stealing signs

[ksgovols]

The pros that got in trouble were using specialized equipment to record signals so that they could go back to the 'lab' and decode it and use it to their advantage later on. Then...........later on, they were using binoculars and headsets to relay the information. I don't know how much trouble they were really in. It made the opposing coach mad because he was stupid enough to get his signals stolen. You can't fix stupid.

 

If coaches and players are giving signs that can be stolen that easily, they aren't doing a very good job of giving signs. One for fastball and 2 for curveball with a guy on second won't cut it in competitive high school baseball or softball. The catchers that flash 3 or 4 signals are signaling indicator, pitch and location with a dummy thrown in there most of the time. Likewise for catcher's that are holding their mitt exactly where they want the pitch or moving their body to frame it giving it away. You don't need a guy behind the fence to tell the batter where the catcher is setting up if it's that obvious.

 

If I didn't want my signals stolen, I'd have indicators and dummy signals that weren't easy to pick up on and if they were getting picked up, I'd change the indicator. If my catcher is giving away pitches and location, I'm going to change catchers. If the coach is doing a poor job of giving signals or the opposing coach is adept at picking up on signals, then I'm going to have 2 or 3 coaches giving signals so that he has 2 or 3 times as many guys to watch.

 

It's part of the strategy of the game, but really that's what the guys on the bench should be doing. The coaching staff typically have their hands full coaching the game. As a parent or fan, if I can sit behind home plate and simply say 'outside' because the catcher is telegraphing the location of the pitch with his setup, your catcher needs to deke me every now and then. MY team will stop listening to me after they get bad information from me a time or two.

[dore83]

Stealing bases is something players of the game do. Last I checked spectators/ observers of the game don't actually

play in the game /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

But lets teach our young people to do something that IS Illegal at the top level /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Like I said before lot's of character & integrity of people show up in topics like this. /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

 

You are comparing apples to oranges. Stealing signs in softball and baseball "at the top level" IS NOT illegal. What several people insist on using as an example involves the NFL (football) and the METHOD of stealing signals. The Patriots were not busted for stealing signs. They were busted for stealing signs through the illegal use of video tape. If the Patriots figured out the signs coming in from the sideline or wherever during the game and used that to their advantage, it would have been perfectly legal. What they did, however, was illegally videotape those signals specifically over a number of games (often in games which did not involve the Patriots) and match them up to the plays and/or alignments being run.

 

Softball rulebooks have a provision which also makes using video during the game illegal. Taking video of a coach giving signals and using that video to figure out signs is illegal. That is completely different than observing a coach and figuring out his or her signs and using that to an advantage (perfectly legal).

 

I've seen coaches and parents sit with a notepad and write down every signal I've given during a game to try to figure out what my signals are. There isn't anything illegal about that. It's up to me to keep them from figuring it out. If my signals are too elementary, there are plenty of ways to make them more difficult to pick. If they still figure them out, all I have to do is change the indicator or sequence or go to a secondary set of signals.

 

The people who seem to whine the most about "stealing" signals are those who give pitch signals while sitting on a bucket aimed toward home plate and sticking a 1 or 2 between their legs where the batter and everyone in the ball park can see the signal. To expect that everybody will turn their heads and ignore it is ridiculous. The same goes for coaches who only give signals from the 3rd base box when they are calling something. How many times has everyone seen a coach call a batter's name so she will turn around and then swipe their leg (or something equally unimaginative) and the batter bunts on the next pitch... or calls the runners name and "secretively" swipe their arm - with the runner stealing on the next pitch - and never giving any signals when there isn't a play on, much less using an indicator or sequence.

 

Giving signals correctly in a manner where the other team cannot "steal" them and making a change when they do is part of coaching properly. I love it when the opposing players, coach, or parents think they've figured something out and start yelling out what is getting ready to happen, only to have the opposite occur.

[intheshadow]

To make my job easier please tell me your signs and what team you're associated with. I promise not to share them with anyone not on CoachT.

[fiftyfifty]

This thread wasn't or will it be about scouting other teams player's,calling coaches or reading the news paper.

That is not for debate here that is just good ol'e preparation.

 

It was about STEALING signs & if its wrong.One might think that the actual name might give it away.

 

I do love threads like this because it usually shows the true character of people. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

So, it seems that you equate anything illegal as unethical, interesting. To use the word steal is simply baseball, softball terminology, not implying anything at all as being wrong. When you say wrong, what do you mean? Perhaps your character is being revealed the most on this thread. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[MVM]

Stealing bases is something players of the game do. Last I checked spectators/ observers of the game don't actually

play in the game /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

 

But lets teach our young people to do something that IS Illegal at the top level /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Like I said before lot's of character & integrity of people show up in topics like this. /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

 

Regardless of what you may think ...stealing signs is not illegal in the game of softball or baseball. I find interesting that in my day, many moons ago, that was part of the fun watching your opponents give their signs and trying to decipher them. Are you trying to convince me that the players of today can't remember a new set of signs before each game or can't adjust to a new set of signs during the game??

 

Have they changed the rules that the catcher can't call time to discuss a new set of signs for the picture with a runner on second?? or change signs between innings. What has happened to our youth that they can't out think their opponent.

 

Baseball and softball is full of deception and misdirection and mind games its called STRATEGY and thats what makes it them such great sports to play.

[Mr knowitall]

I can see the game being played at the local rec league, parents, grandparents, "Birdie" and all of the guys from the Trailer Park watching the big Tee Ball game. It is a hot Saturday in July and Billy Bob is standing in centerfield watching the signs from the Bad News Bears coach and is on his walkie talkie telling his cousin Bucky that the pitch is going to be a curve ball but the ball forgot to curve. Hmmm, not good for cousin Bucky's team but Billy Bob is an expert like "tball". So he watches again and this time it is a fastball, again the pitcher forgot to throw the fastball instead he threw the curve now poor Bucky does not have an idea what is coming next but he still is watching and waiting to relay the pitch to his cousin who is going to relay it to the player who is going to know the difference between a curve ball and a drop ball. I know that you are a newbie "tball" but you must have never played to win in high school before, I do understand that tball is different but remember a good coach will help his players be successful within the rules. But always remember this and that is MrNoitAll loves you! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

UUMMM Mrnoitall, you don't pitch in T-ball....hence the T meaning batting tee....you see, they set the ball on a "T" so the kids can hit it. However, they might be stealing the signs about what bat he is using, or maybe how high the "T" is set /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

One of our kids asked the coach about changing the signs, but they said they liked the way they looked on the Fence!!!

[jtk]

UUMMM Mrnoitall, you don't pitch in T-ball....hence the T meaning batting tee....you see, they set the ball on a "T" so the kids can hit it. However, they might be stealing the signs about what bat he is using, or maybe how high the "T" is set /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

One of our kids asked the coach about changing the signs, but they said they liked the way they looked on the Fence!!!

 

This is getting too complicated....I'm going back to the bowling forum.

[intheshadow]

This is getting too complicated....I'm going back to the bowling forum.

 

You'll be fine over there until they start talking about the oil patterns on the lanes or how many revs they put on the ball.