Referring

[pattonboysdad]

Without commenting on the rules or the rules interpretation by the ref, because I'm not current on rules either on the National High School Federation level or on the NCAA level, I would caution against automatically accepting the NCAA as a standard by which to judge scholastic, because the rules for the two organizations are not always written the same.

 

 

i am totally aware of that...that was not the point...if you read the whole thread you would see the context of the discussion

 

taking a guy down and cutting him is simply a strategy...not taunting...it means you are better on take downs than your opponet...so you use this to win

 

my point was that ncaa wrestlers use this strategy all the time to score points...is that not the goall???

[buckingbronco2]

I think we have solved the problem of publicity for highschool wrestling. This new unpublished rule should insure a WWF atmosphere at the state finals. Wrestlers,coaches,parents,security all on the mat at one time mixing it up. A TV rating out of this world.

[xbody]

You can view the new rules and interpretations for 05-06 at www.nfhs.org

 

Go to sports and rules and then select wrestling.

 

No mention of a "new" taunting rule. Takedown and release is NOT taunting. Putting a man on his back and just leaving him laying on his back when you release him is taunting. Putting a man in and out of near fall is NOT taunting.

 

The HS book is not available online.

[pattonboysdad]

You can view the new rules and interpretations for 05-06 at www.nfhs.org

 

Go to sports and rules and then select wrestling.

 

No mention of a "new" taunting rule. Takedown and release is NOT taunting. Putting a man on his back and just leaving him laying on his back when you release him is taunting. Putting a man in and out of near fall is NOT taunting.

 

The HS book is not available online.

 

 

you are exactly right...could not have said it better...but that was not the case yesterday in tullahoma...and all the refs said they just got a flyer on it...???

[reftn]

This is fun.

 

Xbody, if a wrestler gets up and leaves a kid there lying on his back long enough for it to be considered humiliating, I think the kid on his back is stalling.

He should get off his back and actively pursue a takedown.

 

Or

 

The kid that let him off of his back when having him in a near fall situation is definitely not working for a pin, and is therefore stalling.

 

Very subjective. If it is his second stalling offense it could cost him a point for stalling and an extra point for unsportsmanlike. If he forgot and left a piece of jewelry on or shoelace covers, he is out.

 

Now if you are in the regional tournament, depending on which kid is yours, are you not going to fight either side to get him to states? I mean the principle of the rule not the above examples.

 

reftn

[xbody]

reftn

 

I see where you are coming from but I disagree. If you called top man for stalling while holding a man in near fall criteria you would be the first I've ever heard of doing such a thing. As far as hitting the guy on his back for stalling after being left laying there goes, come on now, let's not get silly!

 

I think you know when a wrestler is doing this to humiliate or not. I'm not saying he's doing it on purpose, he's probably just doing what his coach said "let him go". Preventive officiating would warrant you stopping the match and giving one of those famous "warnings" that if you do that again I'll penalize for UC. This will take care of the situation almost every time and we can get back to wrestling.

 

whew...too much typing for me on a Sunday afternoon

[reftn]

The whole thing is silly, as is the rule. Its a tough sport physcially and mentally, this is one of the mental aspects. If you cant take it, you have two choices:

 

1. Dont get on your back

 

2. Quit

 

reftn

Edited December 18, 2005 by reftn

[Drem2Achev]

I have been involved in and around wrestling since 1972. And in in 2005 I saw something happen at a 14 team tourney yesterday that I have never saw in my life.

No one could remember a single stalling warning or a stalling pentalty being awarded.

Me my assitant coaches, and we ask at least 14 other coaches. No one could rember a single call being made. This tournement was in NC.

 

I witnessed one of my wrestles coming off the bottom, standing up and his opponent grabbing his legs and never coming off the mat and holding the legs and never trying to work up for 52 seconds and the ref said nothing. When I question the call the ref said thats the way they did it. He also said the man on the mat did not have to make an attempt to bring the offensive man back down or work up it was the responsibility of the bottom man to escape.

 

Is there I new rule I can not find it. The refs allowed the top man to go into full top mounted crab rides never moving off the hips {both not just one} for a whole period.

They would not make the top man work for the turn. I ask it they were awarding riding points and was told no was I crazy.

 

Other than stalling they did a pretty good job. But no one I talked to could remember a single stall call.

[Drem2Achev]

I have been involved in and around wrestling since 1972. And in in 2005 I saw something happen at a 14 team tourney yesterday that I have never saw in my life.

No one could remember a single stalling warning or a stalling pentalty being awarded.

Me my assistant coaches, and we ask at least 14 other coaches. No one could remember a single call being made. This tournement was in NC.

 

I witnessed one of my wrestles coming off the bottom, standing up and his opponent grabbing his legs and never coming off the mat and holding the legs and never trying to work up for 52 seconds and the ref said nothing. When I question the call the ref said thats the way they did it. He also said the man on the mat did not have to make an attempt to bring the offensive man back down or work up it was the responsibility of the bottom man to escape.

 

Is there I new rule I can not find it. The refs allowed the top man to go into full top mounted crab rides never moving off the hips {both not just one} for a whole period.

They would not make the top man work for the turn. I ask it they were awarding riding points and was told no was I crazy.

 

Other than stalling they did a pretty good job. But no one I talked to could remember a single stall call.

Edited December 26, 2005 by Drem2Achev

[michael.geasley]

 

...I've also seen a wrestler, who is being held in a guillotine. moan in pain and rapidly tap the mat (many would recognize it as "tapping-out), yet the referee didn't recognize the wrestler's gestures as a default (Rule 5, § 5, also see Case Book and Manual Rule 5, § 5 situation, as well as Rule 6 § 4, Article 4), nor did the referee choose to stop the match and award 2, 3 or 4 near fall points. (Rule 5, § 9, Article 2, f through i). Luckily for this wrestler the second time he moaned and tapped the mat it was at the end of the period. It just doesn't seem safe, legal or fair to make a kid continue to wrestle in agony when he doesn't wish to. (Although I would disagree, some might judge that the offensive wrestler was intentionally and illegally inflicting pain. Even so, I feel the match should have been stopped).

 

 

REFTN, Thanks for your honest, straight forward answers on this thread.

 

Above is part of my earlier post. Would you mind providing your evaluation of this situation? I hope I've explained it well enough for you to make a comment.

 

If any other referee or otherwise knowledgeable person has a comment, please feel free to do so. However, be advised that if you disagree with me and prove me wrong I'll be forced to defend myself with vicious personal attacks on your character and family bloodline. Okay, just kidding.

[stovepipe]

If you want to tap out put both shoulers or scapulae on the mat and hold. Can you imagine that if everytime someone started tapping, the ref stopped the match? Talk about upset coaches! Big match and team A needs a pin at HWT to win the dual. Team A's heavyweight is outmatched but hits a lucky throw and lands B on his back. B, a former state champion and frequent poster on Coach T, knows if he taps wildly that the ref will stop the match. He can afford a 4 pt nearfall because he is up by 12 points and this kid will never throw him again.

 

My point = Its a tough sport with only one way out....your back.

 

This situation is akin to "Ref I cant breathe!!!! He is choking me!" This situation is often responded to with "You can't breathe? But you can talk!"

 

Stove

Edited December 20, 2005 by stovepipe

[reftn]

Michael,

 

At any point, the coach may throw a towel in and stop the match IMMEDIATELY. If I am a coach and my kid is in this kind of distress, I am tossing a towel in.

 

Not being an apologetist here for my side, a kid is on his back in near fall, we dont want the kid to miss his pin and are closely watching the defensive shoulders. This is a situation where having the assistant referee is invaluable. It is his job to watch for such things as tapping out, though it is rare. Absent that, we are, or should be checking shoulders (both offensive and defensive), hands to face, clear air passages, blood, arm slip out of a headlock, and so on.

 

Not trying to hang this on the coach, but I would want to know why he didnt throw a towel in?

 

Safety of the wrestler is our #1 job. If we missed a tap out, we missed a big one.

 

reftn