Does This Sound Familiar?

[BuckLateral]

I almost feel like I should email a friend of mine who is on the Board of Trustees of a private school in Wichita, tell him to sign up as a Plus Member on CoachT, get a screen name, and start reading all the posts under this topic. I don't have the heart to tell him what a can of worms they are about to open and that the "fun" has only just begun..........................

 

Posted on Fri, Mar. 26, 2010

Private Kansas high school teams may face tougher competition

BY JOANNA CHADWICK

The Wichita Eagle

 

A survey of Kansas high school administrators by the state's governing body for high school sports found that many think private schools have an unfair advantage over public schools.

 

So the Kansas State High School Activities Association's board of directors will consider two proposals next month that would either make private schools compete by themselves in postseason play or make them compete at a higher enrollment level.

 

No immediate changes are likely, but proponents of the changes say the discussion is important. Either change would radically alter the structure of the KSHSAA's current classification system.

 

"This would be one of the most significant deviations from the way we've done business in the past," said Bill Faflick, athletic director for the City League, which is the city's seven public high schools that have athletics plus parochial schools Bishop Carroll and Kapaun Mount Carmel.

 

Of the two proposals, the one seemingly more popular would move private schools up one classification. Carroll, with 819 students in grades 10-12 this year, and Kapaun, with 667, would move from Class 5A to 6A, where the smallest school this year has 1,066 students.

 

A private school such as Wichita Trinity Academy, a small Class 4A school, would move up to 5A.

 

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

 

Clay Center principal Mike Adams, a board of directors member who helped draft the proposal, said it would equalize schools, especially because private schools aren't limited to the same boundaries as public schools.

 

"We have to take the kids that walk through our doors," Adams said.

 

In Classes 4A, 3A and 2A, the public schools are rural while the private schools come from urban areas. Trinity is part of the Central Plains League with the Independent School and eight rural schools.

 

The second proposal is more dramatic with seemingly less chance of passing. It puts the state's 26 private schools into their own playoff structure in all sports. It also divides Class 4A into two divisions, essentially creating 11 postseason classes for football and eight for all other sports.

 

States such as Texas and Tennessee have separate public and private state championships, but each has around 300 private schools.

 

"I think it would be unfair to put the 26 schools together and have us supposedly play Berean Academy," Carroll president Tish Nielsen said. Berean Academy, in Elbing, is a 2A school with 103 students in its three upper grades.

 

But many public schools don't think it's fair to compete against private schools.

 

"I think it's become more of an issue in the past 10 years," said Campus principal Myron Regier, who is on the KSHSAA board of directors.

 

Possible explanations include increased emphasis on high school athletics, earning college scholarships and winning state championships.

 

Private schools, which make up 7 percent of the association's member schools, are successful at tournament time. In the current school year, Wichita Collegiate has won Class 3A titles in football, volleyball, girls tennis and boys basketball.

 

At the Class 5A girls basketball tournament, three of the final four teams were private schools, and the boys 5A title was won by Bishop Miege, in Roeland Park.

 

Private schools counter that plenty of public schools have similar traditions — Heights became the first school in the state's largest classification to play for a title in football and boys and girls basketball, and Hutchinson has won six straight football titles.

 

"Of everything completed so far (this school year), privates have won almost 32 percent of all championships, and many public schools feel that private schools have an advantage," Clay Center's Adams said.

 

2006 comparison

 

In 2006, the KSHSAA created a committee that studied the private-public issue. The main finding was that private schools "earn a disproportionate percentage of postseason final eight, final four and championship game opportunities when compared to public schools."

 

"A lot of people thought we stopped short —'You need to go ahead and do something about it,' " KSHSAA executive director Gary Musselman said.

 

Yet the focus on state championships concerns some.

 

"If that's how programs are being evaluated, they're missing the mark," Faflick said. "(Sports is) for connecting kids to school, teaching life lessons, teaching teamwork, discipline. All are evident if they win or lose at the end of the year."

 

Gardner-Edgerton principal Tim Brady, part of the proposal to split private schools from championships, is frustrated watching private schools dominate. He links that dominance to recruiting.

 

Allegations of recruiting and private schools giving athletic scholarships to entice top athletes often crop up. But Musselman said he has found no evidence of recruiting in his 22 years on the job.

 

Carroll's Nielsen is distressed at the questions of recruiting.

 

"I don't want them to question our integrity," she said. "I want them to know we're following the rules and guidelines."

 

Long road to change

 

It is doubtful that April's board of directors meeting will be more than a discussion. If the board of directors votes to agree to either of the proposals — or comes up with its own proposal — there are still hurdles.

 

A majority of the board would have to vote to put it on the agenda for its next meeting, in September, and a majority of all schools in all classes must approve it.

 

Discussion is fine with DeSoto principal David Morford, who was part of the proposal for splitting public and private championships.

 

"It's getting talked about. That's our goal,'' he said.

 

"We don't necessarily have the right answer, but we want to have the dialogue with everybody to have a solution that's workable to everybody."

[PHargis]

Sounds familiar and correct except Privates have abut 50 schools in Tennessee. Evidently no perfect way to put schools together but the cost of seperation in many ways is not good.

[fiftyfifty]

Sounds familiar and correct except Privates have abut 50 schools in Tennessee. Evidently no perfect way to put schools together but the cost of seperation in many ways is not good.

There are over 200 private schools in the state of Tennessee. How long are you going to continue to post incorrect infomation in an attempt to promote your agenda. If you are going to post infomation, then get it right.

[PHargis]

Sounds familiar and correct except Privates have abut 50 schools in Tennessee. Evidently no perfect way to put schools together but the cost of seperation in many ways is not good.

There are over 200 private schools in the state of Tennessee. How long are you going to continue to post incorrect infomation in an attempt to promote your agenda. If you are going to post infomation, then get it right.

BD, you'll soon get that number to 600 with the elementary, middle and high schools in the same schools. Oh I guess class size hs something to do with it. I looked at the list of the rest of the schools and wonder why the complaint of no schools to play during regular season. They aren't even in DII. Fewer students in high school ranks and really no interest in the travel Division II the reason? Again you can't read as the artlcle is on high school. But maybe a lot of us can't understand that the student population of some DII schools could be more than high school.

I guess all of this does put the pressure on winning. Its your job to seek out those other k-12 schools so that your school has other schools to play. and even split up the fifty to 4 Divisions so that all can be a state champion.

Small private schools are very useful and fit a purpose even if it is for a poster to find a way to increase a number in the group he happens to be in. Makes the number seem more powerful, greater than it is, separate from the others, provide reason to attend. Duh.

Put everyone in the same Division by size and zone them. If nothing else works. Build more schools or get the rules changed. This thing of openly recruiting athletes under aid has gotten ridiculous. Change the rules. Put it out in the open. Nobody is checking on it nor does anyone want the job. Don't hide behind a misson. or poor students. Winning with aid is the thing to do. It is the selling point. Let the schools raise more money so those kids can play ball, go to school and win. It is of no one's business except the school, the parent, and the player.

Playing D2 schools mean nothing except a game in the scheme of things. No motivation. Playing private schools, in D1, does and is of interest. Even the students wind up losing identity in their home community. But they do have smaller class size and identity in a smaller school.

[fiftyfifty]

Sounds familiar and correct except Privates have abut 50 schools in Tennessee. Evidently no perfect way to put schools together but the cost of seperation in many ways is not good.

There are over 200 private schools in the state of Tennessee. How long are you going to continue to post incorrect infomation in an attempt to promote your agenda. If you are going to post infomation, then get it right.

BD, you'll soon get that number to 600 with the elementary, middle and high schools in the same schools. Oh I guess class size hs something to do with it. I looked at the list of the rest of the schools and wonder why the complaint of no schools to play during regular season. They aren't even in DII. Fewer students in high school ranks and really no interest in the travel Division II the reason? Again you can't read as the artlcle is on high school. But maybe a lot of us can't understand that the student population of some DII schools could be more than high school.

I guess all of this does put the pressure on winning. Its your job to seek out those other k-12 schools so that your school has other schools to play. and even split up the fifty to 4 Divisions so that all can be a state champion. What in the world are you ranting and raving about. Ryan plays a ten game season year in and year out and has no problems scheduling a full schedule. Your dramatics are comical and border on nonsense. I don't care about any of this dribble except the education part of it. Lastly, was not counting elem, middle and high school as different schools. Elementary and middle are one, but never are they in the same building or on the same campus in Catholic schools except for a couple of exceptions. Its the same with Ensworth, the high school and middle schools are sperated by location and distance.

Small private schools are very useful and fit a purpose even if it is for a poster to find a way to increase a number in the group he happens to be in. Makes the number seem more powerful, greater than it is, separate from the others, provide reason to attend. Duh.

Put everyone in the same Division by size and zone them. If nothing else works. Build more schools or get the rules changed. This thing of openly recruiting athletes under aid has gotten ridiculous. Change the rules. Put it out in the open. Nobody is checking on it nor does anyone want the job. Don't hide behind a misson. or poor students. Winning with aid is the thing to do. It is the selling point. Let the schools raise more money so those kids can play ball, go to school and win. It is of no one's business except the school, the parent, and the player.

Playing D2 schools mean nothing except a game in the scheme of things. No motivation. Playing private schools, in D1, does and is of interest. Even the students wind up losing identity in their home community. But they do have smaller class size and identity in a smaller school.

 

winning with aid is notttttttttttttttttt the thing to do. I find it shameful that you would make a statement such as that. Aid is not for winning period. Aid is for those that need it, ballplayer or not. Anything else would be a miscarriage of justice and fairness. But some don't care about that. Need based aid is for the needy. Nobody is hiding anywhere as your disrepectful statement alluded to. I think you are quite possibly possessing some ideas that are as old as man himself and just as outdated. Another exception to your statement that it is no one's business except the school, player, parent. You are saying that if you keep it quiet or private, then the shameful act of cheating is okay. Thanks for the show of character you displayed with that statement. Some of us just can not and will not think in that mode, thank God. Oh by the way, Catholics schools almost entirely have seperation of elem,middle from high school except on rare occasions, there is no boosting of number of schools. Now set back and think for a while and come up with another negative post concerning private schools. I know you got it in you.

[PHargis]

Very interesting response. But now have resorted to editing my posts with your response. Got to be something in the rules about that. or why would you do it? Don't really know what Ensworth has to do with it unless it makes your points feel better. No one has certainly mentioned the school. Are they the top DII school? Now who are you speaking for now. Are you their spokesman? Why don't you just come out of the closet and tell everyone how you can be so sure your statements are true. You can't and won't. You just hope they are. The rest of my post were suggestions. Certainly not condoning. But at this point it makes no difference. It just says, make your own rules if you are the spokesman or get them changed. Play who you like and how you like. About 50 D2 schools.

[PHargis]

KWoodroof

Medalist

 

Posts: 1074

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:04 pm

Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Private messageMSNM/WLMYIM Re: JPII New Coach

by KWoodroof » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:58 am

 

stbulldog wrote:

cbg wrote:

It's my understanding that Father Ryan brought in two freshmen to play football for the 2009-10 season. This was a way for the school to "test the waters" and see how it worked. I have been told that the two Non-Catholic student/athletes have been successful in both the classroom & on the athletic fields. The end result has been positive and the Irish are looking to bring in around four or five athletes for the 2010-11 school year. I was given this information by a member of the Board of Trust.

 

I know how you feel about athletes being given 100% of the financial aid that they qualify for when other students are only given 50% of what they qualify for according to the people in Princeton. If this is happening and you have a problem with it you may wish to speak with the President of Father Ryan or the Board of Trust.

I believe I will wait and see if what you post is true or just a rumor. If they are getting 100% aid which I highly doubt, then I would speak to the Bishop not the board of trust. I even doubt that Father Ryan has as you describe it brought anybody just for sports, in other words you are stating that they are recruiting for the sole purpose of playing a sport and giving 100% aid irregardless of qualification, thats against the rules of TSSAA and eithics in general, care to elaborate further.

I'm with you...that sounds a little dubious. Looked at from another perspective, I can't see Ryan taking a risk of this magnitude just to benefit a fairly respectable football program that is just one part of a very successful athletic program. If this is true and were exposed, any TSSAA penalties would be trivial compared to the loss of prestige and the moral damage that would accompany. And if you focus on Ryan's freshman team, there's no problem with the football program at all. Their freshman are successful year in and year out. I suspect someone at Ryan has noticed this, and probably doesn't think the solution is two illegal recruits who are receiving a better financial arrangement than a local Catholic child.

[fiftyfifty]

Very interesting response. But now have resorted to editing my posts with your response. Got to be something in the rules about that. or why would you do it? Don't really know what Ensworth has to do with it unless it makes your points feel better. No one has certainly mentioned the school. Are they the top DII school? Now who are you speaking for now. Are you their spokesman? Why don't you just come out of the closet and tell everyone how you can be so sure your statements are true. You can't and won't. You just hope they are. The rest of my post were suggestions. Certainly not condoning. But at this point it makes no difference. It just says, make your own rules if you are the spokesman or get them changed. Play who you like and how you like. About 50 D2 schools.

We already play who we like. We don't want any rules changed, thats your agenda. You want the Phil Hargis TSSAA, but it not going to happen. So ramble on old man, nobody is listening. I speak for myself, but who do you speak for? Answer, nobody same as most of us. The big difference is I accept that without a problem, you don't and are frustrated. Don't you need to focus on volleyball so that the Seagull players won't have to work the concession stand this year.

[fiftyfifty]

KWoodroof

Medalist

 

Posts: 1074

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:04 pm

Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Private messageMSNM/WLMYIM Re: JPII New Coach

by KWoodroof » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:58 am

 

stbulldog wrote:

cbg wrote:

It's my understanding that Father Ryan brought in two freshmen to play football for the 2009-10 season. This was a way for the school to "test the waters" and see how it worked. I have been told that the two Non-Catholic student/athletes have been successful in both the classroom & on the athletic fields. The end result has been positive and the Irish are looking to bring in around four or five athletes for the 2010-11 school year. I was given this information by a member of the Board of Trust.

 

I know how you feel about athletes being given 100% of the financial aid that they qualify for when other students are only given 50% of what they qualify for according to the people in Princeton. If this is happening and you have a problem with it you may wish to speak with the President of Father Ryan or the Board of Trust.

I believe I will wait and see if what you post is true or just a rumor. If they are getting 100% aid which I highly doubt, then I would speak to the Bishop not the board of trust. I even doubt that Father Ryan has as you describe it brought anybody just for sports, in other words you are stating that they are recruiting for the sole purpose of playing a sport and giving 100% aid irregardless of qualification, thats against the rules of TSSAA and eithics in general, care to elaborate further.

I'm with you...that sounds a little dubious. Looked at from another perspective, I can't see Ryan taking a risk of this magnitude just to benefit a fairly respectable football program that is just one part of a very successful athletic program. If this is true and were exposed, any TSSAA penalties would be trivial compared to the loss of prestige and the moral damage that would accompany. And if you focus on Ryan's freshman team, there's no problem with the football program at all. Their freshman are successful year in and year out. I suspect someone at Ryan has noticed this, and probably doesn't think the solution is two illegal recruits who are receiving a better financial arrangement than a local Catholic child.

I see you are now re-posting rumors and lies. Just proves my point, you sir are biased and perhaps more against private schools. This is in response to Hargis posting what BBQ already posted. I have a long memory.

[PHargis]

Posts: 1102

Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:10 am

Location: The Great State Of Tennessee.

Private message Re: Grace Christian Academy faces harsh TSSAA penalties

by stbulldog » Tue May 11, 2010 10:38 am

 

TheEdge2010 wrote:

CHRISTIANS HUH?

 

I don't think I want to be the type of Christian that your post suggests. Its just terrible that Grace Christian reached out to a student in an desperate situation and provided some help and hope for that child. Boy is that unchristian or what. Or is the previous poster a nut. Top

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Report this postReply with quote TheEdge2010

Camper

 

Posts: 21

Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Private messageE-mail TheEdge2010 Re: Grace Christian Academy faces harsh TSSAA penalties

by TheEdge2010 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:57 am

 

I promise you that Grace was warned many times by TSSAA. And I agree that what I said was harsh but people are watching and wondering about whats next at Grace. These folks are the reason the government is considering taxes on churches. I agree this young man needed help but I also know of a non- athlete who wanted to attend there but had no money. No help was offered to him. This young man also needs the help. If you want to be a school where you help your kids with finances then play up like Catholic does in 5A, at least they are honest about helping their kids with their education. They dont mind if people know they help pay for some kids to attend. Sorry for being to Harsh but truthful!Top

[PHargis]

This is generally what happens when an independently run organization, where some don't accept the leadership, operates. Many just go in their own direction. Yes, some of the rules are a little strange but they are the rules for some reason. Sometimes they get a little complicated but they are the rules. If Middle Schools are not under TMSSAA, nothing applies. Local rules.

[PHargis]

Well, we now are getting closer to your real identity and its obvious your purpose. Some are saying that you are a Ryan parent but in no way do you represent the thoughts of the school nor can you post anything concerning a total picture of private schools. You can only give your own opinion . It is purely that. Others also say that this screen name is used by others besides yourself. It is interesting where the computer you post on is located. Take care of your school and your interests. This has taken up too much of my time. Back to ignore.