Coach loses bid to join team in pregame prayer

[barb]

In Iran, they would make you pray. They are a theocracy ruled by Mullahs (religious leaders). I think you would feel more comfortable there. They could even take people like me and execute me because I believe in religious freedom for everyone. That might make your day.

 

I'm sorry I care about people. I didn't realize not being a fascist meant you had to be a panzy.

 

Beware...Sinclair Lewis said, "Facism will come to America wrapped in a flag carrying a bible." My pastor read that quote to us, by the way, and he's not nearly as touchy-feely as some people!

 

Dang, I didn't know we had the kind of liberals in Greene County that quoted Sinclair Lewis....tell me when Facism gets here will it be packing a 9mm or a squirrel gun.

[clintblackfan01]

This is from Tennessee Education Association:

 

As employees of the government, public-school teachers

are subject to the Establishment Clause of the First

Amendment and thus required to be neutral concerning religion

while carrying out their duties as teachers. That means,

for example, that teachers do not have the right to pray with or

in the presence of students during the school day.

Outside of their school responsibilities, public-school

teachers are free like other citizens to teach or otherwise participate

in their local religious community. But teachers must

refrain from using their position in the public school to promote

their outside religious activities.

 

Teachers, of course, bring their faith with them through

the schoolhouse door each morning. Because of the First

Amendment, however, teachers who wish to pray or engage

in other religious activities??”unless they are silent??”should do

so outside the presence of students. If a group of teachers

wishes to meet for prayer or scriptural study in the faculty

lounge during their free time in the school day, we see no constitutional

reason why they may not be permitted to do so as

long as the activity is outside the presence of students and does

not interfere with their duties or the rights of other teachers.

Teachers are permitted to wear non-obtrusive jewelry,

such as a cross or Star of David. But teachers should not wear

clothing with a proselytizing message (e.g., a ???Jesus Saves???

T-shirt).

 

So lead by example...

 

Dang, I didn't know we had the kind of liberals in Greene County that quoted Sinclair Lewis....tell me when Facism gets here will it be packing a 9mm or a squirrel gun.

 

I wouldn't know Sinclair Lewis if he sat on my lap and called me Daddy. I just have a good pastor and he makes us take notes!

[barb]

This is from Tennessee Education Association:

 

As employees of the government, public-school teachers

are subject to the Establishment Clause of the First

Amendment and thus required to be neutral concerning religion

while carrying out their duties as teachers. That means,

for example, that teachers do not have the right to pray with or

in the presence of students during the school day.

Outside of their school responsibilities, public-school

teachers are free like other citizens to teach or otherwise participate

in their local religious community. But teachers must

refrain from using their position in the public school to promote

their outside religious activities.

 

Teachers, of course, bring their faith with them through

the schoolhouse door each morning. Because of the First

Amendment, however, teachers who wish to pray or engage

in other religious activities??”unless they are silent??”should do

so outside the presence of students. If a group of teachers

wishes to meet for prayer or scriptural study in the faculty

lounge during their free time in the school day, we see no constitutional

reason why they may not be permitted to do so as

long as the activity is outside the presence of students and does

not interfere with their duties or the rights of other teachers.

Teachers are permitted to wear non-obtrusive jewelry,

such as a cross or Star of David. But teachers should not wear

clothing with a proselytizing message (e.g., a ???Jesus Saves???

T-shirt).

 

So lead by example...

 

 

I wouldn't know Sinclair Lewis if he sat on my lap and called me Daddy. I just have a good pastor and he makes us take notes!

 

the quote is actually

"??When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."??, and was used by infamous liberal democrat and radical socialist Huey Long so much it is often mistakenly attributed to him. Perhaps you should read " It Can't Happen Here" which is a fictitious account of the election of a Fascist president.

 

I find it a bit refreshing that your pastor would quote Lewis since his novel "Elmer Gantry", a satirical slam at evangelicals, was banned in several cities and is still fairly unpopular with many in the religious community.

 

And you are more liberal than I initially thought....quoting Sinclair Lewis AND the teachers union.

[FBCOACH]

Actually, in America, what's supposed to be great about our country is that we can move our families to East Tennessee, Chinatown, San Francisco, New York, or Texas without experiencing religious descrimination.

 

What if you were the only player on the team who believed differently than the others? What if your parents told you that you weren't allowed to pray with the rest of the team? Most of you on here have never experienced religious descrimination. When you do, you won't feel the same way, trust me.

 

Why do the same people who complain about "big government" want "government (coaches)" into their children's spiritual lives? Why can't you see that it needs to be separate?

 

It isn't depriving the coach of any right to pray. It just deprives that coach a right to lead his team in prayer. it's the same thing in the classroom. in most companies, it's the same thing in the boardroom.

 

what you see is "wrong" with our country is about all that's been right with it lately. i guess you just have to experience some different things in life before you can understand...

 

 

Clint, you are wasting your time, most of these folks failed government and have little understanding of the first amendment and the concept of freedom of religion.

[barb]

Clint, you are wasting your time, most of these folks failed government and have little understanding of the first amendment and the concept of freedom of religion.

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

I think every ruling the supreme court has made flies in the face of the first ammendment. I was their interpretation of the establishment and free exercise part that has led to the suffucating restrictions of educators and government officials on their personal beliefs in the workplace.

 

I can't for the life of me believe the founding fathers wanted to prohibit a man from joining in a prayer before a game....I honestly can't believe they would have a problem with him leading it either but little joey's civil libertarian parents might and well we all know how much money it will cost to defend that lawsuit in our letigious society so we sit by and watch while our government curtails religious liberty...ironically the reason the pilgrims came here in the first place...

 

I am not a particularly religious person but I do believe that freedom OF religion should not necessarily be interpreted as Freedom FROM religion.....

[GoodDaysAreComing]

My forefathers fought in wars, they died in wars... my grandfather spent several years in heck in WW2 defending our country............If he was alive today,he would be sickened by people like clintblackfan01 and the highly educated FBCOACH who are making this world and our Country as it is today. Every man who signed our Constitution would never conform to buddhist, muslum,athiest,satanic beliefs, The Constitution was never meant to be twisted and interpreted by the Supreme Court as it has been the last 15 years. This is America, we believe in God. Your offended ? then leave or go somewhere else.

[barb]

My forefathers fought in wars, they died in wars... my grandfather spent several years in heck in WW2 defending our country............If he was alive today,he would be sickened by people like clintblackfan01 and the highly educated FBCOACH who are making this world and our Country as it is today. Every man who signed our Constitution would never conform to buddhist, muslum,athiest,satanic beliefs, The Constitution was never meant to be twisted and interpreted by the Supreme Court as it has been the last 15 years. This is America, we believe in God. Your offended ? then leave or go somewhere else.

 

I think perhaps you are right about the signers not conforming to religions other than their own...but they also believed we have the right to choose. The bill of rights was drafted to guarantee civil liberties...those of all Americans, Buddhists, muslims,athiests and yes christians. Yes this is America but no we don't all believe in God. But I believe the first ammendment was meant to protect the freedom of religion from government control...a protection that is afforded to people of all faiths and Christians deserve those same protections. Prohibiting prayer by a person of any faith simply because one is a government employee is just plain outright failure of this government to protect the rights of its people.

[Cavalier33]

Clint, you are wasting your time, most of these folks failed government and have little understanding of the first amendment and the concept of freedom of religion.

 

 

 

Hmmm...Well, I hope my education and experiences will not be derided as FBCOACH does most of these people...if you only knew...I will keep that to myself, however.

 

You see, gentlemen, the question is not a question of law. The question is one of loyalty. If one is loyal to the state, then follow what that state dictates whether or not it contradicts your faith. Just as during the Roman Empire before the conversion of Contantine, loyal Romans followed the dictates of the IMPERIUM and offered insence to the Emperor's image. The Christians did not, they followed the dictates of their faith, and died willingly because of it. The problem comes when one sacrifices their faith to the abstraction that is government. In that situation, the individual willingly waters down their own faith in order to not offend the state or anyone who does not agree with them. What creeps in is the relativism of post-modern thought..."that's not what i think but I cannot push my realities on them." For those individuals who wish to live their faith who also happen to work in government positions to have their freedom of religion suppressed is unconstitutional. BTW seperation of church and state is a hollow arguement completley absent from the Constitution of this land...CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW ESTABLISHING RELIGION...it would take a lyar, lunatic, or illiterate to contrive seperation of church and state from that clause.

 

In one of my experiences coaching in ________ we had two players who were Muslims. We prayed before each competition as a team. They prayed an Islamic prayer as the Our Father...was prayed by the Christian players. I asked them how they felt about that and they were glad of it because it gave them a chance to pray as well. In the young man's words "we have more in common than different"

 

As for me, If I am to be fired for this sort of behavior...I will be glad to suffer for my faith

[old24eagle]

Clint, you are wasting your time, most of these folks failed government and have little understanding of the first amendment and the concept of freedom of religion.

 

If you believe so strongly in freedom of religion and having a moment of silence instead of a prayer be it player or coach led , tell me this. You have a moment of silence for EVERYONE to pray or worship their own god as they wish (which appears to be what you and clintfan wants) What should a coach , teacher , or administrator do when they have players , or students who want to burn a pentagram and sacrifice goats to satan before games or school? Is that O.K.?

[nrgrizzlies]

This has to honestly be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of. What is the diffrence, if it offends you look the other way.Any coach should have the choice to pray with his team, even lead his team in prayer. After all for some young men their football coach is their roll model, so why would we not want them to lead a prayer or two.

 

 

 

A "roll" model?

 

Time to take a longer look at who or what exactly is "dumb" in this scenario.

[macontiger4ever]

Take it how ever you will, but it was my high school coaches that led me to church. My family always belived in GOD and all that he stood for, but we never went to church. My dad would always try and teach/tell me about the ways of

christ. It was not until my freshman year at the first football game that we said the Lord's Prayer that I became truely interested in becoming a regular member. I will never forget my Coaches for extending what my father was trying to tech me.