EHS Girls Basketball placed on TSSAA probation

[etownsparky]

This whole discussion is getting ridiculous based on assumptions and innuendo. There was no cheating in an attempt to enroll a prospective player. There was a violation due to ignorance of the rules by the assistant coach who asked the girl to come to the gym and shoot after the player's guardian expressed interest in the girl attending EHS next year. There was no attempt by the coach or coaches to go after this player to recruit or sway her as her guardian initiated the contact. Regardless, a violation was committed, reported by someone, and a penalty was assessed by the TSSAA (which is severe in my opinion considering the details). The discussion suggests the current head coach is constantly cheating which is ridiculous. The current team is made up of kids that have attended city schools since middle school or before.  There may be a few freshmen that attended county schools up through middle school.

 

The irony of this situation is that the player at the heart of this discussion will likely not attend the high school for which she is zoned.  What will be interesting is to learn if she ultimately ends up attending one of the likely schools that reported this violation.  It's also funny how no one seems to complain when kids zoned for Elizabethton decide to attend somewhere else. 

[jamesfoley]

This whole discussion is getting ridiculous based on assumptions and innuendo. There was no cheating in an attempt to enroll a prospective player. There was a violation due to ignorance of the rules by the assistant coach who asked the girl to come to the gym and shoot after the player's guardian expressed interest in the girl attending EHS next year. There was no attempt by the coach or coaches to go after this player to recruit or sway her as her guardian initiated the contact. Regardless, a violation was committed, reported by someone, and a penalty was assessed by the TSSAA (which is severe in my opinion considering the details). The discussion suggests the current head coach is constantly cheating which is ridiculous. The current team is made up of kids that have attended city schools since middle school or before. There may be a few freshmen that attended county schools up through middle school.

 

The irony of this situation is that the player at the heart of this discussion will likely not attend the high school for which she is zoned. What will be interesting is to learn if she ultimately ends up attending one of the likely schools that reported this violation. It's also funny how no one seems to complain when kids zoned for Elizabethton decide to attend somewhere else.

Its hilarious that you think Len Dugger did not know she was going to be there. You really buy his bs. Hilarious.

[etownsparky]

Its hilarious that you think Len Dugger did not know she was going to be there. You really buy his bs. Hilarious.

I could care less what you think about what I think. I know what ever involvement the player had at the gym that day happened before Coach Dugger showed up for practice. I suppose you think it was planned that way. Why would he do something like this deliberately during the season? It doesn't make sense.

[Swipes]

No...once again, read my first post. No team involvement = no team punishment in my book, but the premeditated recruitment of a player should carry more than a warning for the coach.

Sorry for another analogy, but here goes.

Lexington softball coach's own daughter (8'th grader) is on the practice field with the team...reported to the AD and Principal, who in turn investigate and report to TSSAA...punishment is no contact with the team until second week in March and multiple game suspension for the coach...ruling came today. No recruitment involved at all, she will undoubtedly attend Lexington High...but she was on the field with the team during practice...sound familiar? Yet the punishment for the coach's daughter's presence is far greater than the recruitment of an "outsider" who participated in practice? I'm going to ask if you think that Lexington's coach deserved the far greater punishment that he got than Betsy's, and if you can type Y-E-S, I'll apologize and agree with you. Fair?

Would you please post the article about the lexington situation so I can read what else fines or probation he got? Suspended the head coach at this time would be punishing the team. The way the article stated the assistant coach claims he didn't know he was doing anything wrong since the grand mother made initial contact so the player was interested in Elizabethton ,which that wouldn't be recruiting, and thought it was fine for her to be there. Which the assistant didn't know the rule about open gym and practice difference and the info Elizabethton submitted must have been pretty solid if the TSSAA didn't hand down anything else. Should the assistant be suspended,in wouldn't see any harm in that. I wonder what information lexington submitted to the TSSAA if they claimed negligence of not knowing or not.

 

Personally I think the tssaa should have given lexington the same punishment as Elizabethton if your their statements were the same.

 

If the same punishment was given to Lexington the daughter wouldn't be able to play softball next year for them, so maybe dad took the heat of it.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Swipes

[tradertwo]

Would you please post the article about the lexington situation so I can read what else fines or probation he got? Suspended the head coach at this time would be punishing the team. The way the article stated the assistant coach claims he didn't know he was doing anything wrong since the grand mother made initial contact so the player was interested in Elizabethton ,which that wouldn't be recruiting, and thought it was fine for her to be there. Which the assistant didn't know the rule about open gym and practice difference and the info Elizabethton submitted must have been pretty solid if the TSSAA didn't hand down anything else. Should the assistant be suspended,in wouldn't see any harm in that. I wonder what information lexington submitted to the TSSAA if they claimed negligence of not knowing or not.

 

Personally I think the tssaa should have given lexington the same punishment as Elizabethton if your their statements were the same.

 

If the same punishment was given to Lexington the daughter wouldn't be able to play softball next year for them, so maybe dad took the heat of it.

There's no article yet, I literally found out as we were debating the punishment of EHS's coach. I never agree with punishment for a wrongdoing that harms the innocent...In the situation that a coach commits a violation without participation of the team or players, I'd say get in his pocket. Practice restrictions and game suspensions embarrass the guilty, but affect the players more than the coach, whereas a stiff fine (not talking $100.00) would punish the guilty only. As into cash the TSSAA seems to be, I'd think that a fine would be the first thing that came to mind.

[Mw4vols]

I've been reading this argument, and even though I live 200 miles from EHS and have no children in school anymore, I thought I would throw my unwanted 2 cents worth into the fray. First off, this infraction is minor. Second, the tssaa rules are so vague and broad that any coach can violate a rule at any time. If you want to stop coaches and players from violations on "recruiting", then petition the tssaa for these three things. 1. No high school coaches can participate in aau ball. Period. 2. Hard zone everyone and enforce it. Period. 3 make the punishment for either of these violations a lifetime ban for coaches, athletic directors, and the player involved. Period. Everybody thinks twice before they cross the line, and only the guilty pay.

[limestonecove]

What everyone needs to understand is that Sparky (KK) played for Coach Dugger and both his kids have played for coach Dugger. His blind loyalty to Coach Dugger means he cannot be objective about Coach Dugger.  

He would never admit Dugger was a cheater.  Ever.   Even though his (Dugger's) history clearly shows he is.   

The irony is that this time, Dugger likely did not know the girl was coming to practice as he certainly knows the rules and would not have blatantly violated this rule at such a critical point in his likely last season as head coach of Eliz.   

Edited February 28, 2016 by limestonecove

[Glory]

I've been reading this argument, and even though I live 200 miles from EHS and have no children in school anymore, I thought I would throw my unwanted 2 cents worth into the fray. First off, this infraction is minor. Second, the tssaa rules are so vague and broad that any coach can violate a rule at any time. If you want to stop coaches and players from violations on "recruiting", then petition the tssaa for these three things. 1. No high school coaches can participate in aau ball. Period. 2. Hard zone everyone and enforce it. Period. 3 make the punishment for either of these violations a lifetime ban for coaches, athletic directors, and the player involved. Period. Everybody thinks twice before they cross the line, and only the guilty pay.

Finally, a voice of sanity. I live over 150 miles from Elizabethton and support an AA girls team (McMinn Central) that should be in the state tourney and may play against Elizabethton, yet I don't see any serious problem with what Elizabethton's coach did. It was minor indeed, and something that any coach could do without second thought. I've seen similar things happen with the team I support, but realize it's required to get to the level of being a contender every year. As you said, until the state has more definitive rules of enforcement, things like this will continue.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Glory

[tradertwo]

Got you all beat...almost 400 miles from EHS, and the team that I support is 1A. My point of view is that rules are rules, and should be enforced evenly and fairly. Some rules are indeed vague, but it's the job of every coach and AD to know them and abide by them. Although some rules aren't very clear as to when lines are crossed, every coach out there knows (or should) that an eighth grade student can only have contact with any high school team if the middle and high schools are under the same roof. It would be clearer if TSSAA just stopped contact altogether, but the rules are as they are and should be enforced if broken.

   I don't intend to seem as if I'm angry that the penalty imposed was "light"...I'm just curious that other "minor" infractions of the same nature garnered more severe punishment.

[Mw4vols]

Got you all beat...almost 400 miles from EHS, and the team that I support is 1A. My point of view is that rules are rules, and should be enforced evenly and fairly. Some rules are indeed vague, but it's the job of every coach and AD to know them and abide by them. Although some rules aren't very clear as to when lines are crossed, every coach out there knows (or should) that an eighth grade student can only have contact with any high school team if the middle and high schools are under the same roof. It would be clearer if TSSAA just stopped contact altogether, but the rules are as they are and should be enforced if broken.

I don't intend to seem as if I'm angry that the penalty imposed was "light"...I'm just curious that other "minor" infractions of the same nature garnered more severe punishment.

[Mw4vols]

That rule is so vague that a coach shooting baskets in the back yard with his niece, saying hello at Walmart, or an 8th grader watching a high school game can be a violation. Depending on who is involved or who reports it. Make the rules black and white and enforce them. What I understand about this incident, the girl was just shooting around with some girls and left when the coach came in.

[3AHAYDAY]

Finally, a voice of sanity. I live over 150 miles from Elizabethton and support an AA girls team (McMinn Central) that should be in the state tourney and may play against Elizabethton, yet I don't see any serious problem with what Elizabethton's coach did. It was minor indeed, and something that any coach could do without second thought. I've seen similar things happen with the team I support, but realize it's required to get to the level of being a contender every year. As you said, until the state has more definitive rules of enforcement, things like this will continue.

Why would you say that? SMH!!!!!