whistleblower

I could not tell you anything about that game because I did not see it. Maybe everything fell into that official's lap and into his 'primary area' (official speak). I have had games where I have blown the majority of the whistles because everything happened to happen in front of me, again in my primary area. Also, I have had games where I have not blown my whistle until 2nd or 3rd quarter because nothing happened in my primary area. If the official was calling across the floor or out of his area alot you may have a point however, if all of his whisltes happened 'in his primary area', then it may be he was doing his job well! Lastly AGAIN, officials are accountable! We are graded and evaluated during the season many times. The officials at the state tournament are evaluated every game. People also forget that the TSSAA works FOR THE SCHOOLS. The schools vote on legislation and such and it's board members are made up of high school principals. So yes, the TSSAA office is very accountable to the schools!

Some associations have done away with the rating system. I believe you are still allowed to scratch officials. When you scratch an official, it means you will not get them for any regular season game that year. It does not guarantee any tournaments (Thanksgiving, Christmas, District, or Region) that you may get that official. Again, I can assure you that officials are held accountable if/when they mess up. The supervisors hold the pen and many of them will use it. This can be debated all day long but in the end, no coach or very few fans will ever agree with an official when they make a call against their team. The officials that can handle calling a game are the ones that wind up going the fartherest and are the ones the coaches like the best.

You have just summed up the rating system which is used in many associations. The coaches rate the officials at the end of the season. They also have the ability to scratch an official as well. Only in major college conferences do officials get a difference in game fee and that is due to years of service in the conference. You would need to keep things as consistant as possible on the high school level. Trust me on this one. Just because both coaches said an official did a good job does not mean they did. Also, just because both coaches said the official did not do a good job means they did not! You would have some coaches running all over officials and unfortunately, some officials allowing coaches to 'get away with murder'. A better method of rating officials has been discussed for many years and it keeps coming back to the rating system used today. It is the fairest method out there. Between the coach's rating and the supervisors ratings, what we have today is the best thing going in high school athletics.

We, as officials, understand coach's fears and worries. Some associations allow you, as a coach, to rate officials. You can 'scratch' officials which means "I don't want that idiot ever in my games this year"! I am talking about on the high school level. Jr. High coaches do not rate officials. You do have a say in the process. You have a supervisor, or several of them, who you need to use. Yes they assign officials to games, but remember they work for TSSAA. They are there to work with you as well. You send them a tape or meet with them and I'll assure you that you will get some feedback. We get graded by our supervisors as well. They observe us several times each year as well as watch tape of us. Officials do put alot of time in to the season. Meetings, camps, travel are all very time consuming. Granted, maybe not as much as several coaches but there is alot of time put in more than you would think. As far as the open book exam goes, it is only used to see if you have some resemblance of knoweledge of the rules. It means nothing after that. Most employment places have some type of 'test' they administer to see that you have a brain. Once you join an association, and pay your dues, you get with it in the rule book and many associations have quizzes they give to make sure officials stay in the book. Also, at meetings, rules, and applications of rules, are discussed quite often.

Get an application from the TSSAA. I believe you still have to get a recommendation from a principal, coach, or another official, not sure about that one still. After the application, you will have to pass an open book test (yes it is open book but don't read anything into it). Then you pay your dues and join a local association, where you pay more dues. You will have to buy your uniforms. Several associations have clinics which will train young officials before the season starts. You will work middle school, 9th grade, and JV games the first year or two and if you have the ability, you will get moved to the high school list to work high school games. You also have to attend camp, once every 3 years if you want to be eligible to work any tournament games at all. There are mandatory meetings you must attend during the season too. Anybody can join up and go through the process. They are not going to turn anybody down!

Yankees8589, let me see if I can answer your questions. 1. Gene Menees is Asst. Exc. Director at TSSAA. He is in charge of Basketball for TSSAA. He is also in charge of officials for the State Tournament. He is from Nashville and his office is at the TSSAA office in Hermitage, TN. 2. As was mentioned earlier, each supervisor of each association submits a list of officials to Gene for consideration for the state tournament after Thanksgiving. Gene will travel the state observing the officials at ballgames. Also, he will watch tape sent to him of games involving those officials. He will watch someone several times, in person or on tape, if he feels they are ready for the state tournament. If he does not like the way someone is calling a game, they are taken off the list and he goes to the next ones. It is that simple. Many officials are 'watched' for several years before they are selected for the state tournament. They also have called several sub-state games and have been seen in camp by most of the supervisors across the state. There is an invitational camp that an official has to attend, recommended by a supervisor, before he/she is considered for the state. 3. The style of play is slightly different in parts of the state. It is still basketball and the officials selected to work the state tournament have seen different styles of play from the many ballgames they have worked that year and previous years. I'm sure the up-tempo style seen in Memphis is seen up in East TN by the officials at points of the season. Also, many of these guys also call college ball as well so they definately see it there. 4. Each supervisor from each association has some say about their officials. If the supervisor does not recommend them, Gene won't look at them. So yes, the association does have a say. The ultimate final decision rests with Gene Menees as for who works the state tournament in boys and girls. I definately would not call him a power broker. If you can call and have met the criteria up to that point, all is well. If not, your not! 5. There are 12 total officials selected to work the girl's tournament and 12 more to work the boy's tournament. Also, don't forget the Division II tournament, at Lipscomb. There are generally at least one from each association selected to work each tournament. Some bigger associations like Memphis, Nashville, and Chattanooga may send 2 to one tournament and 1 to each of the others. Some of the smaller associations may only get to send 1 official total to 1 of the 3 tournaments. It is definately a representation from all parts of the state for each tournament. 6. There are several criteria, from what I and others have gathered, for who Gene Menees selects to call a game in the state tournament. First and foremost, an official cannot call a game in which a team, from his area that he normally sees in the regular season, is playing. An example is an official from Memphis cannot call a game, at all, with a team from Memphis that he may see during the regular season. Also, each tournament is made up of officials who have worked the state tournament before and some who it is their first time. A balance of that is needed as well. You really don't want 3 first timers in a game together. The officials will call 1 or 2 games in a day, depending on schedules. It is pretty much random to see what fits well together for each day's matchup. The officals get their assignments the night before for the next day. 7. I believe for the sub-state games, the officials were paid $60.00 per game plus milege for travel. For the state tournament, they are paid about that much, maybe a few dollars more, each game, plus the TSSAA puts them up in a hotel for the week. They get a per-diem for meals each day as well. Remember, these people have regular jobs they have to take off of for at least Tuesday thru Saturday, as well as leaving families behind in many cases. The TSSAA takes care of them. 8. Each official is evaluated in each game of the tournament. Each morning of the tournament, they have a meeting and discuss any situations or plays that need to be talked about. The assignments made on Friday and Saturday are reflective of the officials' work on Wed and Thu. On Saturday, only 9 of 12 officals will work in the finals while the other 3 will be stand by officals. Just because an official works the single A game does not mean he was "7th, 8th, or 9th" best. It depends on the matchups and who works well together. Also, sitting up in the stands, are usually a group of supervisors who are taking their own notes on the officials and they are asked sometimes for their input. It is a process! I can assure you that nobody is selected to work who has 'kissed butt' or anything like that. Quite simply, if you can call a game well, have experience, and have met the criteria, you have a good chance of going to the state tournament sometime in your lifetime. Again, it is due to merit and nothing more. It is an honor to get to go and you do not want to mess it up at all. People believe it is a conspiracy but it is not. When you get that far, everyone disagrees more with the calls made. It is part of the game! I firmly believe the TSSAA does not care who wins or loses a game at the State Tournament. Everything is done fair and justified along the way. Hope this clears alot of the mess up!

Interesting!! She got a technical in last year's semi-final game too.

What was the technical on the Upperman bench for? What happened?

Thats ok gottaloveit, there are many things that 95% of the fans out there don't understand either. Just glad to give some perspective on it. The rule book is simple, it is how it is enforced that gets people in trouble. Remember, we have a split second to make a call while people in the stands have all night to debate over the call. Honestly, 99.9% of the calls I make, I don't have a problem with after a game. Once in a long while I may call something where I tell myself "If I'd held my whistle just a second ...". I've always thought it interesting that a team can shoot 35% from the field, make 10 of 15 from the free throw line, have 14 turnovers, foul the other team's shooter 8-10 times, and lose by 9 yet they want to blame the loss on the referees over one 'wrong' call. I have refereed many games and have yet seen one in which a referee's call makes a team lose.

wildstang, Let me give you my take on fans from a referee's standpoint. To sum it all up, I don't care what they say or do as long as they stay in the stands and don't curse or throw things. It is funny sometimes when I see people who's sole purpose at a ballgame is to 'abuse' referees. There seems to be some people out there with nothing better to do with themselves than to yell at referees during a game. It can be the most obvious call in the world and some people are going to go nuts and say something stupid! They really need a life! Due to contrary belief, we don't set out to 'control' the game. I despise that word. Most of us are under the belief that the teams ought to be in 'control' of the game. All we are there to do is to call what is in front of us. We want the teams to decide the game and us make sure nobody gets an unfair advantage with something.

Can't help you b/sportsfan, sorry. As far as the player control calls for me it is real simple. We are taught to referee the defense. Very simply put, watch the defense and you will be right. If the defense is there and it is torso to torso, it is a player control or if the offensive player passes off, it is a run over, still an offensive foul. From what I have heard on this thread, the officials were calling charges in both games so it sounds to me that things were 'consistant' as everyone loves to yell. The play where a pull up shot takes place, the airborne shooter has a right to come down in the same spot. If you watch the defense, it should tell you what is going on. A big misconception is the defensive person has to be still, it is a false statement. All the defense has to do is to establish a guarding position. The defense can still be moving! Hope this helps

Mr.Hustle, Believe me it happens! There are many teams that are TAUGHT to play defense with your feet, don't try to block shots but put both hands straight up, don't reach, and go straight up on rebounds. For some reason, girls are worse than guys at reaching and grabbing. If/when you have two good teams that play smart, it is beautiful. It is when you have two teams playing the same grab, hold, push stuff that turns a game into a free throw contest. I have had several games lately where both teams are playing great defense and not doing the silly stupid stuff. We never shot the bonus all night. Then you have the other side where two teams are playing goofy and all it seems we do is shoot free throws. So yes Mr. Hustle, I have seen it many times. It all depends on how the teams have been coached!

What an interesting post!! What can you do about it? Send your money to TSSAA 3333 Lebanon Road Hermitage, TN 37076 , pay your dues, take a test, join a local association, pay more dues, buy a couple of uniforms, take more tests, go to camp (after you pay more money) and attend 7-10 meetings, and become a referee! They won't turn you down so "all of the people out there that would do these jobs" can do so! I have never gone into a ballgame, nor have I ever heard of an official state "we need to screw ______ team tonight" or "______ team needs to lose this game". It just don't happen!! Every call we make, half of the gym will disagree with it. That is part of the game. All we do is call what we are given and move on. We can't help it if one team is grabbing, hacking, and fouling all of the time while one team is playing great defense and playing smart! Just because one team has fouled 8 times does not mean the other team has to have 8 fouls on them! The game is to be called fair, not even!! This time of the year, the game is played where one team wins and moves on while the other team loses and goes home. I can assure you, the referees don't have a care of who wins or loses, especially since they come in from different parts of the state during region and sub-state games. One last thing, why would you want to punish a team because of their fans behavior? Once the ball is tossed up, I, as a referee, am only concerned with two teams! It is up to game management to take care of the rest. We have enough things to worry about as it is! Now if some fan gets out of line while I am close by, yes I can have him/her removed if needed. I have seen a whole section of fans ejected because the section was cursing. Just have fun and cheer your team on.

Gov Man and Heyitsme are correct about slapping the backboard. Had one several weeks ago where a player shot a layup and another player slapped the backboard on the other side of the rim. Not anywhere near the player or the ball. If he would have made any attempt for the ball, especially on the shooter's side of the rim, nothing would have been called. Concerning the 'Hanging on the rim', here it is summed up. Nobody is allowed to grasp or hang on the rim unless you are preventing possible injury. An example of this is a player who stays on the rim because another player is under him. Hope this clears this up!

In order to become a TSSAA referee, you must: 1. Take an open book test and pass it. 2. Join a local association, about $25.00 in dues each year. State dues are about $30.00 each year too. Along with buy a uniform ($100 - $150 for starters) 3. The local association will assign you jr. high, 9th grade, & B-Team games until they feel like you are ready to move to the high school list. Usually at least 3-5 yrs. 4. You must attend a TSSAA sponsored camp in order to move up. Held in the summertime at $175.00 and last several days. Also, the TSSAA requires you to attend a camp once every 3 years in order for you to have a chance at post season tournaments. Don't forget about the closed book test you have to pass in order for you to have a chance at post season tournaments. 5. When the supervisors feel like you are ready for high school ball, you get moved up. Dues increase as well. 6. Before and during the season, there are local meetings which are held as more training. These meetings are required. Usually between 6 - 10 meetings. Some associations have additional training days for people with 5 yrs or less experience before the season starts. This pretty much sums up the requirements. Officials are watched each year by supervisors during games and graded / critiqued on their performance. Also, coaches "rate" each official at the beginning and end of the season. Anybody that thinks they can do it, just sign up, pay your dues, and have at it! They are always looking for new people.

BigWes summed it up exactly right! !

PHargis, you and I are having the same type conversation many of us would have in a ballgame. The only way you would get T'd would be if you got animated or very sarcastic! There are really no grey areas. When I say "talk to players", it's basically just reminding them that you are there watching them. Especially post players! However, if at any time of the game, someone commits a foul, it is called! A foul is a foul! Like what is widely known, everyone wants to watch the kids play and if our talking to them helps them out then so be it. And if a coach ever asked me to stop talking to his players, I would comply with his / her wishes! I have never had it happen before! If he/she wants fouls called, fouls would be called!

I can only speak for myself and I'd say the majority of officials....... PHargis, you are right that the game is for the kids and we greatly understand that. I will talk to a coach when he/she has something to say to me (asking about a foul, violation, or a general question) or when I need help from a coach about something. If we are having a problem with a player, if I tell the coach almost always he/she will take care of it before I have to. Many coaches love the two way communication. Bottom line, you ask nice, I reply nice! Greenvillefan, I will talk to a head coach who is male, female, white, black, red, blue, etc.!! That is the best answer I can give you! Wormy1, many referees use the "preventative officiating" in their ballgames. We will talk to the players and try to talk them out of fouling or doing something dumb. Things such as "keep your hands off" or "don't body up" makes a game go smoother. Many coaches and players like it when you let them know what is going on and will listen to you. However, you can only talk so much and when a player don't listen, you have no choice but blow the whistle

Most of us will talk to / with coaches all night long as long as a coach is talking to us and not yelling, shouting across the floor, using hand gyrations, etc.. If a coach gets to the whining part or personal part of it, the conversation stops on our part. I personally will talk all night long with a coach as long as the conversation is in the right way. Their has to be conversation between a coach and officials all game long, but when a coach takes it to another level, the conversation is over. There are many coaches who do a good job in communicating with officials. However, I will say there are some coaches that absolutely refuse to handle communication in a positive way. They are determined to yell and use their hands at you yet are the first to cry that you won't talk to them. Hope that helps!

Wow, where do I start? I know that when we make a call, it is not going to be popular with at least half of the gym. Rightfully so, fans are going to cheer for their team and go against any and all calls against their team, and we (officials) understand that! We are going to do the best job possible knowing that people are going to be insulting, rude, and ignorant of the rules. I have been in ballgames where both teams were not fouling much at all, been in games where both teams were killing each other and we were calling fouls every other second (and people were yelling to 'let them play'). I've been in ballgames where one team was playing great defense (not fouling) while the other team was hacking, snatching, & grabbing every play (and people were yelling about the fouls being uneven). Fouls are not going to be even, fouls should be fair! I cannot help that one team is playing great while the other is fouling a bunch. I cannot help that one team is shooting the bonus while the other team is no where near it. I cannot help that one team has shot 20 free throws (because the other team keeps fouling on shots) while the other team has shot very few (because the other team is playing great defense and not fouling). I understand people's frustration to some extent. When a team commits no turnovers, hits 100% of their shots, and commits no turnovers and loses, I'll listen to the "referees lost the game for us". One last thing, I referee because I love the game and enjoy it. Contrary to belief, I don't make much money doing it (after buying uniforms, gas, etc.). I personally could care less what is said from the stands, I know the truth and tune you out, however be very careful what you yell. I dare say if I went to your job and yelled at you the things that are said at a ballgame you would get fighting upset or try to call the police on me.

Spy, go get you a whistle, a striped shirt, black slacks, black shoes, a jacket, pay your dues, take the test, and put a full tank of gas in your car THEN go referee and tell us how it really is. No official goes out to shaft a team! An official's shirt has a black stripe on it and an white one. That means they are to be even for both. Referees referee the game in front of them! Geeker is right on it! Besides, I'd be willing to bet you would even fail the rules test so there is no need to take this conversation any further!

The whistle sounded after the interception? A roughing the passer penalty would have given the ball back to the offense anyways. Not sure why the defense retained possession of the ball on that one. You cannot ignore ANY personal fouls, especially a roughing the passer on an interception!

Ok guys, here is the ruling. Since it was a forward pass (considered a loose ball play), the inadvertant whistle, according to the rule, would have automatically given the ball back to the offense, and the down replayed. Since there were two personal fouls, one on each team, you cannot ignore them either. In my humble rule book knowledge, the the down would have been replayed, due to the loose ball inadvertant whistle. Since both teams committed 15 yd personal fouls against each other, unless they were inside the 30yd. line (where you would penalize them in order of their happening and mark off the yardage accordingly). However, the roughing the passer also carries an automatic 1st down with it. So in conclusion, the offense gets the ball back at the same spot, replay the down but it will now be 1st down for the offense and the official gets scratched for causing all of this mess in the first place!!!!

I love Wes's answer!! "Sounds like team A fouled too much"!! Nowhere does it mention in the rule book that all fouls and free throws have to be equal for both teams! Just because A fouls does not mean B gets the next foul! Could it have been that A kept fouling on shots, sending B to the line often while B played great defense and fouled very little?? I have seen many games where one team is hacking, slapping, and grabbing all over the court while the other team is playing great defense, going straight up on shots, and keeping their hands off the other team. Should they be penalized?? Of course not!! People yell about the fouls or foul shots being "uneven"!! Simply put, one team is fouling a bunch and the other team is playing great defense. If you don't slap, grab, or hack, you don't have any problems!!

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! After a held ball situation, Team A has the arrow. A1 is given the ball out of bounds and A1 violates because of a 5 second count. By rule, Team A loses the ball AND the possession arrow. It is now set to B for the next alternating possession. Any violation by team A during a alternating possession throw in is the only way a team loses it's turn under the proceedure. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates. Rule 6-4-5 states: "The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow.