Title 9

[zeroedge]

You know, I would NEVER go about this title IX thing if I knew it would hurt our boys teams, but at our school it can't hurt them because they already have EVERYTHING!  We would not be taking anything from them!

 

Our football team has a football stadium with a fieldhouse for game night and they have a brand new practice field with a brand new weight room.  (which I'm glad they have!)

 

Our boy's soccer team and our girls soccer team share a field.  (that's ok too, even though softball existed at PHS way before those two did)

 

Our baseball team has a BEAUTIFUL field with lights, concession stand, bleachers, and a brand new score board (which was donated by Burks Beverages).

 

Our softball team has NOTHING!  They have to play at the city park and share the field with the public and the t-ball teams.  We have to get it ready at the beginning of the year with NO help from the city.  We once asked for help to make repairs to the infield but they refused.  We buy ALL the chalk, we drag the field and we maintain all year until our season is over.

 

There is NO way our school is in compliance with title IX! 

 

Does this sound fair to any of you?

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No it is not fair. Title IX was the best thing that happened to girls.

[Bleacherbum]

Okay, first I will say that I wish to not get flammed on this board for what I am about to say, so please read the entire post and think about it before replying in anger.  Title IX is the biggest load of garbage that I have ever heard of.  When I was a high school baseball player, we were not allowed to put up lights, a new fence, or make any renovations to our field with the money that we had raised (on our own), because the ladies' softball team did not have enough money to make renovations as well.  However, once both programs had sufficient funds (both raised by themselves), then both programs could start constuction.

 

If you have ever really looked into Title IX, then you will quickly realize that all it honestly does is ruin sports programs for male athletes.  I realize that some people might stop reading at this point, but please read on.  The point of Title IX is NOT supposed to be to make the programs equal by holding the boys back, or by cutting the mens' programs.  It is SUPPOSED to build up the womens' programs, but it doesn't do that.  There needs to be something better in place other than Title IX, because it's hurting the mens' programs, and not really helping the womens' teams at all (across the spectrum).

 

After I am finished playing college baseball, I am wanting to get into coaching softball.  Therefore, I really want to see something put into place that is better than Title IX.  The girls aren't being brought up to a higher level, but the boys are being brought down.  Title IX is a complete joke in my opinion, because it solves absolutely nothing except for legal reasons to solve financial problems by cutting programs, NOT building new and better ones like it is supposed to do.  When I become a softball coach, I want my girls to have what they deserve to have, but I do not want it to come at the expense of the boys' teams.  Title IX needs to be revamped, redrawn, or redone.  Because whatever they have in place no isn't helping anyone...

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I have to disagree with you in your statement that title IX has not brought up womens sports. The level of competition in many sports has upgraded because of title IX. More scholarships are being offered, which made the ladies have something to play for. The availability of these scholarships encouraged the girls to practice harder, to play more, and be involved in more travel related competition. Since title IX, girls basketball, softball, volleyball, etc. has tremendously gotten better all over the state. Now if they had equal facilities, who knows how good they could get.

[illpete23]

Building the womens' programs is what I am for, and when that occurs due to Title IX then that is great. But what happens when an AD is pressured by Title IX to make a decision, and their decision is to cut programs instead of build new ones? What happens when instead of having equal facilities, there are none for either squad? Title IX can work when the right people get behind it, but there needs to be something better, something more. I would like to see something that protects the mens' teams, while helping the womens' programs even more.

 

I agree that a lot of girls have been helped because of Title IX, but there have also been a lot of people hurt because of the decisions that third parties have made due to Title IX. There are too many loopholes that can be worked around, and too many feminists lawyers shutting down mens' programs, which isn't the answer to the male chauvanists (sp?) that existed from the beginning of organized sports. Sadly, there have been some cases in which this has happened, and Title IX opens the door for that. I'm not saying that it was right in the past for women to not be allowed to play sports, because that was wrong. I feel that women should have been allowed to, just the same as men. However, that is not what happened, but females can play now, and I will support them. But I cannot support a law/act that is supposed to support womens' sports which is so weak compared to what COULD BE in place for womens' sports. Until then, or girls will have to work with what they have been given.

[Stan Ross]

TITLE IX, FEMINISM AT ITS BEST!!!

[illpete23]

To the board I would like to apologize, because I did not intend for my comments about a few feminists to spill over into a subsequent post in all caps...that is not what I meant...

[swingaway]

Building the womens' programs is what I am for, and when that occurs due to Title IX then that is great.  But what happens when an AD is pressured by Title IX to make a decision, and their decision is to cut programs instead of build new ones?  What happens when instead of having equal facilities, there are none for either squad?  Title IX can work when the right people get behind it, but there needs to be something better, something more.  I would like to see something that protects the mens' teams, while helping the womens' programs even more.

 

I agree that a lot of girls have been helped because of Title IX, but there have also been a lot of people hurt because of the decisions that third parties have made due to Title IX.  There are too many loopholes that can be worked around, and too many feminists lawyers shutting down mens' programs, which isn't the answer to the male chauvanists (sp?) that existed from the beginning of organized sports.  Sadly, there have been some cases in which this has happened, and Title IX opens the door for that.  I'm not saying that it was right in the past for women to not be allowed to play sports, because that was wrong.  I feel that women should have been allowed to, just the same as men.  However, that is not what happened, but females can play now, and I will support them.  But I cannot support a law/act that is supposed to support womens' sports which is so weak compared to what COULD BE in place for womens' sports.  Until then, or girls will have to work with what they have been given.

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Look , you are certainly allowed to your own opinion but your thinking is one sided. Before 1972 sports were only meant for men. This was most evident in professional sports and college sports. Society only really recognized men playing and refused to fund women sports because they choose to put all the money in male sports. This gave very little money for women to budget with and more money for men. In other words, women where being sold short. Academically women were also being discriminated. Many colleges refused to accept women into their programs simply because the applicant was a female. Scholarships were being denied to women because colleges saw no future in women. Men were once again given first preference. The U.S. government saw a problem and consequently passed a law to attempt to stop the discrimination. In 1972 Congress passed a law called, “Title 9,” which ensures gender equity. Title nine states, “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subject to discrimination under any educational programs or activity receiving federal financial assistance.”(NCAA)

 

Title Nine is enforced in high schools, and colleges that receive federal money. This means that the schools are not using their money like many people think. Before Title Nine the money given to the athletic department could be distributed however they pleased. Now under Title Nine the money going to athletics and education has to be divided in half. In athletics, half of the money goes to the men’s department and half goes to the women’s department. The Men and Women athletics are in two different departments, in no way do they work with each other, they have different people functioning them, each department chooses what sports they want to have, and each departments budget’s there own sports. In no way are the women’s and men’s departments one. Scholarships that are also provided by federal money is also divided in half and given to each department. In essence anything that is given to sports whether it is money or benefits it is divided in half for both women and men.

 

Now this is where many people do not understand and take Title Nine out of proportion. How each department decides to spend their budget is completely up to them. If the men’s department wants to have ten, fifteen, or five sports that is their decision. They have to realize that however many sports they choose to have, they have to budget those sports within their budget. So, if they choose to have a lot of sport teams then they have to distribute the money among those sports more and that means each sport gets less money. This goes with scholarships as well. Same goes for the women’s athletic department, they may choose whether they want five, ten, or fifteen sports. They also have to budget within the amount they are given. However most men’s athletics choose to have a football team. Football teams have eighty-five full scholarships, and millions of dollars in budgeting. This amount of money takes a large portion out of the men’s athletic departments’ budget. That is why many men’s departments cut many of their less popular sports because they choose to use their money in football. Women do not have football therefore they can budget for more sports. This is why a women’s soccer team can have more scholarships then a men’s soccer team. The men’s athletic department is giving eighty-five full scholarships to football, so they have to take from another sport which would be men’s soccer. Many people believe that the women’s soccer team is taking scholarships from the men’s soccer team. This is false, where the men’s department is cutting one sport they are putting that money into another existing sport. The budgeting issue is simply a matter of where the money is being chosen to go.

Many athletic departments admit that football takes up all the money that funds the smaller sports. However, most people make the assumption that college football brings in revenue. Really, only 19% of football programs bring in revenue. The other 81% of football programs actually put the department into a deficit (Football grabs stronger hold on purse strings). For example, the University of Oregon is in a 1$ million dollar deficit from this year. This actually took more money away from their other male sports such as tennis, soccer, and swimming. The women’s sports team certainly did not rob this money from them as many people claim. Someone would wonder how a team would go in deficit after sponsorship, fans, alumni, and ticket sells. Well, many college coaches make anywhere from $75,000 to 3 million a year. Also stadiums cost in the millions to build and to manage them is also expensive. Football needs a $500,000 recruiting budget, and have rosters that sometimes run 200 players deep. The last time I checked you only needed 11 players on the field to play. The average roster in college football is 124 players, and it cost $3,816 dollars to fund each one of the players. Also the equipment, doctor’s bills, coaches, tutors, weight room, and support staff only add to the budget. It is easy now to see why the men’s athletic budget seems so small. This is why men’s athletics cuts smaller, less popular sports, so they can fund the big sport. Many men athletic departments were asked why they choose not to take some of the 85 full scholarships from football and distribute them to other sports. Their response was that they needed to stay competitive in football. It is estimated that if a football team were to cut 11 walk-ons then they would have enough money to fund a wrestling team for a whole year. Instead they choose to keep the walk-ons. Instead of blaming Title 9, people should blame football.

 

In a result of Title 9 there has been positive effects both on men and female. In 1972 there were 31,852 college female athletes, in 2001 it was recorded that there were 150,916 college female athletes. As for men in 1972 there were 172,447 college male athletes, and in 2001 3,921,069 male athletes (Title 9). There is a major jump in the number of female participants since Title 9 was enacted. The men also increased, which denies anything about title 9 preventing men from playing. If Title 9 was not enacted the numbers would have stayed relatively the same as for the year 1972.

Before Title 9 female athletics received only 2% of overall athletic budgets, and athletic scholarships. That means there would be only one full scholarship for the women’s tennis team. If a law was not implemented to solve the problem then society would have continued to exclude women from sports. Women sports would not be in existence right now. Even Julie Foudy on the Women’s national soccer team stated, “If it were not for Title 9 I would not be playing soccer right now.”(Zabarenko) This is very true. If one was to look at a third world country that still goes by tradition, one would notice that there is still very little women athletes. Now when one looks at the U.S. it is obvious that we are leading in women athletes and professional teams. The reason we are is because our government has created an opportunity for women to further themselves in sports.

 

 

According to the Wall Street Journal, 79% of Americans are in approval with Title Nine. It all makes sense, if half of the American tax payers are women then half of the tax paying dollars should go to benefit other women. It is not fair for 98% of tax paying money to go only to men. In athletics both women and men are getting their equal half for equal opportunity. Simply because the men are having a hard time budgeting does not mean we have to give them more. If this happens their would be no equality. Men’s departments would have more sports and more players then the women’s department. Nothing would get solved by just giving them more money. Title Nine is serving its purpose well, and should continue to stay in effect.

Edited April 6, 2005 by swingaway

[slr52]

Swingaway,

 

Thanks for the information in your post. I'm curious about your figures. You show an increase of women in sports over a 29 year period from 31,858 to 150,916 for a 4.7 increase. Increasing the participation almost five times certainly makes the argument for Title IX. Then you site the men's increase from 172,447 to 3,921,069 for a 22.7 increase. Is there a typo on the number of men in 2001? That number is huge.

 

Thanks for any clarification.

[frhspurplefan]

Nashville Attorney Phil Davidson assisted Hixson in getting the new softball field.  He is an advocate for women's softball and a great guy.

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[swingaway]

Swingaway,

 

Thanks for the information in your post. I'm curious about your figures.  You show an increase of women in sports over a 29 year period from 31,858 to 150,916 for a 4.7 increase.  Increasing the participation almost five times certainly makes the argument for Title IX.  Then you site the men's increase from 172,447 to 3,921,069 for a 22.7 increase.  Is there a typo on the number of men in 2001? That number is huge.

 

Thanks for any clarification.

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I got the facts from a paper written on the subject and the source is listed below, I will recheck the number.

 

 

The facts came from this source:

“Title 9.” www.womenssportsfoundation.org. National Coalition for Women and Girls in Education. June 2002. 15 Apr. 2003

Edited April 6, 2005 by swingaway

[Let'em Play]

Not fair, in the least bit.  I'm all about equality, girls having the same privileges as boys, BUT, when the baseball team/parents, etc. work to put up an indoor hitting facility, raising all the money themselves and donating their time and effort...why should it not be theirs?  And, in this case, the softball team was asked if they wanted to contribute...they did not.  Now, the word "Baseball" has been removed from the outside of the building and the building is used by both baseball/softball.  Again, I do support the girls and their programs, but come on, if the baseball program/parents contribute, the girls should as well.  Fair is fair.

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exactly...if the baseball team takes time out of their own schedule and work hard to raise money it should be THEIRS they shouldnt have to share it...the softball team can raise money just like the baseball team and they can have THEIR OWN too...its not fair to baseball teams that work hard to be punished by having to share something when the softball team just sits back and benefits from it...

 

Okay, first I will say that I wish to not get flammed on this board for what I am about to say, so please read the entire post and think about it before replying in anger.  Title IX is the biggest load of garbage that I have ever heard of.  When I was a high school baseball player, we were not allowed to put up lights, a new fence, or make any renovations to our field with the money that we had raised (on our own), because the ladies' softball team did not have enough money to make renovations as well.  However, once both programs had sufficient funds (both raised by themselves), then both programs could start constuction.

 

If you have ever really looked into Title IX, then you will quickly realize that all it honestly does is ruin sports programs for male athletes.  I realize that some people might stop reading at this point, but please read on.  The point of Title IX is NOT supposed to be to make the programs equal by holding the boys back, or by cutting the mens' programs.  It is SUPPOSED to build up the womens' programs, but it doesn't do that.  There needs to be something better in place other than Title IX, because it's hurting the mens' programs, and not really helping the womens' teams at all (across the spectrum).

 

After I am finished playing college baseball, I am wanting to get into coaching softball.  Therefore, I really want to see something put into place that is better than Title IX.  The girls aren't being brought up to a higher level, but the boys are being brought down.  Title IX is a complete joke in my opinion, because it solves absolutely nothing except for legal reasons to solve financial problems by cutting programs, NOT building new and better ones like it is supposed to do.  When I become a softball coach, I want my girls to have what they deserve to have, but I do not want it to come at the expense of the boys' teams.  Title IX needs to be revamped, redrawn, or redone.  Because whatever they have in place no isn't helping anyone...

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exactly!

[wpasi]

I am trying to find out if this case would be held under the Title IX standards. In the school system that my children attend the football team and boys soccer teams are provided with a field and field house to use. The girls softball and soccer teams have to play on a city field where they have to try to schedule around other sports that are using the fields during the same seasons. During the fall season (when the softball team is playing fall ball) the baseball team uses the softball team's field for practice because their field is covered.

 

This year alone the girls' softball team has had to pay out of their fund approximately $5,000.00 in improvements that the city would not pay for to make the field safe for play. This has depleted their funds and the improvements will have to be redone next year because of the neglect that is done by the city.

 

How can our girls get a field of their own that is dedicated to softball just like the football team has so that they can excell?

 

I know that someone out there can help me with this problem, if so please help. Our girls have worked hard to raise the additional money to pay for their TSSAA umpires so that they can have their games, the parents are also trying to raise the money along with giving their time to help keep the games going.

 

Right now if the game is one that is away the parents have to drive the players to their game because the school system will not provide buses for the players like they do for the football team. I know that many people believe that the bus issue is trivial but when a parent has to take time off of work to provide transportation it becomes an economical issue for the whole community.

 

Where should I start trying to get the playing field even?

[swingaway]

exactly...if the baseball team takes time out of their own schedule and work hard to raise money it should be THEIRS they shouldnt have to share it...the softball team can raise money just like the baseball team and they can have THEIR OWN too...its not fair to baseball teams that work hard to be punished by having to share something when the softball team just sits back and benefits from it...

exactly!

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Look, it is the law. If it is important to a baseball team, or football team or whatever team not to share its facility they should build it on their own property. Then they wouldnt have to worry about the Title 9 issue.