It's not just about scoring

[h2odog]

Here is a little info about DonC??™s list of the ???violators??? of new Rule XII Sportsmanship. Between the 2005 season and today they have accumulated the following number of double digit games:

 

USJ 10

Grace Baptist Academy 8

Notre Dame 8

Riverdale 7 3 this year(so far); 5 - 9-0 games over the same time

Oak Ridge 6

Bearden 5

CAK 5

Seymour 5

 

The remaining teams on the list averaged 1 game a season or less double digit games over the same 3?? seasons. You are right those things happen. (One team managed an 18 ??“ 0 score) While the strong teams you mentioned had 1 or 0 double digit games over the same time frame.

 

It does not bother me (or most people) if a lot of goals are scored. What I believe demonstrates poor sportsmanship is when I see a score of 10 ??“ 0 and the box score list the teams top scorers with those 10 goals. Only 1 of the players in NDs 11-0 game was not listed in Chattanoogan points leaders list from the day before. That was playing the starters to pad the stats no matter how you look at it.

 

 

You didn't read Don's explanation........The JV played Baylor earlier that day and half the team has to play on both JV & V. A player can only 3 halves a day. They did't have subs available. The only other thing they could have done was play short.

[Canesoverhere]

Okay, the best comeback has now been raised to 5-0 to a 6-5 finish, Do I hear 6-0! 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, c'mon, 6-0?????

[DonCChatt]

Here is a little info about DonC??™s list of the ???violators??? of new Rule XII Sportsmanship. Between the 2005 season and today they have accumulated the following number of double digit games:

 

Notre Dame 8

 

The remaining teams on the list averaged 1 game a season or less double digit games over the same 3?? seasons. You are right those things happen. (One team managed an 18 ??¦quot; 0 score) While the strong teams you mentioned had 1 or 0 double digit games over the same time frame.

 

It does not bother me (or most people) if a lot of goals are scored. What I believe demonstrates poor sportsmanship is when I see a score of 10 ??¦quot; 0 and the box score list the teams top scorers with those 10 goals. Only 1 of the players in NDs 11-0 game was not listed in Chattanoogan points leaders list from the day before. That was playing the starters to pad the stats no matter how you look at it.

 

 

I believe ND's 10+ games count is 7, not eight, with 5 of the 7 being against one hapless team in our district. I'd rather not play them, as it's not fun to watch, and it's not fun for the girls to play. Believe me, even a 10-0 win over them is a reflection of a great deal of restraint on our part.

 

As far as the scorers being the points leaders for week 1, if you will look at the list, it includes 100% of everbody (reported) who has scored even one goal or gotten a single assist. By saying everyone who scored on the Signal Mountain game but one was already on the list, all that really means is that everbody who scored had at least one goal or assist but one.

 

For the other teams with multiple 10=+ games, I suspect that many of them also play district games against very weak opponents.

 

As far as a mercy rule goes, I'm 100% for it, or anything similar that the coaches and refs agree to.

 

As far as Canes question of the greatest come-from-behind wins, I think that is too narrow. Like I mentioned before, we still beat Ensworth, but they were down 1-5, and came back 4-5 and were very much trying to tie it up to the bitter end. I'm not aware of any other similar ND games, and you can't see the order of scoring on Euro, so you can't get at his question looking at the scoreboard.

[soccermom127]

Per Canes

 

???For your information, what I think bad sportsmanship is? If you are winning games by double digits.???

 

Thanks to Canes, we can now add a new rule to the game of soccer.

 

XII Fouls and Misconduct

 

Poor Sportsmanship

 

Any team that knowingly scores more than 10 goals more than their opponent in the course of a regulation game shall be deemed to show bad sportsmanship. Any team that scores 9 more is to be given a verbal warning. Forget any rules about serious foul play, violent conduct, spitting, tackles from behind, taunting, etc. It??™s all about the score differential. At the very least, such teams shall be ???called out??? on an approved public venue or online board. Repeated violations of this new rule shall be given a ???Time Out???. Henceforth, this rule shall be known as the Canes-I-Know-Better-Than-You rule.

 

As such, the following 11 teams have already violated the new rule (being retroactive applied) so far in the 2008 season and shall be known as bad sports:

 

Brentwood

Briarcrest

CAK

Dobyns-Bennett

Fayette Academy

Jackson Christian

Lenoir City

Notre Dame

Page

Riverdale

Seymour

 

Additionally, the following 6 teams are being given an official verbal warning:

 

Antioch

FRA

Halls

Knox. Central

Livingston Academy

Station Camp

 

For 2007, the following 29 teams also violated the rule and are now termed bad sports:

 

Arlington

Bearden

BGA

Brentwood

Briarcrest

CAK

Cleveland

Columbia Academy

Dobyns-Bennett

Dyersburg

East Robertson

 

Franklin

Germantown Houston

Grace Baptist Academy

Henry County

Independence

McMinn County

Notre Dame

Oak Ridge

Oneida

Powell

Ravenwood

Sequoyah

Seymour

Shelbyville Central

St. Agnes

St. George??™s

University School Johnson City

USJ

 

These 11 would get the verbal warning:

 

Bradley Central

Goodpasture Christian

Greeneville

Jackson Christian

John Overton

Lenoir City

McMinn Central

Morristown West

Ooltewah

Page

Riverdale

 

 

My point? Besides too much time on my hand this morning, it's that this happens. Teams will sometimes score 10+ goals more than their opponent. With all of these teams and the games that had such lopsided scores, has there been some bad sportsmanship? Probably, in some of them. In others, perhaps even most of them, it's teams that have to play each other (assigned in a tournament, within your district, during the post season, etc.). There is no taunting or similar going on.

 

I believe you only get better by playing good or better teams, so schools that choose to play teams that they know they will kill doesn't help their program any.

 

There are so many factors than can influence a team's decision to keep scoring, that I believe it unfair to draw an magic line and say over this threshhold is poor sportsmanship. I've seen plenty of poor sportsmanship in 2-6 games, and nothing but good sportsmanship in 10-0 games

 

 

I see that Briacrest was added to the "naughty" list. Yes, there has been a very few instances where the score was increased......but in those games, I distinctly remember that the goals after "4" or "5" were scored by bench players or by defenders. Additionally, the starting offense for those games were typically challenged with a defensive role while the defenders had a chance to see how the other half lives.

 

Not only did the offensive unit "feel" the defensive unit's pain, but the Defensive team actually had a chance to see their name listed in the box scores of the paper...something that many a defensive player cherishes. Defenders work tirelessly at keeping the ball away from the keeper....but whose name is in the paper....the players that score and the GK. The defenders only get some fame at season end when named to "best of preps" or all district/state, teams. In the instances where Briarcrest played a weaker team, it was also very obvious that the roles were reversed by the Briacrest players and the opposing team coach realized that Briarcrest was trying to reduce or slow down the pain.

 

As a coach myself, I have been known to pull players off the field gradually where the opposing team doesn't really fully notice that they are playing 11 on 9 or so....this does make it challenging for the ones of the field, but it can really be confusing when changing your system of play. I much prefer the switch between offensive and defensive roles.

[BigG]

When I coached high school girls in Florida, there was a 10 goal "mercy rule" that if there was a 10 goal differencial with one half played, the game was called... period. It was a thing of contention down there, many argued for and against, but it had a place for sure. I believe it was Satellite Beach High school went an entire regular season without playing a second half of a game (of which my team was one of those unfortunate ones whose goal was to last MORE than one half but failed!). Is there a place for this here in TN? Again, I don't think so if one has a game plan.

 

To say that "It is my job to score and your job to stop us" seems naive in the extreme when comparing the talent that some teams have at their disposal compared to the lack thereof on some of the other squads. There are extreme district mismatches (I think more-so in the girls season than in the guys I must say) where the talent level is very disproportionate. There is no way that some of these teams COULD stop them... this is why I believe a team must "stop itself" in a manner of speaking.

 

The things that one should look for before they blast a team is to determine if those high scores are exceptions or the mean, are the starters in and still scoring after 3 or 4 or 5, and most importantly, in my opinion, is the attitude of the girls during the whole match. I forget who said it in this thread, but I have seen "close" games that were EXTREMELY ugly and lacking in class, and I have seen 8-0 matches where the girls from both teams are shaking hands and joking after the match.

 

A merit based system takes care of all of this. Moves the best teams up, and the teams that are struggling down. No more major mismatches in district play. The best play the best no matter the size of the school (yes, EastTNref, I am saying this, and have said this for some time). But it isn't going to happen, I don't believe. Too much juggling, too much work for someone to determine who goes where.

 

This will forever be debated and I don't think ever solved. But I do think it is good to debate and see all the sides. I must say that so far, this is one of the BEST discussions we have had on the topic without it getting closed. (I hope I just haven't jinxed us!)

[soccerCoach]

When I coached high school girls in Florida, there was a 10 goal "mercy rule" that if there was a 10 goal differencial with one half played, the game was called... period. It was a thing of contention down there, many argued for and against, but it had a place for sure. I believe it was Satellite Beach High school went an entire regular season without playing a second half of a game (of which my team was one of those unfortunate ones whose goal was to last MORE than one half but failed!). Is there a place for this here in TN? Again, I don't think so if one has a game plan.

 

To say that "It is my job to score and your job to stop us" seems naive in the extreme when comparing the talent that some teams have at their disposal compared to the lack thereof on some of the other squads. There are extreme district mismatches (I think more-so in the girls season than in the guys I must say) where the talent level is very disproportionate. There is no way that some of these teams COULD stop them... this is why I believe a team must "stop itself" in a manner of speaking.

 

The things that one should look for before they blast a team is to determine if those high scores are exceptions or the mean, are the starters in and still scoring after 3 or 4 or 5, and most importantly, in my opinion, is the attitude of the girls during the whole match. I forget who said it in this thread, but I have seen "close" games that were EXTREMELY ugly and lacking in class, and I have seen 8-0 matches where the girls from both teams are shaking hands and joking after the match.

 

A merit based system takes care of all of this. Moves the best teams up, and the teams that are struggling down. No more major mismatches in district play. The best play the best no matter the size of the school (yes, EastTNref, I am saying this, and have said this for some time). But it isn't going to happen, I don't believe. Too much juggling, too much work for someone to determine who goes where.

 

This will forever be debated and I don't think ever solved. But I do think it is good to debate and see all the sides. I must say that so far, this is one of the BEST discussions we have had on the topic without it getting closed. (I hope I just haven't jinxed us!)

 

you know you were not in my home state, I used to volunteer coach at Port St Lucie High, the mercy rule was good thing

[manoamano]

Thank you Canes.

 

This is always a hot topic (usually after a high score like the one mentioned).

 

Caveat: I must admit in my coaching outside the varsity boys, this method has had times where it hasn't worked, even with EXTRA "phases" added in. In middle school, when the higher league teams had scrimmages against the lower level league teams in the beginning of the season, the mismatch of talent was too great. No matter what phase we tried, or where we shot from, or what we limited ourselves too, the ball when in the net (sometimes by the other team). I have learned those games are going to happen. My over all opinion, is as long as it is the EXCEPTION and not the rule, then that is ok. But IN MY OPINION, if your scores are consistantly in the double digits, you need to do one of two things. Start getting a plan in place to limit your opportunities BEFORE they get out of hand, or you need to boost the difficulty of your schedule. Some games you don't have a choice in, I know. But others you do.

 

PHEW... I'm tired. Must be getting old. I knees hurt from climbing down off this soap box.

 

 

What a good example you have given the coaches. Thank you.... I wish there were more coaches like you teaching the young adults how to play soccer. You are an outstanding person.

[SoccerDaughters]

Big G, I don??™t believe that my comment is na??ve at all, as somebody stated earlier, that both Bearden and Maryville coaches and AD have mutually agreed not to actually play all their district games against weaker opponents, I assume because of lopsided scores. This is good coaching, good scheduling, and good oversight by the AD. When coaches make the right decisions as to which teams to play, the kids can actually do just that play the beautiful game.

[BigG]

What a good example you have given the coaches. Thank you.... I wish there were more coaches like you teaching the young adults how to play soccer. You are an outstanding person.

 

Many thanks, but be assured, I screw up a lot, too (don't you say a word, Reaction). And there are many times when parents of my players didn't find me too "outstanding" (especially after cuts) But I also find that if those same parents can read your heart in the fact that you truly have that love for their kids like a coach should, and that you really are trying to make an impact on their LIVES, it gets you through those rough moments with them. I guess I just feel that in being a coach you have such a responsibility to teach MORE than soccer to these young ladies and young men.

[Canesoverhere]

manoamano

 

Thank You. We are slowly collecting a majority here. That is exactly what the goal of this Post was all about. Let's find some creative standards that "most" people will adopt when they are playing a game that they obviously outmatch the opponent.

 

As the girls (and some coaches) mature, they actually begin to enjoy the beauty of the game, not just hearing the net snap. Moving the ball side-to-side, front-to-back, overlapping players. Yep, you may eventually find yourself as a forward 1:1 with the keeper. Well, if the score is 9-0, tap the ball to the keeper, make a 180, and set up up again. Does anyone really need to know the "right" thing to do here?

[ws6transam30]

Okay, I can't resist, first of all I am not a fan of padding stats against weak teams, however at some point it falls on the Coach and girls or boys of the Losing team to care enough about the game to do better. I know I will catch heat from some for saying this, but let me explain why I have this theory.

 

I played Soccer in High School due to going to a Small Private School that didn't have the funds for football after a couple years. Our Schools first 2 Seasons in soccer we got our butts handed to us, it was sickening (fortunately that was the year before my class started High School). Several of the remaing players on the team and our incoming freshmen class were very competitive by nature and had a meeting about the State of our Soccer program. We all decided if this was the sport we had, then we were going to learn how to play well enough to be Competitive and win the State Championship, which we did in 1980 and 1981.

 

That Summer we went to a Soccer Camp, and there happened to be a guest there who spoke often about his love of the game, and The Beautiful Game----yes it was Pele. His speeches, caring and instructional help for each and everyone of the Campers, taught us alot, most importantly, to never quit fighting on the pitch, never quit trying to improve our game, always know that it is a team sport (hence why I don't like the padding of individuals stats), and you have to work hard always if you want to be the best.

 

I say all this, because there was 2 teams that would put a big number of goals up against us, our Freshmen year, and we never forgot it, or Pele's words. Our Junior and Senior year we beat them like they beat us and even did it to them in basketball. What I am trying to get across is, no it is not real nice to spank a team by double-digit goals, but it is the Nature of Sports in general---look at College Football. Instead of us saying it is not good Sportsmanship, how about we go to work and encourage our kids to continue to work hard, or even harder. Maybe turn about will happen one day, I know we enjoyed beating them by 12 goals our junior and senior years, and beating them by an average of 60 points per game in Basketball those 2 years also!

[BigG]

Big G, I don??™t believe that my comment is na??ve at all, as somebody stated earlier, that both Bearden and Maryville coaches and AD have mutually agreed not to actually play all their district games against weaker opponents, I assume because of lopsided scores. This is good coaching, good scheduling, and good oversight by the AD. When coaches make the right decisions as to which teams to play, the kids can actually do just that play the beautiful game.

 

Sorry Soccer Daughters, I must have misunderstood your post. I totally agree with the above quote (I would love to know how they got everyone to agree to that). I guess I misread or misinterpreted your previous thoughts. My apologies (my Lunesta must be kicking in early)