referees

[senator]

sometimes the better the refs the more complaints,most folks want every thing called on other team and none on them.In my 30 years of bb I've never seen a ref beat a team, bad calls yes but it goes both ways and a missed shot or a turnover should't be blamed on a ref. There is certainly some better than others same as in anything else and I believe a school can blackball the weak refs and most of them don't last long.

Edited February 12, 2011 by senator

[rabbitranch]

sometimes the better the refs the more complaints,most folks want every thing called on other team and none on them.In my 30 years of bb I've never seen a ref beat a team, bad calls yes but it goes both ways and a missed shot or a turnover should't be blamed on a ref. There is certainly some better than others same as in anything else and I believe a school can blackball the weak refs and most of them don't last long.

Apparently you and I have been watching different games. I've been a huge fan for 40 or more years and have watched A LOT of games during this time. I have seen MANY games outcome determined by the refs. Some of those have been by inept refs and some by deliberate calls or no calls by poor excuses of a human being that would steal from a kid. I have nothing against refs. I have several friends that referee, and no, I'm not one of those that want every call to go my team's way. I fully understand that missed calls and bad calls (simple human error)are part of the game and can be expected. My point being; The quality of officiating seems to be deteriorating every year and the weak refs are still here alongside the good ones. I don't know if there is an answer but personally I'd rather see some of the refs that I've watched the last few years texting, than making their deliberate bad calls and no calls.

[tradertwo]

Apparently you and I have been watching different games. I've been a huge fan for 40 or more years and have watched A LOT of games during this time. I have seen MANY games outcome determined by the refs. Some of those have been by inept refs and some by deliberate calls or no calls by poor excuses of a human being that would steal from a kid. I have nothing against refs. I have several friends that referee, and no, I'm not one of those that want every call to go my team's way. I fully understand that missed calls and bad calls (simple human error)are part of the game and can be expected. My point being; The quality of officiating seems to be deteriorating every year and the weak refs are still here alongside the good ones. I don't know if there is an answer but personally I'd rather see some of the refs that I've watched the last few years texting, than making their deliberate bad calls and no calls.

Good post! I too have some friends who are ref's and do not doubt that they are men(in this case)who have scruples enough not to let any bias intentionaly show on the floor,nether am I gullible enough to believe that emotions and situations don't dictate some of the calls made/not made that were incorrect....I can live with that.I'm with you also in the fact that I've witnessed,on rare occasions,the deliberate intentions of officials to affect the outcome of the game,or to hamper an individual player,and that's shameful.More often the case,the calling is ome-sided because the talent is one-sided...case in point,Scotts Hill hosted Trinity Christian last night and the calling was the worst I've seen this season favoring T.C.,yet S.H. still won comfortably.I witnessed one ref in particular 'baiting' a player who was frustrated by a bad non call(she'd just been ridden out of bounds on one end),followed by a bad call(whistled for a foul not commited)on the other,by initiating an arguement with her.This guy said something to her three times before she responded to his remarks,and followed her around the floor until coach Chandler intercepted him...professional,not at all,trying to affect the outcome of the game...probably not,just a subconcious(hey,I'm a glass half full kind'a guy)attempt to keep the game from being lopsided.It's not realistic to expect officiating to be perfect,but some of them need to make an effort to "call it as they see it" one play at a time,with no other factors involved.

Edited February 12, 2011 by tradertwo

[etownsparky]

Just in case by some odd chance there is a supervisor from District 4 that reads this post (and cares), I have a few comments based on the EHS vs CAK girls game last night in Knoxville. Let me start by saying that I am not blaming the outcome of the game on the officials. The team that deserved to win, won the game last night. However, if the officials (both JV and varsity) that called last night's games are representative of the best in that district, then God please help me not to complain about District 1 officials anymore. First, the varsity officials were very late arriving on the floor before the game. Again they were late returning to the floor before the start of the second half. Secondly, I don't think any of the 3 understand how to assess a traveling violation. If my recollection is correct, they called two on EHS for the game and both were accurate. However, there were at minimum 5 or 6 blatant violations by CAK players, none of which were whistled. A couple of these no calls were at critical points in the game when subsequent plays resulted in baskets that would have ordinarily been disallowed. The head official was a diminutive man that appeared to be more concerned with being seen and letting folks know who was in charge rather than just calling the game. During one play under the EHS basket, he missed an obvious foul on a shot attempt by an EHS player because he had his head turned chastising an EHS cheerleader (I can only assume he would have called the obvious foul had he seen it, but who knows after watching him call the entire game). IMO there was only one of the three that was a decent official. The other two need to find some rec league work somewhere to hone their skills. Unfortunately, I'm sure they feel they are already superior and ready to make the leap to the SEC. Typically, that attitude is the root of the problem anyway. My two cents...

[LtDan]

Just in case by some odd chance there is a supervisor from District 4 that reads this post (and cares), I have a few comments based on the EHS vs CAK girls game last night in Knoxville. Let me start by saying that I am not blaming the outcome of the game on the officials. The team that deserved to win, won the game last night. However, if the officials (both JV and varsity) that called last night's games are representative of the best in that district, then God please help me not to complain about District 1 officials anymore. First, the varsity officials were very late arriving on the floor before the game. Again they were late returning to the floor before the start of the second half. Secondly, I don't think any of the 3 understand how to assess a traveling violation. If my recollection is correct, they called two on EHS for the game and both were accurate. However, there were at minimum 5 or 6 blatant violations by CAK players, none of which were whistled. A couple of these no calls were at critical points in the game when subsequent plays resulted in baskets that would have ordinarily been disallowed. The head official was a diminutive man that appeared to be more concerned with being seen and letting folks know who was in charge rather than just calling the game. During one play under the EHS basket, he missed an obvious foul on a shot attempt by an EHS player because he had his head turned chastising an EHS cheerleader (I can only assume he would have called the obvious foul had he seen it, but who knows after watching him call the entire game). IMO there was only one of the three that was a decent official. The other two need to find some rec league work somewhere to hone their skills. Unfortunately, I'm sure they feel they are already superior and ready to make the leap to the SEC. Typically, that attitude is the root of the problem anyway. My two cents...

 

alot of ref bashing not to blame it on them.

[etownsparky]

alot of ref bashing not to blame it on them.

Nope, just truth. I would have felt the same way about the officiating if EHS would have won. The officials are not to blame for the Lady Cyclones miscues. However, they are absolutely responsible for their unprofessional behavior and poor performance. I didn't get into the JV games, but those two clowns were terrible. The CAK fans agreed - there was a reason these guys were calling JV.

Edited February 14, 2011 by etownsparky

[TwinCityT]

Would have to agree w/esparky ...some officating crews in D4 are below average. Usually the crew has 1 ref that makes the calls and 2 that just stand around and defer to the dominate official. Have saw 2 CAK home games....IMO the 8th grade PG carries the ball 50% of the time. Only once in 2 games was this called...it does give her a huge advantage. Will be interesting to see if regional refs will call traveling.

[pancon]

Would have to agree w/esparky ...some officating crews in D4 are below average. Usually the crew has 1 ref that makes the calls and 2 that just stand around and defer to the dominate official. Have saw 2 CAK home games....IMO the 8th grade PG carries the ball 50% of the time. Only once in 2 games was this called...it does give her a huge advantage. Will be interesting to see if regional refs will call traveling.

 

WOW! Someone else thinks that refs don't call the carry! I see girls carry the ball ALL THE TIME! Everyone screams: 'carry, carry, carry!' but they just never call it. What's the deal? It is an unfair advantage!!! Call the game!!!! I'm sick of this 'no call'!

[LtDan]

Nope, just truth. I would have felt the same way about the officiating if EHS would have won. The officials are not to blame for the Lady Cyclones miscues. However, they are absolutley responsible for their unprofessional behavior and poor performance. I didn't get into the JV games, but those two clowns were terrible. The CAK fans agreed - there was a reason these guys were calling JV.

Why haven't you posted on this thread before the loss? It has been up for over a week. You are now on this thread after the loss. If the refs have been bad all season you should have said something before now because now it appears you are sulking and from the threads i have read, you make your ft's, game over. Maybe the weak schedule is catching up to you and not the refs from your recollection?

[etownsparky]

Why haven't you posted on this thread before the loss? It has been up for over a week. You are now on this thread after the loss. If the refs have been bad all season you should have said something before now because now it appears you are sulking and from the threads i have read, you make your ft's, game over. Maybe the weak schedule is catching up to you and not the refs from your recollection?

The post has to do with this being the first time I've seen District 4 officials and not the loss. I had no reason to comment before now because I had not seen any of them call a game. I'm not sulking at all. If you actually read my other posts, I made no excuses and acknowledged that CAK beat EHS. I outlined the reasons for the loss in my opinion: CAK's good play, the missed FTs, missed chip shots, poor defense and lack of rebounding. The EHS schedule is about as strong as it could be given the circumstances. There's nothing a team can do about conference games. No matter what you do, 10 games are dictated in the TRC. I'd put the remaining games on EHS's schedule up against most others. Why do you think CAK was on the schedule? Regardless, it appears you are either one of the officials from the game, a friend/sympothizer of one of them, or someone that just wants to stir the pot. These are my opinions, you are entitled to yours...

[The Highlander]

9A isn't the only place lacking decent, consistent officiating! Please don't feel singled out. Of course, most of us agree with the ref when the call/no call benefits our team, me included. At the CD/CHS game last night, we got away with at least one walk that was blatant, but so did CD. I think that in general, the "mistakes" in the game tend to even each other out. Although, one bad call last night sent us into overtime instead of the game ending if it had been called properly. To his credit, I understand that a T$$AA supervisor was at the game, and spoke with the official that made the bad call. I wish there were more oversight at conference and tournament games at least.

 

What bothers me is the refs that intentionally make bad calls because they don't like a particular team, coach, player, or whatever. These should be reported, blackballed, or gotten rid of in some other manner. We have been able to successfully ensure one man will never be able to call a Cloudland game again, now if we can get his ex-wife and one other fellow blackballed, our refs will be overall much better. There are actually two men calling jv in our area that are far too old to keep up with the game, and really don't have good enough vision or quick enough reactions to even be doing that.

 

To the person in this thread that said they had never seen a ref cost a team a game, you are either unfamiliar with basketball, haven't watched many games, are married to a ref, or are some other form of life. I can easily come up with three examples in my career as a coach and parent. Not many in all the years I've been doing this, but those three are very clear in my mind.

 

Possibly, you actually meant to say that the ref cannot be blamed for most losses, and that is accurate. I feel that if you do all you can to ensure it isn't a close game, it will be much harder for the ref to be a factor, no matter how hard they try. Unfortunately, in a close game, officiating can very easily be the determining factor in which team will win.

[tradertwo]

Thought I'd give this one a 'couple days to simmer and see if I felt different about posting...I dont.The officiating in the South Gibson/Scotts Hill game was horrific.I'll begin by saying it was not biased,just terribly inconsistant.On one occasion a collision any linebacker in the state would have been proud of resulted in a non call,while fans on both sides stood to see if the kids were OK.I've seen "flops" where a no-call was correct, but the ballhandler barrelled into a defender at full sprint,and the smack of the collision was heard,I was told later,in the hallway.In another instance a player knocked three others to the floor attempting to rebound her own miss when any of the three had position(one of the three was a teammate),again a no call.Many other "stiffarm" hand checks were let slide with no whistle,yet call after call was made for touchy,non consequencial contact.This is not a "sour grapes" post,the team I follow won comfortably,nor is it one of those "we had to beat the refs'" belly-ache rants which I despise to hear.The fact is that blatent,hard contact was not called on numerous occasions,balls were looped over dribblers heads with no whistle,and serveral phantom calls were made by the same official in position to have made the obvious ones,but chose not to.Aside from the kids having no idea of the leeway they were to be allowed in the game,the contact permited could have resulted in tempers flaring if not for both teams being comprised of cool-headed kids and coaches.Bottom line,the crews chosen for the tournaments should be graded best an area has to offer,and that was definately not the case Friday night.