Metal Cleats in High School

[ksgovols]

Sports bring injuries! Do you think Ralph and Karen are going to ban metal cleats at UT? The rule is in place to aid students-athletes as they go to college. Boys are stronger athletes therefore; they can wear metal cleats because of their body structure. I do not believe this is the reason accident happen. I am sorry you were hurt so many times playing baseball, but I played high level baseball into college and believed the game should be played like Pete Rose played and none of your problems every happen to me. I did break my hand in college diving for a fly ball in the outfield. Maybe we should do away with hustle and giving 100 plus percent. It is sports and injuries happen. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

 

 

 

/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /> Dude. I'm pro metal cleats. I don't know what you are reading into this. All I'm saying is head first slides are just as dangerous as metal cleats and we don't outlaw them in the older age groups. I got hurt playing like Pete Rose. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Nobody is mandating metal cleats for the high school kids are they? It's still their choice isn't it? If that's the case, then the only ones that are changing what they are doing are the infielders blocking the bag with their legs. It's just sound technique to straddle the bag or sweep tag. The pitchers aren't being forced to wear metal cleats nor any of the girls that don't want to wear them. Boys wear metal cleats because they are better cleats. The same reason the girls want to wear them. My kid would wear them on the football field if he could because he can plant and cut better in them. They're just better cleats.

[trojan35]

/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /> Dude. I'm pro metal cleats. I don't know what you are reading into this. All I'm saying is head first slides are just as dangerous as metal cleats and we don't outlaw them in the older age groups. I got hurt playing like Pete Rose. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Nobody is mandating metal cleats for the high school kids are they? It's still their choice isn't it? If that's the case, then the only ones that are changing what they are doing are the infielders blocking the bag with their legs. It's just sound technique to straddle the bag or sweep tag. The pitchers aren't being forced to wear metal cleats nor any of the girls that don't want to wear them. Boys wear metal cleats because they are better cleats. The same reason the girls want to wear them. My kid would wear them on the football field if he could because he can plant and cut better in them. They're just better cleats.

 

 

Head first slides are no more dangerous than diving back into a base on a pickoff play. What I am saying is, head first slides are not that great of a risk. I know people get broken fingers, but you are more likely to get hurt with a head first tackle or any type of tackle, in football then sliding into a base in softball head first. I do not agree that head first slides should be outlawed.

 

Here is a study on slides-dives:

Hosey RG, Puffer JC.

Department of Family Medicine, University of Kentucky, Lexington, USA.

 

We prospectively observed seven softball and three baseball Division I collegiate teams to study the incidence of sliding injuries, the types of injuries resulting from the sliding technique, and the amount of time lost from participation. Slides were categorized as either feet- or head-first on the basis of the leading part of the body during the slide. Slides were further stratified depending on whether a diveback technique was performed. We recorded 37 injuries in 3889 slides in 637 games and 7596 athlete game exposures. The overall incidence of sliding injuries was 9.51 per 1000 slides and 4.87 per 1000 game exposures. Softball players had a significantly higher incidence of sliding injuries (12.13 per 1000 slides) than did baseball players (6.01 per 1000 slides). In baseball, the injury rate was higher for feet-first slides (7.31 per 1000 slides) than for headfirst slides (3.53 per 1000 slides) or divebacks (5.75 per 1000 divebacks). In softball, injury rates were higher for head-first slides (19.46 per 1000 slides) than for feet-first slides (10.04 per 1000 slides) or divebacks (7.49 per 1000 divebacks). The majority of injuries sustained were minor, with only four (11%) injuries causing the athlete to miss more than 7 days of participation.

 

PMID: 10843128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[ksgovols]

Head first slides are no more dangerous than diving back into a base on a pickoff play. What I am saying is, head first slides are not that great of a risk. I know people get broken fingers, but you are more likely to get hurt with a head first tackle or any type of tackle, in football then sliding into a base in softball head first. I do not agree that head first slides should be outlawed.

 

 

You're not getting the analogy. I don't want head first slides outlawed either. Same for metal cleats. They are the same in my book as far as playing the game goes. The ONLY point I was trying to make is that head first slides AREN'T outlawed and the risk for injury for head first slides is at least equal to if not greater than for wearing metal cleats.

 

We're on the same page whether you want to admit it or not! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

 

Here's a couple of links about head first slides.

 

ASJ article

 

 

Astros against head first slides

[catsbackr]

Seriously, it sounds like the coaches need to teach the girls HOW to slide. The injury instances in either type of slides in softball are way out of proportion compared to baseball. And remember, these statistics were compiled prior to metal cleats.

[ksgovols]

I noticed that too.

 

So are we talking about safety issues because of the difference in the game (baseball/softball) or the difference in the players (male/female)? I know ACL issues with women are in part due to the positioning of their knees in contrast to their hips. Are sliding injuries and metal cleat injuries a direct resultant of this physical difference?

 

I think that's the way that this sort of rule change has to be addressed.

 

1. I don't think the basics of the girl's game is that much different from the boys other than the mechanics of the swing and pitching.

2. The boys game has played in metal cleats from day one with the exception of the little guys 12 and under with injuries due to metal cleats being dismissed as just part of the game.

3. If the physical differences between women and men aren't the source of injury problems wearing metal cleats, what is the problem?

 

In my estimation, it's either technique that's not being taught or inexperience in wearing the metal cleats. Both of which are correctable.

[trojan35]

You're not getting the analogy. I don't want head first slides outlawed either. Same for metal cleats. They are the same in my book as far as playing the game goes. The ONLY point I was trying to make is that head first slides AREN'T outlawed and the risk for injury for head first slides is at least equal to if not greater than for wearing metal cleats.

 

We're on the same page whether you want to admit it or not! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

Here's a couple of links about head first slides.

 

ASJ article

Astros against head first slides

 

"I'd make head first slides illegal, make the use of double bags at first base mandatory and use break away bags at 2nd and 3rd." Your QUOTE from page 4 " Your QUOTE above: "I don't want head first slides outlawed either." Do illegal and outlaw mean the same to you as they do to me? /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> I was talking about your first quote on page 4, now I see you agree with me on this page.

[trojan35]

Seriously, it sounds like the coaches need to teach the girls HOW to slide. The injury instances in either type of slides in softball are way out of proportion compared to baseball. And remember, these statistics were compiled prior to metal cleats.

 

 

NCAA stats 1988-89 and 2003-04

A total of 9% of game injuries occurred due to contact with a fixed base ( Figure 4), and of these, 43.3% resulted in ankle ligament sprains. In addition, 7.8% of all game injuries resulting in 10+ days of activity time loss were ankle ligament sprains, and the most common mechanism of those injuries was contact with a fixed base ( Table 6). Athletes were nearly twice as likely to sustain an ankle ligament sprain in a game as in a practice (0.44 versus 0.25, rate ratio = 1.8). Sliding injuries accounted for 23% of all game injuries (n = 580), and the injury rate for sliding was 0.89 injuries per 1000 A-Es for games but only 0.02 per 1000 A-Es for practices (n = 175). The higher rate of ankle ligament sprains and sliding injuries in games versus practices likely is related to many factors, including hesitation or late decision to slide and an increase in aggressiveness during games versus practices. Feet-first and head-first slides are both common in women's collegiate softball, but feet-first slides are used more often, 3 which may partially explain the incidence of ankle ligament sprains in the current study. In the only study investigating college softball sliding injuries, 3 the authors collected injury incident data during 422 Division I softball games (4756 game-exposures) and 215 Division I baseball games (2840 game-exposures). They reported that softball players employed an average of 3.30 feet-first slides per game and 1.34 head-first slides per game. The sliding injury rate for softball was 12.76 per 1000 slides, which was significantly greater than the sliding injury rate for baseball (6.20 per 1000 slides, P = .02). Most softball injuries due to sliding were contusions (33%) and ankle ligament sprains (19%). 3 The researchers defined injury as ???any acute ailment that occurred during a slide in a game situation and that required medical attention or for which medical treatment was deemed necessary by the athletic training staff,??? which differs from the definition of injury used in the current study. Although these differences make direct comparisons difficult, the results of that study support the injury trends here. Both the current study and the literature 3 appear consistent with the clinical practice of certified athletic trainers, who likely have observed the injurious effects of sliding, which can lead to extensive treatment, rehabilitation, and/or activity time loss.

[ksgovols]

"I'd make head first slides illegal, make the use of double bags at first base mandatory and use break away bags at 2nd and 3rd." Your QUOTE from page 4 " Your QUOTE above: "I don't want head first slides outlawed either." Do illegal and outlaw mean the same to you as they do to me? /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" /> I was talking about your first quote on page 4, now I see you agree with me on this page.

 

 

Yes. In the context of where metal cleats fits into the equation, I'd put in those rules in before I'd outlaw metal cleats. Head first slides are more dangerous than metal cleats in my opinion and the Houston Astros organization too, BUT......I'm not for outlawing any of those things if the coaches will teach proper technique.

 

Don't need double bags, break away bases or eliminating head first slides if you teach the kids how to play the game. The same goes for metal cleats. Teach the kids how to use them properly and how to tag properly and how to slide properly and most of these injuries don't happen. In the absence of that, there are a lot of safety rules that could be applied. We could use RIF balls for instance. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

[screwball]

In my estimation, it's either technique that's not being taught or inexperience in wearing the metal cleats. Both of which are correctable.

 

 

 

Perhaps the coaches would be well served to read this article from the NFCA when transitioning the players to metal cleats:

 

 

http://www.nfhs.org/core/contentmanager/up...etal_cleats.pdf

[ksgovols]

Perhaps the coaches would be well served to read this article from the NFCA when transitioning the players to metal cleats:

http://www.nfhs.org/core/contentmanager/up...etal_cleats.pdf

 

 

Good stuff screwball. There's some really good quotes in there. The coach that said despite the trepidation in adjusting to steel cleats, he'd never seen any girl go back to molded cleats after wearing steel echos my sentiments. I'd say all the anti steel folks should try on a pair and go to the park.

 

/popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" /> I guess I never imagined this would be such a big deal. Growing up playing baseball and having a baseball kid, I'm just used to the click, click, click of metal cleats in the parking lot and dugout areas.

 

'Back in the day' we wore stirrup socks too so that we'd have something to catch our cleats on and trip us up. There were kids at rival schools that claimed to 'sharpen' their cleats, but most of that stuff was urban legend.

[HighStandardsScout]

I am very con metal cleats! Not only is it hard on the kids??™ knees its just not good at all! TSSAA should ban metal cleats asap /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[muffin]

Metal is the safest way to go.