TotallynotLEO

Probably Tennessee HS if I had to guess. Clinton def Gibbs 34-34 on 4th criteria last night, then wrestled AC for district 3. AC won 48-27. AC and Seymour wrestle today for what I'm sure will be second place behind Pigeon forge in Region 2.

On track, it looks like it was that close. I didn't see any FF at the end. I just took a quick look, but that's what it's showing.

Freco, Fair enough. Apologies if it came off harsher than intended. I don't know how to say it any more clear. Coaching matters. You have great coaches. Support of community/ school/ admin matters. You have great support. Training partners matter, you've got a room full of hammers. Money to travel and facilities. You've got more than 99%. How much does each one of those contribute to the programs success is debatable but what isn't up for debate is that they all matter. At some point the program as a whole sustains itself. It's good enough that people want to be a part of it, so they get there.

Re-read my original post. I'm not throwing shade at Cleveland. You can say I'm recruiting for you, I don't care. I'm just starting observations. It's not any one thing that does it. Over and over again we hear from Cleveland people that the kids or coaches just outwork everyone else as if that's the only thing required. We also hear from the detractors that's it's the money, as if that's the key. I'm saying it requires much more than that to achieve that level of sustainable success. But all are important. Money helps, a lot. So does coaching. So does buy in and dedication by the kids. Support of parents, supporters and school admin. Training partners are huge. It's not just one thing. If you took away any one of those, the program would see a drop. Some areas would have more impact than others, but the point stands.

This is such a stupid take on anything I said. But if you want to use that, by all means let's look at it. It's a country of just over 3 million with wrestling as the most popular sport. Gyms and training centers everywhere, kids start young and are going against hammers from elementary age. It's also cultural to wrestle there. I've spent a great deal of time in the middle east and got to meet people from cultures where wrestling is to them what basketball is to us, only bigger. With that many numbers in that culture of course they're going to churn out great athletes. And they are only poor by your standards. Within their country, they're not. All this is moot anyways. You can't debate the topic so you pull out a strawman argument to conflate talking points. Your response confirms my statement on entitlement.

I've seen Jackson in person, he's legit. I just haven't seen Logan in person much so I was guessing a bit. I meant no disrespect. I wouldn't be surprised to see Davis win, at all. He's a bit unorthodox at times and confuses people, to his advantage.

I feel like we do this every. Single. Year. I'm not hating on Cleveland. It's a lot of things that get them where they are. Years ago I sent one of my kids to a camp there and we've competed there in FS/GR. Let's take a kid from a small school. He's a good, maybe even great athlete. He's motivated and willing to work just as hard as anyone else. He doesn't have the best training partners. Maybe he got 2 or 3 years in a youth program before high school. He did a couple top 100 events and all the local AAU stuff. He gets to high school. He had to roll out mats before practice and roll them up after. Bare minimum facilities and equipment. Decent, but not great coaching. Average to poor training partners. He competes locally in state. If he's lucky he gets to go an in state tournament halfway across the state a couple times a year. He doesn't have the funds or ability to go to any big tournaments. But he's dedicated and works out, a lot. How far does he get? It's likely his parents can't afford to send him year round to camps or out of state tournaments. That's the reality for many if not most high school wrestlers. Now, take the same kid. When he gets to HS he has access to better training partners. Every day in practice he has 3 or 4 team mates that are hammers. Better facilities to practice (more mat time, less time setting up, taking down). Better coaching, even if it's marginally better. His team gets to travel and see there's levels to this stuff. Out of state tournaments against the best. Those things co$t money. More matches against better opponents. Access to better weight room facilities and a program. It's the same kid in both scenarios. Which one is better at the end of his HS career? It's not just one thing. It's not just the money or the coaches. You have to look at it holistically. But each one of those things matters and gives you a better chance. To say that facilities and money don't matter is absurd, they do. So do the other things. Cleveland has all of these advantages in great numbers. It's the same for the private schools. That's why when you say it's just hard work, it falls on deaf ears and makes you look foolish. We do this every year.

You sound very defensive and entitled at the same time. Other coaches do what you're talking about. Driving kids around, long hours, fund raising, sacraficing personal time... your program is in no way unique in that. How are you different? You get transfers. You get ALOT of funding You have the be$t facilitie$

106, 150 and 175 are 50/50 matches. Soddy will get more bonus points on the other matches they are expecting to win. Looking at the line ups, if Flavin or Jenkins drops to 113 for Soddy it'll create more distance for Soddy. There may be an additional 2lb allowance due to inclimate weather.

Soddy is about 20 points better than Signal with full varsity line ups. I'll say 45-24 Soddy.

Dobyns Bennett wins region 1 big school. Science Hill or Jefferson County in 2nd Crockett wins region 1 small school. Probably Tennessee in 2nd place. Halls wins region 2 big school. Maryville in 2nd place Pigeon Forge wins region 2 small school. 2nd place, AC or Seymour. Region 3 big school is Cleveland. Soddy wins everything small school out of region 4. That's about all I know or an willing to predict.

I grew up in Soddy, wrestled for coach Henry in the 80s, Class of '89. Wrestled for Coach Butch Morrow in middle school too. One of my kids went to a Cleveland camp several years ago. I have reason to like and admire both programs but dang it if people in this thread don't make it hard not to hate both.

I agree. I know several kids who are still snowed in right now and are just doing whatever they can at home. I also know several kids who have access to a garage with a 20x20 mat and several partners. It'll be interesting to see how it shapes things. I wonder if Chattanooga area or Nashville area schools are closed any?

It's county by county, depending on your school board policies. Some kids are going to show up in better shape than others.

I know in the East half of the state, everything is still being scrambled due to weather. If schools are closed, they can't host or even practice. During days leading up to an event, if inclimate weather prevents practice, I think kids also get a 1lb allowance, up to 2lbs. If they get to practice the day before, I don't think they do. That may play a role if kids are close on weight or even want to drop, just for district/ regions. I bet you see districts take place and regions the day after. Regional must be completed by 26th January and sectionals by 27th January. Roads are still really bad in many places here in Knox County. I don't expect them to be in school on Monday. Parts of Sevier County and East Tennessee missed the big snow earlier this week but got freezing rain and a couple inches snow last night so who knows what will happen.

DB vs Maryville After watching both, I'd say DB 51-22 Halls vs SH/JC I've only a vague idea on JC and SH. JC seems stronger up top, SH in the lower weights. Halls gets either of them IMO but that's why we wrestle to see.

As a wrestling dad that helps coach part time I can tell you that wrestling parents can be the absolute best but they can also be the absolute worst of the worst to deal with. If the kid fails, it's because you didn't teach them a secret move. Or an easy move that anyone can do. Or , or, or... See post by Justafanof for evidence.

PF hasn't shown their complete lineup yet, only bits and pieces. I've seen most of them at one time or another and they're solid. They've got a couple holes or weak spots but not many. From 120lbs to 215lbs they'll be really good or at least experienced. Seymour is IMO the 2nd best team coming out of that region. They're a tough match up for AC. Where Seymour is weak, AC is weaker. The upper weights for AC are really solid but you can't win a dual with half a line up.

I can still hope can't I? I know you're correct, I'm just wanting to see that match up. I may have to wait until cons as you've said.

As the title says. Some takeaways from duals Saturday at Vandergriff duals at Halls. Some things I saw in no particular order. Last year, Grace had barely half a roster. Not that they've been a power house in D2 but still. This year they've got quite a few kids. Jordan is a good coach and will get them coached up and they'll do good locally. The Mavrov kid at 175lbs for Grace is the real deal. Not saying he wins it but he absolutely deserves to be in the conversation. Holds good position, good pressure on top and is lb for lb one of the strongest kids strength wise in the class. Also hear he is just an amazing young man. Page looks like they've taken a small step back this year. They've got some solid guys but not as many. Maryville has taken a step back. They've got some solid kids here and there but the loss of Peyton Cooper, Michael Coligan, Stadle and Hayden shows. AC beat them in the semis pretty soundly 48-28. I'm pretty sure this was pretty close to full varsity line ups too. Speaking of AC, they beat Crockett straight up, varsity line ups. It was close and looked like a good dual from what I saw. I walked over to watch the 165lbs match between Bingham and Ferrell. The Ferrell kid never really got anything going and was down 10-2 when he got reversed and pinned. DB got the win over Halls. I think both teams are feeling each other out still and trying to get full line ups healthy. I know Halls had 2 maybe 3 varsity guys out. DB had a couple missing too. This should be a fun dual at sectionals and one I am really looking forward to with full varsity line ups. The dual might look different at weights 175-215 at sectionals. Also, Mason Jakob is a killer. I knew he was but seeing him in person, you can tell. He's on another level. Sevier County was present, they've got a ways to go. Same for Powell. Hard to tell much about Pigeon Forge. They brought a few varsity but I think they had 7 or 8 starters up at the Fandetti individual tournament. I think if they bring full varsity, they might have beat DB. I think they're that good. Foreman was with them, I bet he was getting a look at AC and Crockett.

Bingham was leading by 10 and pinned Ferrell from Crockett at the Vandergriff duals.

AC just beat Crocket 39-33 full varsity line ups.

Nice job CowcatcherII. It's tough to keep up with what's going on in the middle and western parts of the state. At least for me it is. Be interested in seeing how Station Camp does, they look tough. David Crockett has surprised some people. Everyone knows SD has the dual title locked up, so there's no excuse if they don't. The way that area is growing I won't be surprised to see them in big school soon. From what I've seen Region 1 will be DC and Tennessee. Region 2 is for sure PF and probably Seymour. Region 4 we know is SM and SD. At individual sectionals, 165lbs will be the one to watch at sectional 1A.

Didn't really see where many of these other kids met at that tournament. You might want to look up Riley Silk at 150lbs from Clinton. Solid kid. I watched Sam Comes from Seymour. Kid is tough. He had a pretty good match going with the Karns kid before he stuck him. That was his only "test" of the day. He wrestles really hard but not out of control. Another thing, and its hard to explain but although he's physical and wrestles hard, you can tell he knows when to back it off. I watched him against a couple kids he was clearly several levels ahead of. He'd go hard, but not in a mean way. He took care not to injure anyone, while he was being physical. Hard to explain. Just seems like the kind of kid you root for.

From the Maryville open last weekend. Campbell Dec Morales 6-5 Campbell MD Steele 12-3 Bingham (AC) pinned Campbell Hayden Simmons wrestled 157lbs. Just some more info since I was there. I'll look and see what else I saw there may apply. Thanks Cowcatcher for the work!