Question re: Runner advancing to second on a walk?

[rSquared]

I've always seen it called, for many years now, that a runner CAN advance to second on a walk (situation: there is a runner on third) provided that she does not stop running. This happened in a game this week in which we were playing and our runner was told to go back to first because the pitcher had the ball in the circle. We argued, but to no avail. I have since tried to find this matter addressed in the rule book, but have thus far been unsuccessful.

The umpire that made this call is very unreliable and his home plate partner just simply admitted that he wasn't sure!

Any help from the softball gurus? Coaches, umpires, etc???

 

Thanks in advance!

[KenHawk]

The ball is still live. There is no rule that prohibits a batter runner from advancing more than one base on a base on balls, as long as the batter runner does not stop at first base. She may even round first base, stop, and then attempt to go to second immediately or go back to first. A base on balls is no different than a base hit... just because the ball is thrown to the pitcher in the circle does not keep runners from continuing to advance. Umpire ruled incorrectly in your situation.

[TBALLEXPERT]

I've always seen it called, for many years now, that a runner CAN advance to second on a walk (situation: there is a runner on third) provided that she does not stop running. This happened in a game this week in which we were playing and our runner was told to go back to first because the pitcher had the ball in the circle. We argued, but to no avail. I have since tried to find this matter addressed in the rule book, but have thus far been unsuccessful.

The umpire that made this call is very unreliable and his home plate partner just simply admitted that he wasn't sure!

Any help from the softball gurus? Coaches, umpires, etc???

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Sounds like another typical misinformed T$$AA umpire making the wrong call..... If the runner rounds first base & makes no motion back towards first base she may continue as far as she desires at her own risk. It is up to the defensive team to stop her........ not the umpire!

 

If the runner makes a motion back to first base then continues to second she should be called out if the ball is in the circle

 

 

[rSquared]

Thanks Coach H. and teeballexpert! I was almost certain that the umpire had made the wrong call, but I couldn't find anything certain about it in the rule book when I checked. Just so no one gets the wrong idea, judging by my listed coacht "location," this was not a Knoxville association official. It was an official from the Jefferson association. Certainly don't want to give the official's name here, but maybe I should give Arnaz Cantrell, the assigning officer, a call to let him know which official needs to learn from this mistake!

 

Thanks again guys,

---rSquared

[KenHawk]

By the way...if, for any reason ball four became a dead ball (Wild pitch touched a spectator or some equipment for example), the umpire's ruling would have been correct. But, based on the way you described the situation, I believe the umpire missed the call. Good luck the rest of your season.

[rSquared]

No, Coach, there was no dead ball situation that occured on ball four.

Thanks again, and good luck to your team also.

 

---rSquared (Union Co.)

[etownsparky]

I've always seen it called, for many years now, that a runner CAN advance to second on a walk (situation: there is a runner on third) provided that she does not stop running. This happened in a game this week in which we were playing and our runner was told to go back to first because the pitcher had the ball in the circle. We argued, but to no avail. I have since tried to find this matter addressed in the rule book, but have thus far been unsuccessful.

The umpire that made this call is very unreliable and his home plate partner just simply admitted that he wasn't sure!

Any help from the softball gurus? Coaches, umpires, etc???

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Sounds like another typical misinformed T$$AA umpire making the wrong call..... If the runner rounds first base & makes no motion back towards first base she may continue as far as she desires at her own risk. It is up to the defensive team to stop her........ not the umpire!

 

If the runner makes a motion back to first base then continues to second she should be called out if the ball is in the circle

 

 

 

Tball - My understanding of the rule is the same as yours. However, IMO there's another common misinterpretation of the rule. My daughter was recently called out in a Jr. High game for rounding first on a walk and then returning to first. The umpire maintained that once she rounded first toward second that she couldn't return to first base. She simply rounded first (just as a hitter/runner would on a single), stopped and returned to first base. Am I wrong or did he blow the call?

[TBALLEXPERT]

I've always seen it called, for many years now, that a runner CAN advance to second on a walk (situation: there is a runner on third) provided that she does not stop running. This happened in a game this week in which we were playing and our runner was told to go back to first because the pitcher had the ball in the circle. We argued, but to no avail. I have since tried to find this matter addressed in the rule book, but have thus far been unsuccessful.

The umpire that made this call is very unreliable and his home plate partner just simply admitted that he wasn't sure!

Any help from the softball gurus? Coaches, umpires, etc???

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Sounds like another typical misinformed T$$AA umpire making the wrong call..... If the runner rounds first base & makes no motion back towards first base she may continue as far as she desires at her own risk. It is up to the defensive team to stop her........ not the umpire!

 

If the runner makes a motion back to first base then continues to second she should be called out if the ball is in the circle

 

 

 

Tball - My understanding of the rule is the same as yours. However, IMO there's another common misinterpretation of the rule. My daughter was recently called out in a Jr. High game for rounding first on a walk and then returning to first. The umpire maintained that once she rounded first toward second that she couldn't return to first base. She simply rounded first (just as a hitter/runner would on a single), stopped and returned to first base. Am I wrong or did he blow the call?

 

Yes he blew the call..... If your DD did infact did round first base then imediatly return to first base with no re-attempt to advance to second base.

 

This call is kinda tricky & is seldom called correctly due to the fact that there are so many possibilities that can change the actual call that should be made in the exact specific situation...

 

Example- Batter walks.... round first base begins towards second.... pitcher begins to throw the ball to second base.... base runner reverses back towards first & safely gets back to first base.. Base runner is "SAFE" in this situation since the pitcher made an action to throw her out during the attempt.

 

Bottom line is once the defensive team begins an attempt to get the base runner out all the technicalities are over it's just a game of pickle from then. But the base runner had better not change her mind about going to second once she has decided to go back to first or she is "out"..... Unless the pitcher tries to throw her out at first....then it's just a game of pickle again....

 

Also, the pitcher does not even have to actually throw the ball....just raising her arm making a throwing motion is enough action by the pitcher to allow the runner to attempt an advance in either direction. I hope this clear's all that up for you! The only problem is.... what the umpire during your specific game thinks he/she knows!

 

 

[TBLyman]

Found this link with reference to the rule book. It all sounds correct umpire made a poor call.

http://archive.littleleague.org/learn/newsletters/Fairball_Newsletter/2009/fbmay09/Softball_Base_Running.htm