DII, what will happen?

[sivart]

my original favorite really was Baylor, but they are now out

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How could you count baylor out? They beat Mccallie 4-0, NotreDame 3-0, and they tied Knox Catholic on the road 0-0. They have earned at least a number 2 seed in the region tournament and i think if they play as well as they did against ND and Mccallie they will be sure to advance to the state tourney.

[ydet]

How could you count baylor out?  They beat Mccallie 4-0, NotreDame 3-0, and they tied Knox Catholic on the road 0-0.  They have earned at least a number 2 seed in the region tournament and i think if they play as well as they did against ND and Mccallie they will be sure to advance to the state tourney.

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The entire DII state tourney bracket needs to be redone. There are three very good teams in the east region but only two get to go to the dance. I dont think he was totally counting Baylor out, it is just that Notre Dame and McCallie will probably be the two teams to go from the East. All three teams should get a shot but only two teams will be able to go. It will be a good fight and anything can happen, but the Favs are McCallie and N.D.

[BigG]

The entire DII state tourney bracket needs to be redone. There are three very good teams in the east region but only two get to go to the dance. I dont think he was totally counting Baylor out, it is just that Notre Dame and McCallie will probably be the two teams to go from the East. All three teams should get a shot but only two teams will be able to go. It will be a good fight and anything can happen, but the Favs are McCallie and N.D.

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What will happen when D II loses Catholic and Notre Dame? Wont that mess up the numbers? Will they have to totally re-do your tournament?

[ydet]

What will happen when D II loses Catholic and Notre Dame?  Wont that mess up the numbers?  Will they have to totally re-do your tournament?

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Hopefully.

[FairBall]

The entire DII state tourney bracket needs to be redone. There are three very good teams in the east region but only two get to go to the dance. I dont think he was totally counting Baylor out, it is just that Notre Dame and McCallie will probably be the two teams to go from the East. All three teams should get a shot but only two teams will be able to go. It will be a good fight and anything can happen, but the Favs are McCallie and N.D.

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With Baylor defeating ND 3-0 last night I believe that the landscape in that region as changed. Right now I think that Baylor and McCallie are two of the strongest teams in that region with Knoxville Catholic right on their heals. It a shame that there's only two slots for state in that region. I'm very impressed with the overall schedules that Baylor, Knoxville Catholic, and McCallie have played. I'm not overly impressed with the west, but CBHS is as solid as they come. Saw ECS play Farragut earlier in the year. They have the potential to stir things up. There schedule was very tough this year. I've heard that Notre Dame is a big team that likes a small field, however, put them on a larger field you have a shot at them! I really like Baylor at this point and have a great deal of respect for McCallie. My concern about ND is their team play over the last 4 games. Maybe they can turn it around. Give them credit they have held the top spot in the state for quite awhile.

[mjuhb]

D2 needs a new tournament format BIGTIME!!! you got 22 teams make it like a cup format let the bottom eight teams fight for two spots thelast sixteen in a single elimination tournament one more thing i am sorry i left notredame out of my predictions i know thats a crime but when you have four good teams fighting for two spots someone goes home

[californiastars]

Catholic and Baylor will represent the east. mark it down. think about it, guys. when was the last time catholic didn't make state? the seniors have been to the dance every single year, so you would think their experience and leadership will carry them this late in the season. catholic has built one of the top programs in the state, and that can't be ignored. ND, if I recall correctly, has not been to the state tourney in quite a few years. it's like clockwork, fellas, catholic drops a few close ones early in the year, rounds into form and starts dismantling the other east teams. they will be in the region championship, and they will be the top seed. i have yet to see a more dynamic goalie than mike pierce, and i have yet to see a better finisher than Brad Green. They are solid throughout. nuff said.

[sivart]

You're right if Catholic beats Notre Dame on Monday, then they will be the top seed in the East. But if they tie or Notre Dame wins then Baylor will get the top spot.

[TackerDad]

Some posters have complained about the DII state tournament format, particularly the fact that the East only gets two teams vs. three each for Middle and West.

 

The reason for the 3-3-2 split is purely mathematical. The West has 9 DII schools; 3 of them or 33% advance to state. The Middle has 8 DII schools; 3 of them or 37.5% advance to State. The East has 6 DII schools; 2 of them or 33% advance to State.

 

Seems imminently fair to me.

 

Also, until the state tournament was moved to the Mike Rose Soccer complex in Memphis, only 4 teams in each division – not 8 – advanced to state because of a lack of fields. (No other facility in the state could handle 24 teams from all three divisions). I hope we don't have to take a step backward in this regard when the tournament location starts to rotate again next year.

 

I keep picking up from some posters in other threads that the East is unfairly penalized at state because of how strong their region is. Recent history tells a very different story.

 

• The last FOUR DII state champions have been from the West (CBHS 3 and MUS 1).

 

• The only teams to make more than one appearance in the DII state finals over the past four years have been from the West (CBHS 3 and MUS 2).

 

• 75% of the DII state finalists over the past four years (6 out of 8) have been from the West.

 

• Over the past years. the West has put three different teams (CBHS, MUS, and ECS) into the state finals; the Middle two (USN and MBA); and the East zero.

 

• The last time the East had a team advance to the DII state finals was 2000, when this year's senior players were in the 7th grade.

 

Perhaps this will be the year that a team from the Middle or East finally breaks through. But until that happens, the West continues to reign supreme.

[Heelsfan247]

Catholic is playing some of the best soccer in the state right now. Lately, they have been rolling over teams left and right. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it all in D2 this year.

[captainwes]

Some posters have complained about the DII state tournament format, particularly the fact that the East only gets two teams vs. three each for Middle and West. 

 

The reason for the 3-3-2 split is purely mathematical.  The West has 9 DII schools; 3 of them or 33% advance to state. The Middle has 8 DII schools; 3 of them or 37.5% advance to State. The East has 6 DII schools; 2 of them or 33% advance to State.

 

Seems imminently fair to me.

 

Also, until the state tournament was moved to the Mike Rose Soccer complex in Memphis, only 4 teams in each division – not 8 – advanced to state because of a lack of fields. (No other facility in the state could handle 24 teams from all three divisions). I hope we don't have to take a step backward in this regard when the tournament location starts to rotate again next year.

 

I keep picking up from some posters in other threads that the East is unfairly penalized at state because of how strong their region is. Recent history tells a very different story.

 

• The last FOUR DII state champions have been from the West (CBHS 3 and MUS 1).

 

• The only teams to make more than one appearance in the DII state finals over the past four years have been from the West (CBHS 3 and MUS 2).

 

• 75% of the DII state finalists over the past four years (6 out of 8) have been from the West.

 

• Over the past years. the West has put three different teams (CBHS, MUS, and ECS) into the state finals; the Middle two (USN and MBA); and the East zero.

 

• The last time the East had a team advance to the DII state finals was 2000, when this year's senior players were in the 7th grade.

 

Perhaps this will be the year that a team from the Middle or East finally breaks through. But until that happens, the West continues to reign supreme.

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for someone so "skilled" in math, you seem to have forgotten any logic. maybe the reason so many west teams advance is that they are basically playing at home in memphis. big advantage. maybe the reason fewer east teams advance is that there are fewer of them to have that chance. your claim of impartiality is clearly false.

Edited May 8, 2005 by captainwes

[Hoya]

TackerDad, great post. The great CBHS teams, in particular, have greatly helped your argument with its threepeat from 2001-2003.

 

Your stats are correct as far as they go. Yes, the TSSAA participation formula is based on simple math, just as you indicate. That's the problem, it is simple and it is indiscriminate.

 

Only 12 different teams have ever made it to the DII State tournament since it began in 1998.

 

In the East, 5 of the 6 total teams (Baylor, Catholic, McCallie, ND and Webb) have advanced to the State tournament since 1998. Only 4 of the 8 teams in the Middle have ever gone to the tournament (BGA, Father Ryan, MBA and USN). In the West it is even worse, only 3 teams of the 9 have ever gone to the tournament (CBHS, ECS and MUS). Put another way, the East has 5 regularly competitve teams, the Middle has 4 and the West has sent the same 3 teams every single year for all seven years. The rest of the Middle and West teams may win a game or two now and then, but they never get to the tournament.

 

Basing tournament participation purely on the numbers of schools in each area (i.e. teams that NEVER make the tournament) makes no sense. For soccer purposes, 6 of the 9 West schools (66%), 4 of the 8 Middle schools (50%). but only 1 of the 6 East schools (16%) are simply not competitve participants at the State level in DII soccer. Why should the tournament distribution be based on DII's non-factors rather than the teams that actually advance?

 

The frustration of some fans in the East is that the automatic, additional, and annual 3rd selections from the Middle and West have seldom been as strong as the 3rd place teams in the East. The 2001 McCallie team (#2 or 3 in the Nation) and the 2003 ND side (#1 in the State for most of the year) are the best examples of the concern. They were left home while clearly less competitive Middle and West 3rd place teams advanced on the backs of weak but numerous schools that have never even been close to being in the tournament.

 

Even though I think you could argue that the true participation stats would indicate 3 teams from the East should advance every year since, despite only sending 2 teams, 42% of all DII teams to ever play at States are from the East, all I'm advocating is rotating the two 3rd place participants (to get 8 teams) from area to area each year, thus, evening the field for each Region.

Edited May 8, 2005 by hoya75