State Tournament Stats

[thejackal]

I cannot get past the point of leaving anyone at home. Taking all 40 (top 4 in each of the 10 regions) and running a pig tail round on thursday to get to 32 man bracket.

 

I also could see going to a District qualifiers for Regions and Region qualifiers for States. That was how it was done back in the day (my day).

 

the "jack"

[Sommers]

I cannot get past the point of leaving anyone at home. Taking all 40 (top 4 in each of the 10 regions) and running a pig tail round on thursday to get to 32 man bracket.

 

I also could see going to a District qualifiers for Regions and Region qualifiers for States. That was how it was done back in the day (my day).

 

the "jack"

They did that up in Illinois too. TN used to do that too back when only four region qualifiers were held. I remember less than 90 teams at state.

[Sommers]

Why just the 4th place finishers going to the stronger wrestling regions? Maybe in the weaker regions only the champions qualify, similiar to the NCAA's.

Vol, my own son could have been left at home due to him entering the region tournament at 60-70% and finishing second to a good wrestler, but someone who normally would not offer such a challenge (look where the Springfield kid ended up at 140). If you make a blanket statement that all weak regions have reduced qualifiers at this level of wrestling you could leave someone out who could make lots of noise at state. You never know who could rise up at the right time.

 

Look at Morgan Agrigo, if you based everything on his regular season performance and he wouldn't have peaked as he did, then his weaker region may have caused him to miss state if he slipped with a second place finish. Again, you never know who will step it up at state. Look at 189 as well. Who'd ever thought Tom Minwell would have fallen at the big dance?

[walkenvol]

Jack and soms - the most exciting plan I've heard involves no regions, every varsity wrestler is entered. But if the powers that be decide that it should be limited to 32 men per weight, shouldn't one qualify based on something other then geographic location? If the stats provided are accurate, then 2 of the regions sent 42+ wrestlers but placed only 1. The NCAA doesn't send the same number of wrestlers from the Southern Conf as the Big 10 based on the strength of the conference. Again, if the number of wrestlers per weight class is limited, shouldn't the strength of the region determine the number of qualifiers from each region?

Edited February 21, 2006 by walkenvol

[jakesdad]

Vol, my own son could have been left at home due to him entering the region tournament at 60-70% and finishing second to a good wrestler, but someone who normally would not offer such a challenge (look where the Springfield kid ended up at 140). If you make a blanket statement that all weak regions have reduced qualifiers at this level of wrestling you could leave someone out who could make lots of noise at state. You never know who could rise up at the right time.

 

Look at Morgan Agrigo, if you based everything on his regular season performance and he wouldn't have peaked as he did, then his weaker region may have caused him to miss state if he slipped with a second place finish. Again, you never know who will step it up at state. Look at 189 as well. Who'd ever thought Tom Minwell would have fallen at the big dance?

 

It's relative. We could have left potential state placers at home (4th placers in region 4). Congratulations to Spencer; I'm glad he recovered enough to do so well.

[rcpatriot]

Region 2 has agreed to have a District tournament next year. 2 districts with 5 wrestlers(i believe) in each weight class advancing to regionals.

 

I agree with the double elim., which I think will eventually happen.

 

I don't think the problem is so much about qualifying for state as it is the seeding for state. Too many #1's meeting each other in round 2. As an example, kids being seeded because they took a 4th place finish at state last year at 103, but is a 140lbr this year that is seeded over the 140lbr that finished 5th at 140 last year. (I know this happened one particular weight class this year, not necessarily at 140)

 

My understanding is that the purpose for seeding brackets is simply to try to match the best against the best in the finals. Not trying to minimize anyones accomplishments this year, or any other year, but I think most will agree that this isn't happening. I do think changes in the seeding criteria for state needs to be looked at hard.

[Sommers]

It's relative. We could have left potential state placers at home (4th placers in region 4). Congratulations to Spencer; I'm glad he recovered enough to do so well.

Thanks!!

 

Congrats on your Jake and how he had seniors walking off the mat cussing "that stupid Ä#!╚@╗%₧*$!* freshman" while he advances to a 3rd place finish, and could have earned a silver if the brackets were drawn up differently. Heck, @ 140, although the Argigo kid did what he had to do and did well in the finals I heard Holliman faced his toughest matches in the quarters and semi's, and perhaps the Vol is on to something here. It just concerns me that high school wrestlers can be like a microwave and take over their bracket on any given weekend, or quite the opposite ...like I noticed happened to a few especially at 152 and 189 this year.

 

I'm curious what's the problem with pig-tails and double elimination?

 

 

soms

[walkenvol]

Completely agree on double elimination and haven't heard a single viable argument opposing double elimination. Heck, if a family drives all the way from Memphis, Johnson City, etc. shouldn't junior at least be assured of a 2 match minimum? Tourney finished around 9:30 Thursday night - run a single consolation round there until 11:00 or so with another round after the quarters on Friday morning then you're back to the way it is now.

 

JCpat is dead on with the seeding - there has to be a better way. There have been a couple of rankers on this board who have a credable track record. Use those if nothing better is out there.

 

You still didn't address the issue of why should one qualify based on their geography. Regardless of the number of teams in your region, shouldn't the qualification be based on the quality of the wrestlers and not the location of the wrestlers?

[Sommers]

You still didn't address the issue of why should one qualify based on their geography. Regardless of the number of teams in your region, shouldn't the qualification be based on the quality of the wrestlers and not the location of the wrestlers?

I mentioned 152 and 189, Jakesdad also pointed out 160 which was an interesting weight class. I would submit that both Hamm and R. Bray were a little surprised with the outcome in a few of those weight classes. Is Tolbert one of those that may have been left out because of being a young-developing sophomore with lack luster perfomance during the regular season? Would J. Young been in a different seeding considering his undefeated record? You really don't know how the match up will be until that given match, i.e., Will Young's pay back and Doster's as well.

Edited February 21, 2006 by Sommers

[MasterBlaster 1]

Thanks!!

 

Congrats on your Jake and how he had seniors walking off the mat cussing "that stupid Ä#!╚@╗%₧*$!* freshman" while he advances to a 3rd place finish, and could have earned a silver if the brackets were drawn up differently. Heck, @ 140, although the Argigo kid did what he had to do and did well in the finals I heard Holliman faced his toughest matches in the quarters and semi's, and perhaps the Vol is on to something here. It just concerns me that high school wrestlers can be like a microwave and take over their bracket on any given weekend, or quite the opposite ...like I noticed happened to a few especially at 152 and 189 this year.

 

I'm curious what's the problem with pig-tails and double elimination?

soms

Thats what makes D-I and pre-split days so great.

Some young man steps up and is in the zone and wins it.

Morgan wasn't a surprise @ 189 to the NE TN folks. We all knew how hard he had been working and that we had a tuff group at 189 from region 2. Justin Knox last years 171lb state Champ called it before the start of the match.

I had never seen the 152 lb champ wrestle before so that was fun to watch.

[texas23]

Thanks!!

 

Congrats on your Jake and how he had seniors walking off the mat cussing "that stupid Ä#!╚@╗%₧*$!* freshman" while he advances to a 3rd place finish, and could have earned a silver if the brackets were drawn up differently. Heck, @ 140, although the Argigo kid did what he had to do and did well in the finals I heard Holliman faced his toughest matches in the quarters and semi's, and perhaps the Vol is on to something here. It just concerns me that high school wrestlers can be like a microwave and take over their bracket on any given weekend, or quite the opposite ...like I noticed happened to a few especially at 152 and 189 this year.

 

I'm curious what's the problem with pig-tails and double elimination?

soms

 

 

I am not so sure that the excellent wrestler from Reb Bank did not belong in the finals. He and his coaches had a strategy and were very close to pulling off a big surprise. Had Creagan not been wrestling so well as to take advantage of the opportunity that was presented, it may have been a different story. Both of those wreslters belonged in that final.

 

Just my opinion.

[Sommers]

I am not so sure that the excellent wrestler from Reb Bank did not belong in the finals. He and his coaches had a strategy and were very close to pulling off a big surprise. Had Creagan not been wrestling so well as to take advantage of the opportunity that was presented, it may have been a different story. Both of those wreslters belonged in that final.

 

Just my opinion.

Tex, I agree they did prepare well for all of their match ups in this tournament including Travis Creagan's match. Very impressive.

 

I heard you were looking for me, but once again, we don't hook up.

 

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