Ward Gossett article/blog

[sly]

Found this today in the www.timefreepress.com

 

Prep wresling coaches, TSSAA at impasse over double-elimination in Division I tournament

Sunday, February 24, 2008

 

By:

Ward Gossett (Contact)

Division I wrestling coaches want in the worst way to have double-elimination as part of the state wrestling tournament.

 

Anybody, they contend, can have a bad match, and their desire is to see the best six wrestlers medal in each weight class.

 

Conversely, there are time constraints, contends TSSAA executive director Ronnie Carter, who believes that a fan-friendly environment and current built-in breaks are a necessity for the success of the tournament. He says the breaks are needed for table workers, the scorers, the referees the fans and even the coaches and wrestlers themselves.

 

It??™s a continuing impasse because Carter won??™t consider relenting unless coaches agree to cut current 32-man brackets to 16. Then, he would definitely consider double-elimination.

 

There are possible solutions.

 

Some seek four super regionals ??” or sectionals, if you will ??” following the region tournaments ??” with the top four advancing to a 16-man bracket. A lot of midstate coaches would like that one because the obvious pairings would put Chattanooga area Regions 3 and 4 together where Soddy-Daisy, Bradley Central, Cleveland and Ooltewah might whittle down each other??™s numbers. Local coaches say that??™s unfair to even consider because the state??™s wrestling powerbase is nestled in Southeast Tennessee??™s.

 

There is the idea, too, of returning to eight regions from 10, but that too would likely put the bulk of the state??™s power in one region. Of course, one could send part of Region 3 ??” Bradley, Cleveland, Walker Valley, McMinn Central and McMinn County ??” to Knoxville??™s Region 2 and send part of Region 2 to upper east Tennessee and Region 1. But bet dollars to doughnuts that Region 2 coaches would scream about that one. The rest of Region 3 ??” Rhea County, Central, Cookeville, Cumberland County and Tyner could be absorbed by Chattanooga (Region 4).

 

One could send Cookeville to Region 5 or 6 but the last thing they want over there is a budding powerhouse, which Cookeville is quickly becoming under coach Scott Cook.

 

Another possible solution would be to cut Division II??™s field in half from its present 16-man bracket. The Division II state wrestling tournament is one of the few ??” and might be the only one ??” that doesn??™t have some kind of qualifying tournament. Currently, if you wrestle and start at a Division II school you??™re guaranteed a spot in the state tournament. That would seem to cheapen the medals those athletes earn, especially if one is looking from the Division I side of the ledger.

 

Oh sure, you??™ll hear the old argument about not wanting to wrestle the same people over and over but if you look at the last year or two, Baylor saw McCallie only once before the state tournament. Other than the state duals, they weren??™t in the same tournaments. And neither Baylor nor McCallie wrestled another Division II in-state rival other than each other. Several Division II schools attended both the McCallie and Father Ryan Invitationals but there were very few individual matches between the teams.

 

The other solution that comes to mind is to move Division II to Maclellan Gym. If it stays with a 16-man bracket, leave it at two days. If it should go to eight-man brackets, then hold it in one day. Or hold Division II at Maclellan on Friday and move it to McKenzie Arena for the medal rounds on Saturday.

 

I??™m not so sure that I favor double-elimination, but I acquiesce to those with much more experience ??” those who declare that the state tournament is the only tournament in the state that utilizes a follow-your-man plan rather than double-elimination and to the man who has held the line against several far-flung suggestions for improvement.

 

But don??™t ever think that wrestling could live an easier life without Ronnie Carter. For those who don??™t know it, Ronnie is a former wrestling coach and has a vested interest in the sport. He even hosted a state tournament one year at Overton High School. So while you may not agree with him, please know that he has the sport??™s best interest at heart. And, yes, I know that such comments are contrary to what you can read on Coach T, that Web site for anonymous posters with way too much time on their hands.

 

Subscribe Here! Blu-ray brightens

[BuckLateral]

And, yes, I know that such comments are contrary to what you can read on Coach T, that Web site for anonymous posters with way too much time on their hands.

 

Subscribe Here! Blu-ray brightens

 

 

Can you guys believe Ward took a shot at us like that? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. He must still be upset about that poster early in the season who appeared under the name "wardgossup". Where is that guy when we need him---he made one post and then disappeared.

 

His blog does, however, sum up all the basic proposals to try to get to double elimination. But I'm curious about his statement "I??™m not so sure that I favor double-elimination.........". So Ward, if you are still reading CoachT , how about explaining in a subsequent blog why you would not favor double elimination. Now that wrestling is over, we have more than enough free time on our hands to read it.

 

Interestingly, Gossett posted an earlier blog about double elimination in which he says " the need for such ( double elimination) was never more evident when........" and then recites the elimination of Salda as a result of Young's injury that has also been cited by posts on this board as a reason for the need for double elimination. He also suggests that the coaches try to get back the 4th place qualifier from each region that they lost a few years ago:

 

Sunday, February 24, 2008

Many prep wrestling coaches want to see double-elimination in the state Division I tournament

 

By:

Ward Gossett (Contact)

 

In a survey of Division I coaches at this past weekend??™s state wrestling tournament, it was more than apparent that they would like to see a double-elimination tournament.

 

The need for such was never more evident than at 171 pounds when Cookeville sophomore John Salada, a probable medalist, was eliminated from further contention when the wrestler who beat him did not weigh in for the semifinals and defaulted.

 

The Division I state tournament is one of the last tournaments in the state that uses the follow-your-man practice to determine losers-bracket competitors. If a wrestler loses in either the round of 32 or 16, he must hope the athlete who beats him advances to the semifinals. Otherwise he??™s done.

 

A double-elimination format would allow every wrestler a second chance.

 

But the chances of getting such a change appear to be remote at best. Adding double-elimination to the tournament would be the equivalent of adding eight dual meets and TSSAA officials are very much aware of time constraints and keeping fans in the stands only so long.

 

TSSAA executive director Ronnie Carter indicated that the TSSAA would consider a double-elimination bracket if Division I coaches wanted to cut from a 32-man to a 16-man bracket. Coaches have heard that one before and want no part of it and one reported proposal that may be submitted is to add double-elimination and start at 1 p.m. on Thursday rather than 4 p.m.

 

However, there also is the fear among Division II coaches, who have a 16-man, double-elimination bracket, that they??™ll be left out in the cold and looking for another site for their tournament if Division I goes to double-elimination and stays with a 32-man bracket.

 

It should be interesting to see what comes from a spring meeting between Carter and a Division I executive committee put together Saturday by the state coaches??™ association.

 

While coaches are looking for double-elimination rounds, they also may wind up requesting four ???super regionals??? either in place of region tournaments or between the current region and state tournaments.

 

While they??™re asking, though, they ought to try to get back the fourth-place qualifier they had for each region at every weight up to the time the state added two more regions a couple of years ago.

 

??”??”??”

 

There were improvements in the tournament this past weekend including the addition of scoreboards at each end of the gym for every mat. However, the no-food, no-coolers in the arena rule was met with disdain, if not outright complaining. Primary complaints were the lack of wrestler-friendly food at any of the concession stands and exorbitant concession prices.

 

???It??™s like I said before, these people are charging Titans prices for a high school event,??? said one disgruntled fan.

[maj]

Found this today in the www.timefreepress.com

 

Prep wresling coaches, TSSAA at impasse over double-elimination in Division I tournament

Sunday, February 24, 2008

 

By:

Ward Gossett (Contact)

Division I wrestling coaches want in the worst way to have double-elimination as part of the state wrestling tournament.

 

Anybody, they contend, can have a bad match, and their desire is to see the best six wrestlers medal in each weight class.

 

Conversely, there are time constraints, contends TSSAA executive director Ronnie Carter, who believes that a fan-friendly environment and current built-in breaks are a necessity for the success of the tournament. He says the breaks are needed for table workers, the scorers, the referees the fans and even the coaches and wrestlers themselves.

 

It??™s a continuing impasse because Carter won??™t consider relenting unless coaches agree to cut current 32-man brackets to 16. Then, he would definitely consider double-elimination.

 

There are possible solutions.

 

Some seek four super regionals ??” or sectionals, if you will ??” following the region tournaments ??” with the top four advancing to a 16-man bracket. A lot of midstate coaches would like that one because the obvious pairings would put Chattanooga area Regions 3 and 4 together where Soddy-Daisy, Bradley Central, Cleveland and Ooltewah might whittle down each other??™s numbers. Local coaches say that??™s unfair to even consider because the state??™s wrestling powerbase is nestled in Southeast Tennessee??™s.

 

There is the idea, too, of returning to eight regions from 10, but that too would likely put the bulk of the state??™s power in one region. Of course, one could send part of Region 3 ??” Bradley, Cleveland, Walker Valley, McMinn Central and McMinn County ??” to Knoxville??™s Region 2 and send part of Region 2 to upper east Tennessee and Region 1. But bet dollars to doughnuts that Region 2 coaches would scream about that one. The rest of Region 3 ??” Rhea County, Central, Cookeville, Cumberland County and Tyner could be absorbed by Chattanooga (Region 4).

 

One could send Cookeville to Region 5 or 6 but the last thing they want over there is a budding powerhouse, which Cookeville is quickly becoming under coach Scott Cook.

 

Another possible solution would be to cut Division II??™s field in half from its present 16-man bracket. The Division II state wrestling tournament is one of the few ??” and might be the only one ??” that doesn??™t have some kind of qualifying tournament. Currently, if you wrestle and start at a Division II school you??™re guaranteed a spot in the state tournament. That would seem to cheapen the medals those athletes earn, especially if one is looking from the Division I side of the ledger.

 

Oh sure, you??™ll hear the old argument about not wanting to wrestle the same people over and over but if you look at the last year or two, Baylor saw McCallie only once before the state tournament. Other than the state duals, they weren??™t in the same tournaments. And neither Baylor nor McCallie wrestled another Division II in-state rival other than each other. Several Division II schools attended both the McCallie and Father Ryan Invitationals but there were very few individual matches between the teams.

 

The other solution that comes to mind is to move Division II to Maclellan Gym. If it stays with a 16-man bracket, leave it at two days. If it should go to eight-man brackets, then hold it in one day. Or hold Division II at Maclellan on Friday and move it to McKenzie Arena for the medal rounds on Saturday.

 

I??™m not so sure that I favor double-elimination, but I acquiesce to those with much more experience ??” those who declare that the state tournament is the only tournament in the state that utilizes a follow-your-man plan rather than double-elimination and to the man who has held the line against several far-flung suggestions for improvement.

 

But don??™t ever think that wrestling could live an easier life without Ronnie Carter. For those who don??™t know it, Ronnie is a former wrestling coach and has a vested interest in the sport. He even hosted a state tournament one year at Overton High School. So while you may not agree with him, please know that he has the sport??™s best interest at heart. And, yes, I know that such comments are contrary to what you can read on Coach T, that Web site for anonymous posters with way too much time on their hands.

 

Subscribe Here! Blu-ray brightens

 

 

I don't believe there is any reason a double elimination tournament could not be held and keep the 32 man bracket. It just isn't that hard. If it is beyond the capability of TSSAA then I suggest we put the tournament out to bid. I know there are folks in Georgia who are capable. I"ve seen no evidence consideration for the fans has anything to do with resisting a double elimination. Consider most wrestling fans are there to see wrestlers they personally know. The current format where a kid loses on day 1 and has to wait until the second day to see what the fellow who beat him does is hardly fan friendly. Grandpa and Dad have taken the day off work only to find the kid who beat theirs in turn gets beat. Now the only reason they are in attendence is up in the stands with them. I am amazed anyone can say consideration for the fan is a factor in refusing to go double elimination with a straight face.

[BadOne]

I don't believe there is any reason a double elimination tournament could not be held and keep the 32 man bracket. It just isn't that hard. If it is beyond the capability of TSSAA then I suggest we put the tournament out to bid. I know there are folks in Georgia who are capable. I"ve seen no evidence consideration for the fans has anything to do with resisting a double elimination. Consider most wrestling fans are there to see wrestlers they personally know. The current format where a kid loses on day 1 and has to wait until the second day to see what the fellow who beat him does is hardly fan friendly. Grandpa and Dad have taken the day off work only to find the kid who beat theirs in turn gets beat. Now the only reason they are in attendence is up in the stands with them. I am amazed anyone can say consideration for the fan is a factor in refusing to go double elimination with a straight face.

 

 

At least it is getting talked about in a public way.

 

Its 200 dang matches.

[centerofthemat]

The argument that there are time restraints is ridiculous. Georgia has 5 state champions with double elimination. 5A-32man, 4A-32man, 3A-32man, 2A-16man, 1A-8man. If Ronnie Carter needs help wrapping his head around this monumental task with only 2 state tournaments, with one being barely over a 16 man bracket, then tell him to come attend a Georgia State tournament and take notes. There are over 3 times the amount of wrestling programs in Georgia than TN. GA mangages to get it done. TN needs double elimination, without changes. It will only help the sport grow with more exposure by keeping it 32.

[fiscon]

I don't believe there is any reason a double elimination tournament could not be held and keep the 32 man bracket. It just isn't that hard. If it is beyond the capability of TSSAA then I suggest we put the tournament out to bid. I know there are folks in Georgia who are capable. I"ve seen no evidence consideration for the fans has anything to do with resisting a double elimination. Consider most wrestling fans are there to see wrestlers they personally know. The current format where a kid loses on day 1 and has to wait until the second day to see what the fellow who beat him does is hardly fan friendly. Grandpa and Dad have taken the day off work only to find the kid who beat theirs in turn gets beat. Now the only reason they are in attendence is up in the stands with them. I am amazed anyone can say consideration for the fan is a factor in refusing to go double elimination with a straight face.

 

We are capable.