Is the split coming?

[1925Kee]

Earlier you said the TSSAA was bad, and it would not be hard to find something better. Now you're standing with them and defending their position.

 

As for football, no. Eight classifications results in 8 trophies. Out of some 300 or so teams, that's hardly "everyone" getting a trophy. Are you for or against 8 classifications in football? If you ran the circus, would you put Maryville football in a division with Coalfield?

 

From what I can tell, privates are against the split because they enjoy beating the crap out of teams that have no chance to compete with them. I haven't seen any other reason that makes sense.

Edited November 6, 2014 by 1925Kee

[Booger]

2013-14 state championships in the classes affect by private schools:

Baseball: A-Jackson Christian AA-CAK

Girls Soccer: A-AA Knox Catholic

Volleyball: A-Goodpasture

Boys Golf: Lipscomb

Girls Golf: Boyd Buchannon?

Boys Soccer: CPA

Girls Tennis: CAK

Boy Tennis: Knox Catholic

Track anf Field: 10 of the 18 events were won by private schools in the girls side

 

I would say from just last school year (2013-14) it is definetly not just a girls soccer issue. If i had more time i am sure it would look very similar going back even further.

 

Just curious as well. In TN, if a high school coach goes to a middle school or elementary school during recess and picks out athletes they think would be good at their sport and steers them into a particular program, is that not the definition of recruiting which is strongly against the rules to play in division one in our state?

..have you ever spent anytime in or around the North Jackson, AL-South Pittsburg-Marion County middle and elementary schools during recess. Recruiting at is best. Public they are. I am sure we go to many other districts in the state in Public schools a see this recruiting far more than any Private school. Lets take a trip up to Maryville-Alcoa-Hermitage.

 

If this was a softball forum, no one would be crying foul

[ballbasher30]

To address ladymustangcoach's statement of cost, I actually think it would be the same or less travel for the privates. Here is why i say this.

 

Right now in DII A and AA the middle tn schools travel to chattanooga and knoxville to play games in football and other sports as their is not enough DII schools in their area. Examples are BGA playing at Webb, McCallie playing at Ensworth and so forth. If you took the private schools that play in DI, add them to the DII groups, their is actually more teams in your area to play and you would not have the travel you currently do for games.

 

Also, A and AA exist in the private school division so you would be grouped with similar sized schools. It would also allow for more money for the T$$AA if you think about it. Right now they only take 4 teams to the girls state tournament instead of 8 like in public division. they could expand that to 8 and add two more games per class for more gate money. And in football, it could add more 1st round games at close schools and not give first round byes to the top two or three teams. If the TSSAA thought of it that way, they would jump at the chance as they usually look at dollar signs more than anyhting.

 

as a lady mustang supporter, I assume you are from Lipscomb Academy. If i were you, I would be against the split as well. This would mean you would have to play CPA, Ensworth, USN, BGA, Brentwood Academy, Father Ryan, and JPII instead of the aweful public schools in Nashville and who would want to do that.

[LadyMustangsCoach]

2013-14 state championships in the classes affect by private schools:

Baseball: A-Jackson Christian AA-CAK

Girls Soccer: A-AA Knox Catholic

Volleyball: A-Goodpasture

Boys Golf: Lipscomb

Girls Golf: Boyd Buchannon?

Boys Soccer: CPA

Girls Tennis: CAK

Boy Tennis: Knox Catholic

Track anf Field: 10 of the 18 events were won by private schools in the girls side

 

I would say from just last school year (2013-14) it is definetly not just a girls soccer issue. If i had more time i am sure it would look very similar going back even further.

 

Just curious as well. In TN, if a high school coach goes to a middle school or elementary school during recess and picks out athletes they think would be good at their sport and steers them into a particular program, is that not the definition of recruiting which is strongly against the rules to play in division one in our state?

 

Not sure if it makes sense to include Golf and Tennis in the conversation.  I believe that there are equal number of teams from private and public schools in those competitions.  And those are money sports.  Golf team needs what 2 scores (2 players)?  Not really a team game.  I think Signal Mtn has won the girls golf championship every year since they opened (they are a public school, but one from a well to do area).

[LadyMustangsCoach]

To address ladymustangcoach's statement of cost, I actually think it would be the same or less travel for the privates. Here is why i say this.

 

Right now in DII A and AA the middle tn schools travel to chattanooga and knoxville to play games in football and other sports as their is not enough DII schools in their area. Examples are BGA playing at Webb, McCallie playing at Ensworth and so forth. If you took the private schools that play in DI, add them to the DII groups, their is actually more teams in your area to play and you would not have the travel you currently do for games.

 

Also, A and AA exist in the private school division so you would be grouped with similar sized schools. It would also allow for more money for the T$$AA if you think about it. Right now they only take 4 teams to the girls state tournament instead of 8 like in public division. they could expand that to 8 and add two more games per class for more gate money. And in football, it could add more 1st round games at close schools and not give first round byes to the top two or three teams. If the TSSAA thought of it that way, they would jump at the chance as they usually look at dollar signs more than anyhting.

 

as a lady mustang supporter, I assume you are from Lipscomb Academy. If i were you, I would be against the split as well. This would mean you would have to play CPA, Ensworth, USN, BGA, Brentwood Academy, Father Ryan, and JPII instead of the aweful public schools in Nashville and who would want to do that.

 

Actually, my kids go to a small private in Chattanooga.  A school that gets their but whipped in nearly every boys sport, but does have some strong girls sports.

 

I guess the travel issue varies greatly by local, and by sport.  Right now we travel for soccer on average an hour for games (because of District setup).  Other sports are able to play closer just due to the district set up.

 

I just don't think there is a need to split.  What does it accomplish?  The few powerhouse privates will still win, and the majority of the privates will continue to not win state championships. 

 

While I do have issues with TSSAA (horrible job managing officiating standards, relocating every state tournament to one area and the 50/50 rule topping my list), on this issue I think they are at a manageable compromise.

 

And if TSSAA leadership changes and does force a complete private/public split, I do strongly believe the privates will leave TSSAA and start their own association.  The reason the allow D2 is they did not want those schools to leave TSSAA.  Otherwise they would have said NO SCHOLARSHIPS for anyone.

 

And I guess my perspective on State Championships is different from most here.  Growing up in another state where there were 3 state champions and the schools were 1,500 to 3,500 in enrollment, winning a state title was something special.  Being the best of 40 teams??? What does that say?

[1925Kee]

I just don't think there is a need to split.  What does it accomplish?  The few powerhouse privates will still win, and the majority of the privates will continue to not win state championships.

And the vast majority of publics will not win at all.

 

And I guess my perspective on State Championships is different from most here.  Growing up in another state where there were 3 state champions and the schools were 1,500 to 3,500 in enrollment, winning a state title was something special.  Being the best of 40 teams??? What does that say?

It says you were the best of your classification. It recognizes there are differences in schools, and not only in enrollment size. There are also differences in money and in culture. As it is now, TSSAA looks only at enrollment size and assumes everything else is the same. You and I both know that's BS.

 

As it is, the system now pits what amounts to club teams (private) against rec teams (public). So what does that say about a private school's accomplishments? That they won their region by pounding the rec teams?

 

Would Chattanooga United schedule a game with AYSO?

[Impactdad22]

Most private schools in Middle TN only have a few scattered travel players and still manage to play fairly well.  If you want to see travel players, go to Williamson County and check out the "public" schools: Franklin, Ravenwood, Brentwood, Independence, etc. Is it fair for those teams to be stacked with "travel players"? 

[1925Kee]

If you want to see travel players, go to Williamson County and check out the "public" schools: Franklin, Ravenwood, Brentwood, Independence, etc. Is it fair for those teams to be stacked with "travel players"? 

It's fair if they are playing similar competition. As I said, large high schools have enough enrollment to compete with private schools. Small high schools do not. For your example, you used large high schools in wealthy areas. Are you really surprised they can compete with privates?

[LadyMustangsCoach]

How about this?  We take all of the schools that are really bad in a given sport and have never won a state championship and put them in their own classification. 

 

Of course I am joking, but no matter what scenario you devise to make the competition "fair", it will be your opinion and someone will find a problem with it.  Just look at college football.  More money than Moses and they can not devise a system that everyone likes or agrees with. 

 

Kids that get to play in a State Tournament should consider themselves very fortunate, no matter what the sport.  WE should not water down the competition and devalue the accomplishment. 

 

Those in favor of splitting need to acknowledge that most Private Schools do not win state championships, and many never even get close.  Right?  So change the system to address a half dozen schools that happen to be private that win a state title? 

 

1925Kee, you clearly has a specific axe to grind up in Knoxville.  Not saying that situation is not a bad one for some of the public schools in that area.  But this proposed split affects the ENTIRE state, and every sport.

 

Enough of my thoughts on this subject, good conversation, but its a moot point.  TSSAA is not going to change it.

[Impactdad22]

Compete with?  Most of the time, they handily beat the private schools.  How about a "public" school in a not-so-wealthy area like say....Clarksville.  They are the current State Champs and I know they beat at least one "private" school 6-0 during the regular season.  

With so many factors like public v. private; rich v. poor; travel players v. non-travel players; big school v. small school; big city v. small town; great coach v. P.E. teacher.....at the end of the day you can't make everybody happy.  I say enjoy the team and school where your daughter plays and always encourage hard work and discipline to be the best you can be against whoever you play.  If you want to "take it to the next level", find a club team and try out.  If she makes it, who knows, maybe one day you can go watch her play in college!

[1925Kee]

Compete with?  Most of the time, they handily beat the private schools.  How about a "public" school in a not-so-wealthy area like say....Clarksville.  They are the current State Champs and I know they beat at least one "private" school 6-0 during the regular season.

You're not reading my responses. Again, you are using large schools to make your point. Yes, large schools compete with privates. And that is the right word "compete." I looked up Brentwood. They played two privates and went 1-1. Neither game was a blowout.

 

With so many factors like public v. private; rich v. poor; travel players v. non-travel players; big school v. small school; big city v. small town; great coach v. P.E. teacher.....at the end of the day you can't make everybody happy.

Agree in part, but the system could be better simply by adding three classes in Division I. Small changes could go a long way. I don't know why private parents don't want that.

 

I say enjoy the team and school where your daughter plays and always encourage hard work and discipline to be the best you can be against whoever you play.  If you want to "take it to the next level", find a club team and try out.  If she makes it, who knows, maybe one day you can go watch her play in college!

Don't assume too much.

[Impactdad22]

You're not reading my responses. Again, you are using large schools to make your point. Yes, large schools compete with privates. And that is the right word "compete." I looked up Brentwood. They played two privates and went 1-1. Neither game was a blowout.

 

Agree in part, but the system could be better simply by adding three classes in Division I. Small changes could go a long way. I don't know why private parents don't want that.

 

 

Don't assume too much.

Not assuming.  I already got one playing in college so I'm good!!  Any change (or no change at all) would be good by me.  In High School, we'd be happy to play anyone, anytime.