SoccerInTennessee

Im not sure whether this thing is truly seeded or not (it obviously appears not to be), but having Hardin Valley and Ravenwood play in a quarterfinal when they are the 3rd and 4th ranked team (online) makes no sense at all. A better draw would have been: Collierville and Hardin Valley Clarksville and Oakland Ravenwood and Dobyns Bennett Houston and Siegel Or something along those lines, but I believe this even puts all teams coming from the same region on opposite sides.

Shaping up for a good tournament, good luck everyone!

Moon dog, I don't think utk is insulting Clarksville. They did luck out. On paper, clarksville, Houston, Ravenwood, and Hardin Valley are the four best teams. 3 of the four are on one side of the bracket while Clarksville is alone on the other. Houston is also undefeated I believe, so they deserved that draw as much as Clarksville. They did luck out by avoiding Hardin valley or Ravenwood in the semis.

Playerscoach, have you watched Houston? You were talking earlier about how good Franklin and Ravenwood were. I know scoreboard watching isn't the best way to evaluate teams but Houston beat Franklin 5-2. I was just curious if you had watched them and thought they looked down. The AAA tournament is going to be great I think. You didn't mention Hardin Valley either who beat Ravenwood. I think a final four of Ravenwood, HV, houston, Franklin, or Clarksville would be some great soccer. Jealous of anyone getting to watch!

Haha, Booger I love the pic! I can't say I've ever seen 21-0. I never said teams don't run up scores. Some do without remorse or let up. I don't agree with that. I think Kee is spot on. There are teams that play that simply don't belong on the same field unfortunately. Again, not condoning every blowout sorry if that was what came across. I highly doubt a team that scored 20 goals played the whole game with 7 or 8 field players. not gonna post more because I don't think your getting what I'm trying to say. Good luck the rest of the year.

Booger, I am not trying to atone for or defend blowouts being okay. I am simply trying to point out that there are more things behind those games that the scoreboards don't tell. Someone mentioned there are plenty of teams and coaches that have never done it. Sure, I agree there are. But the top 5 teams in the state all have at least 10-0 wins. In AAA alone, 10 of the top 11 ranked teams have 8-0+ wins. Again, it happens all the time to a lot of people. I am not in the know about teams that are repeat offenders, but I'll bite on Science Hill and I bet this will go for a lot of them. Science Hill, being in Johnson City, isn't an area littered with soccer talent. Most of the players that are somewhat talented attend science hill. What does that leave for the rest of the area? The drop off in talent for teams they are playing is huge( it's actually probably beyond huge). So big that often times playing your JV, if they are fortunate enough to have one, and a few players down still could result in a lopsided score. Or you could embarrass them other ways by not letting them touch the ball or what have you. I'm clearly the only person, or one of a few, posting who feels this way. I would bet that the majority of repeat offenders are in areas of the state where talent dropoff between the top team and the others is massive. That may or may not be true but that is a trend with the three teams you mentioned. You may have never experienced a game like that, but there are teams who have players that would strike out batting in kickball. This makes playing a soccer game against them very interesting.

playerscoach, I agree that getting up near 20 goals is overly excessive, but you can get close to 10 very easily even with the numerous precautions that are taken. Personally seeing how embarrased a team was by not touching the ball due to possession changed my opinion on a lot of things. Sure, you can dump it back to them and work on defending, but some of these teams don't have players that can even dribble a ball. I only intended to point out how hard of a situation that is, as I'm sure you know. Thanks again.

There were comments that were referencing teams being bullies based on the score with no knowledge of how the game went. I still hold my point. My point is that in the AAA rankings, 5 of the 6 top teams have 10-0 or greater games. It happens a lot. I played in games where we started with 9 players (your suggestion), all JV at that, and it was 5-0 in 15 mins. These were teams we knew were poor ahead of time and left the scoreboard off in order to take time away and so they wouldn't have running knowledge of the score. So again, do you pull off more players, tell them to keep possession, or continue to score? All would be pretty embarrassing for me if I was on an opposing team (playing against 7 players and still losing, not touching the ball for an hour) and have been found to be embarrassing. If a coach has played his JV the whole game, reduced his players to 7-8 on the field, requested that the halves be shortened and a lopsided score still occurs, what else do you want the coach to honestly do? A scoreline isn't the only embarrassing thing that can occur on a soccer field.

People need to realize there is a lot more than meets the eye in these games. I have been a part of games like that as a player and spectator, and they can be hard to avoid and I'll tell you why. Every 10-0+ game I have seen or played in, the starters were played 0 minutes. The JV started and by 20-25 minutes into the game, the players who hardly get minutes in JV games were on the field. That is in addition to pulling 2-3 players off the field in the course of the game and intentionally playing down in addition to cutting the halves down minutes. And 9-0+ plus still happens. You may say, well, just pass the ball around. I was on a team that did that. The opposing 11 players on the other team actually sat down on the field because they couldn't get the ball in a high school game. The coach said to our coach after that that was far more embarrassing for his players than any amount of goals we could have scored, but he understood what we did by not continuing to score. Sure, there are games where a team will play its starters and win like that and it is appalling to me. But, there is the reverse where a coach truly tries to avoid it. And is passing the ball around honestly much better? It's like playing a 80 minute monkey in the middle game, which isn't flattering either. In addition to the games mentioned, I looked at the euro tennessee state rankings. Most of the higher ranked teams have some scores like that. Houston has two 10-0 wins. Ravenwood has a 15-0 win. Clarksville has two 10-0 wins. Franklin has an 11-0. Hardin Valley has the 17-0 mentioned. Knox catholic has a 10-0. USJ has a 10-0 and a 13-0. And honestly, I probably could continue. Looks like a lot of bullies on the block, as well as a lot of coaches that it does happen to, and good ones at that. My point is that this happens A LOT and should be judged on a case to case basis. It took me less than a minute to find those from a single season, so over the years I'm sure it has happened quite often. Don't be so quick to judge coaches like that, it is very harsh and unfair IMO.

If the bias you are referring to is not getting noticed, I agree. But that is not a bias against TN. If you are suggesting that regional, national, and college coaches look at a player and say: well they are from Tennessee so we should stop looking, I vastly disagree. College coaches attend the top level events to see players perform, that is now more ECNL events instead of ODP, regionals, and nationals. The best way to evaluate talent is at those events because you can evaluate division 1 level talent surrounded by other divison 1 talent. Due to ECNL, club soccer doesn't offer the same thing due to an overall weaker pool of talent. Nearly every divison 1 offer I received was through first playing with some of regions 3's best teams in selective showcases, because that's where the best coaches came to evaluate. Naturally, if you play ECNL and are playing at events where ACC coaches attend, you are more likely to be seen. I don't see that as a surprise. I mean look at the national tournament that is getting ready to kickoff. Only 4 teams from the ACC and SEC have sent women's coaches this year. 4! And they are some of the conferences weaker teams at that! That says A LOT about how they feel about evaluating talent in that setting. You may disagree with that, but that's how it is. The old national tournaments, only featuring the 4 region winners, were littered with the best coaches from every school in the ACC and SEC. Again, another example of why winning regionals can no longer be used as a measuring stick. Anyways, good luck in the upcoming season. Sorry Booger for continuing the topic but I felt a need to respond. Thanks.

I'm gonna exit this topic with the statement that this team and players have accomplished a great deal and wish them the best of luck! TN has produced top level talent for a long time, people here know that. US Soccer has a bias to keep TN players off the national team? Can't say I have heard that before. Seeing the number of players that have made national teams from the state in the last 10 years, I don't believe that. I know how ECNL works as well and I know how many good players are in this state. Again, my point that club field is weekend is a fact, not an opinion. Best of luck to everyone in their upcoming high school seasons as well!

Players coach, your initial question asked about Parlow. Everything I said was in response to the original post. If you are referring to only HS play, then sure maybe she is. I get the picture you have some affiliation with the club at the bare minimum so I get your stance, but try and see others opinions as well. As far as best team, you are again asking an unanswerable question as I have said before. Making 3 national tournaments is awesome, but again, ECNL now exists. There are 20 ECNL clubs in region 3. If you honestly think that doesn't weaken the regional tournament A LOT, you are crazy. Teams that even made a regional semifinal in the past did it against everyone. It's not the same. If your still not convinced, look no further than the national team Karlie was called up to play with. Of the 54 pool players, 40 played for ECNL. That's a large majority. 9 of them hail from the traditional region 3 states, 8 of them play ECNL in Texas and Georgia among others. Those are facts that the traditional club regionals and nationals are no longer made up of the strongest teams or players. My point being- winning regionals 3 times is awesome. But who you are doing it against is the problem when trying to compare it to other years. Under the circumstances, it's not possible.

Thanks for the invite! Italy did finish last in their group at the 2010 World Cup, which featured Paraguay, Slovakia, and New Zealand (a very weak group). That makes me nervous as does their roster, but they did have a decent showing at Euros. It is definitely a tough group. I think the England team could turn it around with a lot of the young players, but not holding my breath with that one! I am picking Uruguay and England to get out of the group though. The whole situation with England is so odd to me. They have the talent to do so well. Rooney, Sturridge, Wilshere, Sterling, Ox, Lallana, Barkley, Welbeck all give quality attacking. They have the guys in midfield and defensively as well. Just really perplexing when you see how well they have done recently, or how poorly. I think Belgium could do very well. They have an advantageous group and are loaded with talent. Hazard, Lukaku, Kompany, Dembele.... They are loaded. If Costa is fit for Spain, I don't see a team in the tournament as talented. He adds that finishing touch that Spain hasn't had since Villa and Torres were younger. They were not the same at the confed cup with fabregas playing high in that role at times. I think they are a much different side with a consistent scorer and target up front. With that said, their defenders scare me a bit. But with as much time as they hold the ball, the defenders are not asked to do as much. To me, one of Brazil, Spain, and Germany has to win the tournament.

Rossi has not been included in Italy's final roster, so he will not be at the World Cup. Pirlo can still dictate tempo and be the general in a midfield, but he has lost a step. Italy's talent has aged and is not being filled well enough with youth. Balotelli is a great talent but he is just as likely to score a goal as he is to cause your team to be playing a man down. You never know what you will get with him in terms of attitude and motivation as well. No Montolivo either for Italy. Italy could get out of the group and win a game due to a poor group pairing, but that would be the limit for them in my opinion. England and Uruguay I believe have better sides in that group. If England decides to play an attacking style and use Sturridge, Rooney, Sterling, Wilshere, and others in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 they could have agood tournament. They always have a good team but underperform, maybe this is the year they break out of the funk. Uruguay is talented up front but have some question marks defensively. All that said, I don't see a team outside of Spain, Germany, Brazil and Belgium as a distant 4th having a shot at winning the tournament.

A little late back to the party, but I agree with Rex. For TN to consistently produce top talent, it needs to have an academy. TN can continue to produce good players the way it is now, but ECNL is the future. What a great accomplishment to represent your country for Karlie, that must be an amazing feeling. Again, proceed cautiously with her as the states best female player ever. I know you mentioned Parlow earlier, but for Karlie to ever reach that level is against the odds. Parlow was a state champion in high school, national champion in college, a 2 time winner of the Hermann trophy at NC (the only other multiple winner was Mia Hamm for relevance), a 4 time first team college all-American, an Olympic champion, a World Cup champion, and I'm sure much more. I'm not sure if you realize how good Parlow was, maybe you do. She was one of probably the best 10 women's players in this country, ever. Those are lofty goals to surpass. There have also been at least 5 players in boys and girls soccer over that 10-15 years that have seen youth national team appearances, none of which are seeing full national team action. To the best of my knowledge, none of them even played professionally either. Success early in your soccer is a great thing but it does not indicate that dominance will continue into the future. SomewhereInMemphis mentioned Sullivan, which is a great example. She may not have been seen as much or maybe she just developed later. Players peak at different times. Another example is Mark Sherrod. Never played on a national team, or a regional team I don't believe, and is having great success as a rookie with the Houston Dynamo. Meanwhile you have all these youth national team players who do not even make pro rosters, because they peaked early. It happens all the time. I am not in any way trying to put a damper on anything she has accomplished or am I saying this will happen to her, because the accomplishment is TREMENDOUS and I don't think it will! But proclaiming or expecting her to be the states best player ever at such a young age when you have Cindy Parlow as a measuring stick is a lot to ask of a young player. I hope that she becomes a staple in US teams that win multiple world cups, nothing would make me or the state of TN more excited. The best of luck to her as she continues to grow and represent our state at the highest level!

I agree with reaction here. Flopping is part of the game. If the rule states that play is stopped for an injury and the player must leave, then that will stop some people. Flopping in soccer is in a lot of ways similar to what you see in basketball. It evolved because if you receive contact and don't go down, you a lot of times would not get fouls. Now it has come to occur when there is no contact. Tune into the NBA and watch Griffin, Westbrook, Durant, Ginobli, Parker, and the list goes on. It's the same as what you see in soccer. I don't see their teammates or Ronaldo's and Neymar's, for that matter, getting in their faces and telling them to stop diving or flopping. I would love to see a football, baseball, basketball, lacrosse, or whatever athlete cover over 7+ miles in 90 minutes of action all while being asked to maintain a high amount of thought and skill, with no timeouts to regroup or draw a play. Being able to do all that requires some amount of "toughness". That aside, having a player leave the pitch won't stop diving. It will stop them from rolling around like they are seriously injured when they do dive. Diving is part of the game of soccer, as it is in many other sports. Receivers in football flop to get PI calls, basketball players flop to get to the free throw line, baseball players flop out of the way to sway an ump to call a ball or flop and act like a pitch hit them when it didn't. It is in some way or another in many sports, it's not a problem isolated to "not tough" soccer players.

Tin, I think you and I seem to feel relatively the same about this. Technical ability is the BIGGEST factor in my opinion as well. I won't reiterate what you said, but I strongly agree. The above training regimen you described is grasping for a lot to happen. To make that style work, you have to have a consistent influx of talent. I don't think a public school could do this CONSISTENTLY. There are some private schools that I think could do it, as doing it successfully would attract players. The closest team I have seen play this style, at least when I played, was Christian Brothers HS out of Memphis. From what I know, they get a large portion of club players from the area. As long as drawn lines define where your players are coming from, I wouldn't rely on fitting constantly varying talent into a style of soccer. I think the fact that not many coaches have tried to do this speaks volumes about it. High school coaching has come a long way and as I stated earlier, most I talk to about this say it is near impossible. And many of them have won multiple state championships. I never played against a team, in high school, that had 4 backs comfortable enough technically to play this. I don't think it is realistic to train kids for 2-3 years and then have them only play as juniors and seniors. Again, that's my opinion. My philosophy is that you take your best 11 and put them in the best position to succeed. The next year, you do the same. That may change. If you started 11 seniors that all played club together and had no depth and played possession style, it's unlikely you could do that next year. The talent to do it is not there. You could say this is possible, but I strongly believe it is not. There are some players no matter how well you train them, CAN'T do it. In my humble opinion, high school is strongly suited to fitting talent to formation. Not trying to fit your talent into a set formation.

While some may argue that teams play "possession soccer just for the sake of keeping the ball", I don't see many teams do this. At least at a high level. There are two purposes to keeping possession: 1. The other team can't score when you have the ball (as ridges mentioned). 2. To connect passes and pull the defense out of position, creating better gaps to go forward. A backwards pass is nothing more than a means of opening up a better penetrating pass somewhere down the line. The ultimate goal of this game is to score goals that will never change. Much of Barcelona's possession comes from these two philosophies. When consistently under pressure, Barcelona's back 4 can and has been shown to be exposed. They are, however, fantastic on the ball. If they keep possession, they are not asked to defend as much. The same offensively. Teams often pack it in and play for the counter on Barcelona. A direct style would not work for Barca. The movement side to side pulls players out of position and allows Barcelona to play deeper penetrating passes that can create chances for Messi and company. It is a style that is perfect for them. Even more impressive, and I'm sure Ridges can attest to this as he watches Barcelona a lot, is how quickly they get the ball back. Their players work twice as hard to get the ball back as they do when they have it. Their pressing is awesome to watch. "Tiki-taka" is not played to just keep the ball. There is much more behind that style of play. Tin brings up good points as well. Who is to say one style is better than the other? Bearden is a good example of that, as you brought up. Great teams when the players fit the style and not so good when they don't. That is why I think it is crucial that every season, your tactics and formation suit your players.

Completely understand that!

Again all great reads from my perspective as well! I guess I ramble a bit as well ridges and simply meant to say the Seymour video is irrelevant in terms of it being successful. Sure it was successful against lower teams and some evenly matched, but a lower level team will really struggle beating a better team playing possession soccer. That was really what I was trying to get across. That you can play a possession orientated game but when it comes to knock out games, etc, it's okay to play an uglier brand of soccer to win. Assuming you believe that gives you the best chance to win. Club soccer absolutely has to go this way. The number of youth players that getting ruined through direct play is terrible. Club coaches often put the first two kids to hit puberty up front and play long ball. Looking for nothing more than to win games and collect a check. It is really sad. This stops the entire team from developing. I am not saying everyone is like this, I know from personal experience they are not, but it exists a LOT. Sorry, but if you have waited for a player to develop technically until high school, it is far too late. This stuff should be done from a young age and as I stated earlier, it is not done enough. Other coaches then inherit these players and the parents wonder why the kid is now struggling, etc. They have been scoring 3 goals a game his/her entire life. In business, you hear of the "inertia trap". If you stay pat, eventually you will get passed by companies trying to improve and get better. This is so similar to youth soccer in the US that it is not even funny. And it comes down to a warped view of coaching. I don't think high school coaching needs revamping as much as a lot of people argue (not that any of you have, I'm just rambling again ) We need better coaching from a young age. Teach your backs how to play out of pressure, not to just kick it. Having a technical games allows you to adapt much easier than the other way around. Please above all things make the reason you coach to improve players as footballers and people. No different than teaching: most good teachers in class I have ever had find joy in watching students grow. They are not paid enough and they realize that because they see the value in it. If you want to win games, coach high school or college or Sunday league. Until this occurs in this country, we will remain far behind. Parent influence is a whole new ball of wax. An example I once shared with some parents: Do you think when the Everton youth team subbed Wayne Rooney out of a game his parents asked for a meeting with the coach? Of course not. Demand a high level of coaching and let them do their job. Also, I have had the luxury in playing three tournaments as a youth player in Europe. Between matches, we would walk down the block to a hard court field and play pick up with locals. These courts are everywhere. In America, basketball courts are everywhere. That's a large part of why we are so good at basketball and they are at soccer. Sorry to ramble again, I could talk about all of these topics for days. Happy New Year to everyone!

Ridges, I agree that the true test would be for a top level team to consistently play this style. I never wanted to imply that a team couldn't play this style, I simply meant to say that coaches will adopt tactics they believe will give the team the best chance to win. Whether you think differently about what they choose is another story. I think the Seymour video is honestly fairly irrelevant. In comparison to most of the teams Seymour plays, they are I'm sure much more technical. In comparison to strong teams in the state, Seymour is fairly average. Under high pressure, the success is not the same. Just because a team in a final played more direct doesn't mean they played that way all season either. Chelsea didn't play 10 behind the ball against poor premier league teams the year they won the CL. Teams changed based on who they play, unless you are the best like a Barcelona where everyone is so concerned about you. This relates back to watching a great high school team do it. Anyways, I think we are nitpicking at minor details here in certain instances but it is a great topic to see and read about. I really liked reading your points. In college, we played a very possession oriented game in our conference but we were one of the best teams. Out of conference against some top 25 teams( ACC, Big East, etc teams), we played more reserved. Most successful high school coaches I talk to change their formation and tactics each year based on personnel. In college, you can recruit to play a certain style. In high school you have who walks your hallways. It's hard to consistently play that style. No reason a certain team can't with the right personnel, but it's a tough thing to maintain. And I think only 3 months of training in it is difficult if you have never been exposed to it. Glad to be able to discuss this with everyone!

A move to a different district could cause growth of soccer in that area which would be great! Over the long run the talent level in that area could improve, I could see that as a benefit. But it is going to be very hard to turn lower to mid level teams to a good team in a 3 month season, no matter who you play.

I agree with everything stated, but you have to look at it from a coaches perspective as well. They have a 3 month season to win as many games and advance as far as they can in state. The time frame doesn't allow for much development technically the way club does. Therefore, coaches will resort to any tactics that give their team the best chance to win. Do I completely agree, no. But I can't argue with that either. There have been a lot of teams that have won state championships with lesser teams who park the bus and play long ball with two good forwards. A weak international team with a star up front, which there are a lot of, are not going to try and play toe to toe with Germany or Spain. It wouldn't work. Part of a high school coaches job is to make the best meal with the ingredients they are given, so to speak. Now, if my son or daughter had a club coach with this philosophy, it would be a different story. Club soccer, in my opinion, should not even be concerned about winning games until high school age. Winning should be something that comes as a result of player and team development. If high school had a longer season where the could train together as a team, yes I feel like a prettier brand of soccer should and would ensue. But until that occurs, which it won't, I understand teams taking various tactics to win games.

Tin, I understand your point but still think differently. The competitiveness of the district does not keep the team good, the level of players on the team do. I agree completely, nothing beats competitive district or conference games, but plenty of teams have success with this problem. As I said earlier, plenty of successful examples show that to be untrue. I was on a team years ago that came from a weaker district and lost in a state final. Our out of district games were all very challenging though, and it worked for us. In reality, you still play half a schedule of games out of district if not more. You can play all the teams in Knoxville that are traditionally good. You are a short drive from the tournament in SC and some good teams in GA. The same with middle TN. There are ways around this. Look at NCAA soccer: Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, UMBC, Creighton to an extent, etc. Several teams I played against and watched in college that find success from historically single, sometimes two bid conferences. Yes, a high school team can't travel around the US like NCAA teams can, but there are plenty of good high school level games close by as I stated earlier. Look at Butler and VCU in basketball. The list could continue. Is it the road less traveled? Absolutely. But it is a road that is overcome with talent. In my opinion, you can toss around all kinds of variables but the two most important things to a teams success and consistency is the talent level of the players and the coaching staff. Those put a ceiling on a team's success, not the district they play in.

I don't think it sets them up for failure by any means. Good teams from poor districts go to state and often do well. More important is the quality of team. Oak Ridge still schedules games against those teams, it's not like they don't play them. Then if they advance they play one them again before state. Still plenty of games that you can schedule to test your team.