D-II AP Poll. Why can't we get this right?

[shakinthefat]

What's the stink all about? Everyone goes to the playoff regardless of ranking. Don't get bent out of shape!

[owlbooster]

I don't think there's a "stink" or anybody is "bent out of shape." The original question was why can't "we" (meaning "they") get it right; the general order seems so obvious to us who follow D II. The apparent answer is that the voters don't spend any time investigating in order to "get it right", especially for D II. We're just the teams that play for the gold ball on Thursday.... Many apparently can't even discern the difference between A and AA. Put simply, they don't care and it's a meaningless poll.

Edited September 30, 2012 by owlbooster

[TheBigRedDog]

I don't think there's a "stink" or anybody is "bent out of shape." The original question was why can't "we" (meaning "they") get it right; the general order seems so obvious to us who follow D II. The apparent answer is that the voters don't spend any time investigating in order to "get it right", especially for D II. We're just the teams that play for the gold ball on Thursday.... Many apparently can't even discern the difference between A and AA. Put simply, they don't care and it's a meaningless poll.

 

Bingo.

[warhawk]

As stated earlier someone really should send them an email and tell them about the obvious discrepancy in the two leagues. ....make sure to include the stats of the ECS-Briarcrest game. Yes, ECS lost but clearly won in all other categories. I think some of the teams in D2A play a better football game than people give em credit for.

[WesVLT]

As stated earlier someone really should send them an email and tell them about the obvious discrepancy in the two leagues. ....make sure to include the stats of the ECS-Briarcrest game. Yes, ECS lost but clearly won in all other categories. I think some of the teams in D2A play a better football game than people give em credit for.

Done. Here's my email to the voters (I get the emails because I voted from 2009-2011):

 

Good poll, everyone. You do a diligent job with your research and voting. As a 2009-2011 voter who still gets these emails (I'm no longer a media member and thus ineligible), I wanted to make one quick point:

As you likely know, DII is split into two divisions. While DII-A features teams with strong tradition, it is a collection of smaller schools that have fared poorly against teams from DII-AA. The larger class is 10-1 against the smaller since 2010. Webb, St. George's and USJ are having good seasons, but most would agree they are not on the same level as MUS, CBHS, MBA, Baylor, etc.

As an example, when Webb played in DII-AA for two seasons, it went 5-8 in league play. When the Spartans moved down to DII-A, they went 18-1 in league play during the next two seasons, winning two state titles.

The two leagues are far from equal. It would be fairer for each league to have its own poll instead of being lumped together. But in the meantime, ranking Webb and St. George's ahead of teams like MUS, CBHS and MBA is not representative of the merits of those squads. If you believe differently, continue voting as you wish. But if you don't have a DII team in your area and aren't familiar with the differences between the two leagues, hopefully this helps.

That's all. Please receive this message in the way it was intended -- not as criticism but as a nugget of information. Happy voting!

[RedRobin]

And mus beats cbhs, now what?

 

New poll out today - mighty Webb now number 3, hot on the heels on Ensworth and BA!!

[Spartan4Life]

Done. Here's my email to the voters (I get the emails because I voted from 2009-2011):

 

Good poll, everyone. You do a diligent job with your research and voting. As a 2009-2011 voter who still gets these emails (I'm no longer a media member and thus ineligible), I wanted to make one quick point:

 

As you likely know, DII is split into two divisions. While DII-A features teams with strong tradition, it is a collection of smaller schools that have fared poorly against teams from DII-AA. The larger class is 10-1 against the smaller since 2010. Webb, St. George's and USJ are having good seasons, but most would agree they are not on the same level as MUS, CBHS, MBA, Baylor, etc.

 

As an example, when Webb played in DII-AA for two seasons, it went 5-8 in league play. When the Spartans moved down to DII-A, they went 18-1 in league play during the next two seasons, winning two state titles.

 

The two leagues are far from equal. It would be fairer for each league to have its own poll instead of being lumped together. But in the meantime, ranking Webb and St. George's ahead of teams like MUS, CBHS and MBA is not representative of the merits of those squads. If you believe differently, continue voting as you wish. But if you don't have a DII team in your area and aren't familiar with the differences between the two leagues, hopefully this helps.

 

That's all. Please receive this message in the way it was intended -- not as criticism but as a nugget of information. Happy voting!

 

As former Webb player DIV II-AA is the best division in the state IMO, the teams are stacked and very well coached. One of webbs weakest teams was in 2008 a year they only went 4-6 and talent was down. Previous year webb was on3 of the better teams in divsion II-AA losing to MBA in the playoffs. Of course MBA had violations and all the games they won that year were forfeited (needles to say they were the best team in the state that year). The next year webb struggled not due to superior competition but due to shooting themselves in the foot. the 2009 and 2010 Webb teams were loaded with talent compared to 2008. Now do i think Webb would have won two championship in a row in the larger division...no. Do i think the spartans would have made the playoffs winning at least 7 games each year, defiantly. Webb has talent that matches almost any team in the state, Todd Kelly Jr, Aaron Blance, etc. But the depth is the reason it would be hard to play in the larger division now. Numbers are down from previous years making DIV II-A a good place for us now until we reload with larger number like we use to have.

[RedRobin]

As former Webb player DIV II-AA is the best division in the state IMO, the teams are stacked and very well coached. One of webbs weakest teams was in 2008 a year they only went 4-6 and talent was down. Previous year webb was on3 of the better teams in divsion II-AA losing to MBA in the playoffs. Of course MBA had violations and all the games they won that year were forfeited (needles to say they were the best team in the state that year). The next year webb struggled not due to superior competition but due to shooting themselves in the foot. the 2009 and 2010 Webb teams were loaded with talent compared to 2008. Now do i think Webb would have won two championship in a row in the larger division...no. Do i think the spartans would have made the playoffs winning at least 7 games each year, defiantly. Webb has talent that matches almost any team in the state, Todd Kelly Jr, Aaron Blance, etc. But the depth is the reason it would be hard to play in the larger division now. Numbers are down from previous years making DIV II-A a good place for us now until we reload with larger number like we use to have.

 

The problem is that Webb is beating up on schools that are a fraction of its size. Some of those schools barely have 25 males in their senior classes. Easy to say how well you would have done playing against "the big boys", but we will never know, since Webb chose not to. I am not blaming Webb, since they are playing in the division that TSSAA says they can, but I do think the enrollment limit for D2-A should be lowered to 350-400, which I think would leave in BGA, but boot Webb and ECS up to D2-AA, where they should be. Perhaps the reason Webb's football numbers are down is because there just isn't much excitement about a program playing schools half (and less than half) its size which are not traditional rivalries.

[WesVLT]

Good points. I covered all those Webb teams and know them well. You're right -- they were very competitive. BA, MBA and Ensworth each blew them out at least once, but the Spartans were middle-of-the-road. Webb has been at the top of its classification since moving down. But that classification as a whole -- and most of its best teams -- don't stack up well against the bigger, deeper DII-AA.

[Spartan4Life]

The problem is that Webb is beating up on schools that are a fraction of its size. Some of those schools barely have 25 males in their senior classes. Easy to say how well you would have done playing against "the big boys", but we will never know, since Webb chose not to. I am not blaming Webb, since they are playing in the division that TSSAA says they can, but I do think the enrollment limit for D2-A should be lowered to 350-400, which I think would leave in BGA, but boot Webb and ECS up to D2-AA, where they should be. Perhaps the reason Webb's football numbers are down is because there just isn't much excitement about a program playing schools half (and less than half) its size which are not traditional rivalries.

 

That may very well be true. We need to solve the numbers problem fast. They have declining each year since 2009. As of right now though Webb doesnt have many more players than most schools in DIV II-A..just more athletic ones. As a player at Webb i saw how we competed with the Big boys with less talent in 2007 and 2008, each game was close minus MBA, and one Ensworth game. Webb won about half, lost about half, many of the losses came in 2008 when the talent was down and the team was young. Seeing how the 2009 and 2010 team was loaded with seniors and college talent its safe to assume webb would have been very competitive in the big division (which have some of the best teams in the state). Caleb Blance, Aaron Blance, Todd Kelly Jr, Tre Waters, Jim Dolinak, Micheal Carrillon, Clark Johnson, and Dakota Jenkins are just a few of the players on that 2009 and 2010 teams that had offers from colleges, most of them being Division I schools. Many of them went on to play. All i'm saying is Webb would definatly compete but i agree many of the teams in Divsion II-A outside of a couple could not come close to competing with the big division.

[Spartan4Life]

Good points. I covered all those Webb teams and know them well. You're right -- they were very competitive. BA, MBA and Ensworth each blew them out at least once, but the Spartans were middle-of-the-road. Webb has been at the top of its classification since moving down. But that classification as a whole -- and most of its best teams -- don't stack up well against the bigger, deeper DII-AA.

 

Yes your right on, but we never played Brentwood Academy.

[owlbooster]

As stated earlier someone really should send them an email and tell them about the obvious discrepancy in the two leagues. ....make sure to include the stats of the ECS-Briarcrest game. Yes, ECS lost but clearly won in all other categories. I think some of the teams in D2A play a better football game than people give em credit for.

 

I think most who follow D II closely realize that on a given night the best A teams can compete with or even beat many of the AA teams, simply not the better ones. Briarcrest is improved but still not in the upper half of AA. The result of the ECHS-CBHS game this Friday should be more telling.

Edited October 2, 2012 by owlbooster