TFCA All State Announced

[926]

There are a couple of reasons i think you are against this type of All State.

1. you didnt make it.

2. your son didnt make it.

3. your coach was to lazy to go and blamed the system for why you or your teammates didnt make it.

4. your coach didnt nominate you because your not the best on your team

 

i would love to know who you thought shouldnt be on this list. and why? and who would take that persons place. since you are obviously an expert on everyone stats.

 

Wrong on all accounts. Read my first couple of posts and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about. And that's only in 2A. I'm not going to name names of the boys I don't think are deserving. Chances are that if someone is coming here and vehemently defending this list, it's for one of the reasons I listed. But, the omissions are GLARING. To expound on just one of my examples...Kyrus Lanxter or Alcoa. Remember him? He's the guy who's going to West Virginia. He's also the guy who won the Blue Cross Bowl Offensive MVP for 2A. Yet, he's missing from this "All-State". Remember, if the Mr. Football finalists weren't automatically awarded the "All-State", then the following 2A athletes would have been omitted assuming their coaches didn't send in the ballot and/or vote (and this is a pretty safe assumption since most of the schools these players attend don't have a consistent history of participating)...Chris Donald-Huntindon (Notre Dame or Tennessee bound), Mark Fisher-Goodpasture (Alabama bound), Raye Sykes-Alcoa (JUCO due to grades, I'm sure), Chris Shiverdecker-Alcoa , Adrian Donald-Humbolt, and Josh Hawkins-Louden. And this is just 2A. I'm sure that people who are more intimately familiar with the other classes would know much more about the athletes chosen at those levels.

 

As for stats...you can take them for what they are worth. Not every school reports defensive stats to the papers. And I've "tackled" tackling stats in a thread over a year ago (do a search). Some schools are notorious for padding stats. If a school has a tackler in the top 10 every year, then they are likely blessed with an optimistic statistician.

 

I don't see my posts as being negative at all. Brutally honest, yes... negative, no. There are undoubtedly some very deserving athletes on these lists. Some didn't even win the Region MVP for their position, yet get selected All-State??? I'm just trying to be a voice for justice and against injustice. I'm curious to see what Murphy Fair, who is mostly impartial, would think of this version of the All-State if he didn't fear being shut out by some of the coaches. Tennessee HS football is his livelyhood, after all.

[Lions4ever]

Wrong on all accounts. Read my first couple of posts and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about. And that's only in 2A. I'm not going to name names of the boys I don't think are deserving. Chances are that if someone is coming here and vehemently defending this list, it's for one of the reasons I listed. But, the omissions are GLARING. To expound on just one of my examples...Kyrus Lanxter or Alcoa. Remember him? He's the guy who's going to West Virginia. He's also the guy who won the Blue Cross Bowl Offensive MVP for 2A. Yet, he's missing from this "All-State". Remember, if the Mr. Football finalists weren't automatically awarded the "All-State", then the following 2A athletes would have been omitted assuming their coaches didn't send in the ballot and/or vote (and this is a pretty safe assumption since most of the schools these players attend don't have a consistent history of participating)...Chris Donald-Huntindon (Notre Dame or Tennessee bound), Mark Fisher-Goodpasture (Alabama bound), Raye Sykes-Alcoa (JUCO due to grades, I'm sure), Chris Shiverdecker-Alcoa , Adrian Donald-Humbolt, and Josh Hawkins-Louden. And this is just 2A. I'm sure that people who are more intimately familiar with the other classes would know much more about the athletes chosen at those levels.

 

As for stats...you can take them for what they are worth. Not every school reports defensive stats to the papers. And I've "tackled" tackling stats in a thread over a year ago (do a search). Some schools are notorious for padding stats. If a school has a tackler in the top 10 every year, then they are likely blessed with an optimistic statistician.

 

I don't see my posts as being negative at all. Brutally honest, yes... negative, no. There are undoubtedly some very deserving athletes on these lists. Some didn't even win the Region MVP for their position, yet get selected All-State??? I'm just trying to be a voice for justice and against injustice. I'm curious to see what Murphy Fair, who is mostly impartial, would think of this version of the All-State if he didn't fear being shut out by some of the coaches. Tennessee HS football is his livelyhood, after all.

Most of the time 926 I respect your posts but the ones on this thread make me re-think that. This is NOT and does not even pretend to be the "Most Outstanding Athlete and God's Gift to the Tennessee Football World" list of athletes. This is a list made by Tennessee coaches who:

 

1. Are members of the TFCA

2. Bothered to return the ballot with nominations

3. Care enough about their players that they nominate the ones they think are the most deserving and the most likely to be able to get a scholarship and go on to play college ball (whether that be at West Virginia, UT, ND or lowly Lambuth or Bethel College.)

4. Are willing to put their player's name out there every way they can to try to get them the recognition they deserve and the scholarships some will need to be able to even go to college.

and lastly,

5. Are the coaches who could give a rat's butt about who gets the most press or who is going to what big-name school...the only thing these coaches care about is nominating a deserving young man who has given blood, sweat and dedication to his team and busted his ###### on the field for him.

 

I personally cannot think of an award I would be more honored to accept.

[926]

Most of the time 926 I respect your posts but the ones on this thread make me re-think that. This is NOT and does not even pretend to be the "Most Outstanding Athlete and God's Gift to the Tennessee Football World" list of athletes. This is a list made by Tennessee coaches who:

 

1. Are members of the TFCA

2. Bothered to return the ballot with nominations

3. Care enough about their players that they nominate the ones they think are the most deserving and the most likely to be able to get a scholarship and go on to play college ball (whether that be at West Virginia, UT, ND or lowly Lambuth or Bethel College.)

4. Are willing to put their player's name out there every way they can to try to get them the recognition they deserve and the scholarships some will need to be able to even go to college.

and lastly,

5. Are the coaches who could give a rat's butt about who gets the most press or who is going to what big-name school...the only thing these coaches care about is nominating a deserving young man who has given blood, sweat and dedication to his team and busted his ###### on the field for him.

 

I personally cannot think of an award I would be more honored to accept.

 

And I respect your opinion. However, I still stick to my guns that most people (myself included) consider All Anything to be composed of the best players in the given area, in each position. What would Region 6 2A's All Region team look like if Camden and Lewis County didn't nominate any of their players and the result was an All Region 6 2A with no players from these two teams? Would you consider this to be a bona fide All Region team?

 

The TFCA All State is the beauty pageant equivalent of getting named Miss Congeniality. She's not the prettiest one, everybody knows it, but everybody likes her because she's so nice and they look better when they're standing next to her.

 

Believe me. I know what you are saying and see where you are coming from. I know that this is an All-State list that was compiled from only a fraction of the players that were eligible, for whatever the reason. The problem is that there are many people who don't understand this (or don't want to). You see, the title: Tennessee Football Coaches Association All-State Team leads the uninformed observer to believe that this is an award given by all of the football coaches in the state, chosen from every football player in the state.

 

You're a Camden guy, so you'll be able to relate with this example. Chase Horton was the best LB in 6 2A this year. Not just my opinion...he was voted Defensive MVP at tonight's banquet. He's not a member of this All-State. Another LB for another school who was only named All Region (Someone else was named LB MVP), was a member of this All-State. I have absolutely nothing against this kid. He has the heart of a lion, an honor student, great kid, and he's a baller. I'll say no more.

[pchs#1fan]

There are a couple of reasons i think you are against this type of All State.

1. you didnt make it.

2. your son didnt make it.

3. your coach was to lazy to go and blamed the system for why you or your teammates didnt make it.

4. your coach didnt nominate you because your not the best on your team

 

i would love to know who you thought shouldnt be on this list. and why? and who would take that persons place. since you are obviously an expert on everyone stats.

Well said, and thank you for making the point clear, all I see is bickering for most. For those who did make all state congrats to you!! And wow, i work an avg. of 13 hrs a day at my job and still got to get on the comp. Look at all the bickering and its been about 35 mins so far, 5 little mins , mmmm! That must be very very hard.. To all the bickers Grow Up! Salute the Players given and if your "player" isnt on here first find out why b4 you go out against this selection. Just think if this was the Pres. election, are you going to sit out and complain because you didnt vote. OR did you take the time during or after work to vote for the future. whether you answered yes or no, you need to put it to this as well. To all the coaches who did the right thing we thank you, because it is you who introduces our KIDS to a poss. future in football or any sport by that matter!!!!

[pchs#1fan]

if they dont deserve then no one does.. derek phillips didnt play offense and still racked up over 700 all purpose yards of returns and int returns. never played a down of offense. francis also had interecptions, sacks, blocked field goals and punt blocks... do some homework before you down the vikings... boy.

sorry you didnt make it.

I will 2nd that quote, and to make it crystal. Iam the father of Robert Francis, and he with his teammate Derek Phillips should be all state. All things listed above are true, he had an incredible year that Im still flabbergasted. Last year I was in Iraq and Robert was playing jv to heal a shoulder injury he got but to come back this year play Varsity, then given the role of def. captain and had one great year. To all of Perry Co. and the Reg. 6 coaches and players who watched him play you know how much heart he committed to his team. And thats why MAYBE he was voted and then selected from also other coaches who dont even know him. Look at the list, players from E..M..AND W. TN. Im I standing up for them. Just as I did in every game we had this year,,you better believe it!!!

[Lions4ever]

And I respect your opinion. However, I still stick to my guns that most people (myself included) consider All Anything to be composed of the best players in the given area, in each position. What would Region 6 2A's All Region team look like if Camden and Lewis County didn't nominate any of their players and the result was an All Region 6 2A with no players from these two teams? Would you consider this to be a bona fide All Region team?

 

The TFCA All State is the beauty pageant equivalent of getting named Miss Congeniality. She's not the prettiest one, everybody knows it, but everybody likes her because she's so nice and they look better when they're standing next to her.

 

Believe me. I know what you are saying and see where you are coming from. I know that this is an All-State list that was compiled from only a fraction of the players that were eligible, for whatever the reason. The problem is that there are many people who don't understand this (or don't want to). You see, the title: Tennessee Football Coaches Association All-State Team leads the uninformed observer to believe that this is an award given by all of the football coaches in the state, chosen from every football player in the state.

 

You're a Camden guy, so you'll be able to relate with this example. Chase Horton was the best LB in 6 2A this year. Not just my opinion...he was voted Defensive MVP at tonight's banquet. He's not a member of this All-State. Another LB for another school who was only named All Region (Someone else was named LB MVP), was a member of this All-State. I have absolutely nothing against this kid. He has the heart of a lion, an honor student, great kid, and he's a baller. I'll say no more.

But 926 you are missing the point...when a coach can only nominate 2 players, don't you think the good ones that care about their players are going to nominate 1. those he can help the most right now 2. those who have hustled on the field for him for 4 years (at least in Camden's case). Don't worry, next year you'll see Horton's name on that list and probably a few more lists unless something happens. What do you want? For them to change the name of the list from All-State to something else? Will that make you feel better? I guarantee when the TSWA list comes out I will be able to point out glaring omissions from that list also. These lists are completely subjective so quit trying to make them something they are not. This one is the opinion of a select group of coaches just like the TSWA's list is a select group of (mostly east TN) sportswriters. If you don't agree then fine...they didn't require nor ask for any input from you (or me ) anyway.

[psychomom24]

Most of the time 926 I respect your posts but the ones on this thread make me re-think that. This is NOT and does not even pretend to be the "Most Outstanding Athlete and God's Gift to the Tennessee Football World" list of athletes. This is a list made by Tennessee coaches who:

 

1. Are members of the TFCA

2. Bothered to return the ballot with nominations

3. Care enough about their players that they nominate the ones they think are the most deserving and the most likely to be able to get a scholarship and go on to play college ball (whether that be at West Virginia, UT, ND or lowly Lambuth or Bethel College.)

4. Are willing to put their player's name out there every way they can to try to get them the recognition they deserve and the scholarships some will need to be able to even go to college.

and lastly,

5. Are the coaches who could give a rat's butt about who gets the most press or who is going to what big-name school...the only thing these coaches care about is nominating a deserving young man who has given blood, sweat and dedication to his team and busted his ###### on the field for him.

 

I personally cannot think of an award I would be more honored to accept.

Good post! I agree 100%. And to 926, I'm sure a lot of coaches do pad the stats, but I know for a fact that PC's are accurate. The coach was in the field house every Sat. watching game tapes over and over and over...the stats taken during games were not always correct, but he watched it on tape and corrected them.

[psychomom24]

I will 2nd that quote, and to make it crystal. Iam the father of Robert Francis, and he with his teammate Derek Phillips should be all state. All things listed above are true, he had an incredible year that Im still flabbergasted. Last year I was in Iraq and Robert was playing jv to heal a shoulder injury he got but to come back this year play Varsity, then given the role of def. captain and had one great year. To all of Perry Co. and the Reg. 6 coaches and players who watched him play you know how much heart he committed to his team. And thats why MAYBE he was voted and then selected from also other coaches who dont even know him. Look at the list, players from E..M..AND W. TN. Im I standing up for them. Just as I did in every game we had this year,,you better believe it!!!

Glad to see you're still reading the boards! But I don't guess you'll be PCHS #1 fan next year, I'll have to take over that job! And for the record, I think it's great that Robert got all state, you can thank Coach Bradley for making sure he got the recognition he deserved. Hopefully, some colleges will be looking at him. Good luck!

[926]

But 926 you are missing the point...when a coach can only nominate 2 players, don't you think the good ones that care about their players are going to nominate 1. those he can help the most right now 2. those who have hustled on the field for him for 4 years (at least in Camden's case). Don't worry, next year you'll see Horton's name on that list and probably a few more lists unless something happens. What do you want? For them to change the name of the list from All-State to something else? Will that make you feel better? I guarantee when the TSWA list comes out I will be able to point out glaring omissions from that list also. These lists are completely subjective so quit trying to make them something they are not. This one is the opinion of a select group of coaches just like the TSWA's list is a select group of (mostly east TN) sportswriters. If you don't agree then fine...they didn't require nor ask for any input from you (or me ) anyway.

 

I was thinking about this on the way in to the office. If this were called the All Tennessee Football Coaches Association Team, then I know I, for one, would have no problem with it at all. That's what it really is, right? This title doesn't pretend to be all-inclusive...but the title, "All-State" does. I just can't get over the philosophical hurdle of believing that the All State team should be compiled of arguably the best players.

 

 

Do you think Horton will make the TSWA All-State? I do.

[Lions4ever]

 

Do you think Horton will make the TSWA All-State? I do.

Do I think that he deserves to make it?...yes. Will he? I don't know because the only press he got was on the this board and publicity is the one of the biggest deciding factors in TWSA's list. Especially since most of the votes come from East TN where no one knows who Moose is. It would be great if he did but I think if he makes it, it will be as honorable mention. Is that fair?...no. But it is what it is.

 

As far as your idea of a name change...submit it to the TFCA, works for me. I just don't see where semantics are really going to change what this list is about.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Lions4ever

[926]

Well, i suspect it's going to be a tough year for anyone west of the river, other than the Donalds, to get much of a shot at the TSWA All-State in 2A. Middle and East were the cream of the crop this year. Lewis and Camden were very good 2A teams, and both got vaporized by a couple of Nashville privates. Do you realize how good Alcoa had to be to score 31 on Goodpasture and hold them to 3 points? Lewis County and Camden could have combined and still wouldn't have had enough to beat CPA or Goodpasture.

 

As far as the "East Tennessee Bias", you might want to check your facts. The 2004 version of the TSWA All-State (the only one they had on their website) for 2A had 19 players from West TN out of the 37 players awarded. Three were from Camden. Kind of hard to argue with that. But I'm sure you'll give it your best shot.

 

Maybe they're not as biased as you think. Maybe, they try to pick the best players at their position from across the state, without an agenda...be it noble or otherwise. What a concept.

[Lions4ever]

Well, i suspect it's going to be a tough year for anyone west of the river, other than the Donalds, to get much of a shot at the TSWA All-State in 2A. Middle and East were the cream of the crop this year. Lewis and Camden were very good 2A teams, and both got vaporized by a couple of Nashville privates. Do you realize how good Alcoa had to be to score 31 on Goodpasture and hold them to 3 points? Lewis County and Camden could have combined and still wouldn't have had enough to beat CPA or Goodpasture.

 

As far as the "East Tennessee Bias", you might want to check your facts. The 2004 version of the TSWA All-State (the only one they had on their website) for 2A had 19 players from West TN out of the 37 players awarded. Three were from Camden. Kind of hard to argue with that. But I'm sure you'll give it your best shot.

 

Maybe they're not as biased as you think. Maybe, they try to pick the best players at their position from across the state, without an agenda...be it noble or otherwise. What a concept.

Let's hope your right and that everyone who deserves recognition gets it...maybe that will make everyone happy that doesn't like the TFCA list and we can forget about it until the argument comes up again next season.