Contraversial calls in the state tournament

[PUMMELKING]

Main thing is if a heavy want's to be slick he is best to do it in the middle where he is to be sure and score. Why waist alot of energy on a more that may score or may not, have more confidence and do it in the center, dont take of not getting the call or not ending on top in bounds.

[bearlock]

SLY Yeah, that would be the man I am talking about. Do you remember that match?

[Guest Smokediver]

When we talk about line calls more often than not we refer to heavier weight classes.

 

Why? Most of these guys end up pushing on each other instead of taking shots on each other. Yes I understand they are bigger but it can be done.

 

While these guys are pushing on each other, they need to realize that the rule book states that both wrestlers are to make an effort to wrestle inside of the 10 foot circle. If they are doing that, a line call isn't necessary.

 

I understand that wrestlers will use the entire mat as wrestling will naturally move them around, but when they are pushing on each other and "dancing" other than trying to secure points in the middle of the mat, I don't have much sympathy for them.

 

Try circling and attempting a shot in the middle.

[bearlock]

well smokediver, we aren't talking about staying in the middle of the mat. I am talking about a line call as you put it. When is the last time you saw a wrestling match that both guys stayed in the niddle of the mat the whole match, no one went out of bounds and every takedown was made on the inner circle?

[doclock]

Smokediver... You said it yourself. Most.. not all big guys push around on each other. If your opponent ties with you and moves what do you do? You move with him. Part of the problem is the stereotype that people like you put on heavier wrestlers. It is that, which allows referees to stop the wrestlers before they reach the line. Maybe the heavies that you wrestled with are pushers but not those with some technique. The technique is exactly why those who have it should get the full mat. so they can take advantage of every mistake their opponent makes. A huge mistake is to relax on the edge of the mat. It is too bad that the heavies dont get the same chances to capitalize on it. The referee has the responsibility to allow the wrestlers to wrestle.

[PUMMELKING]

why does everyone ensist on shots being taken. no where does it say that a wrestler has to shoot, whats wrong with throwing your opponent. it is really nice to watch when someones feet are going above their head.

[Asylamer]

Pummelking, I have observed over and over again what appears to be the bias in far too many instances against a wrestler who attempts to work for a throw. If the opponent is successful in blocking the throw (not infrequently with a stalling maneuver of his own), the offensive wrestler will be warned for stalling. I have heard some good referees say that, if the attempt at a throw is not working, the offensive wrestler needs to move on to something else. He needs to "shoot", which to my understanding is a leg shot. However, I have never seen a wrestler who repeatedly shoots underneath for legs and is repeatedly blocked warned nor called for stalling (unless he gets a leg and just hangs on, especially late in the match and ahead). The bias is there in far too many instances. I do not think it is there because of personal preferences necessarily, but most probably because of a lack of understanding from not enough exposure to what working for the throw involves.

 

I don't know whether our (Tennessee,s) relative weakness in throw skills is a lack of appreciation for the value of the technique involved, lack of knowledge for teaching the technique, lack of confidence that the wrestler will be able to have the time to overcome the often retreating, blocking (not infrequently with the head, which many officials do not readily recognize as stalling)strategies of the defensive wrestler.

 

Officials need to be educated as well as coaches and wrestlers. From my observation, most officials are open to expanding their understanding of the entire big picture.

[Edited by Asylamer on 3-7-03 3:05P]

 

[PUMMELKING]

Good point Asylamar!!

I can truely understand this given the fact that I lost in the state finals my soph. yr. The referee called me for stalling-pushing my man off the mat to avoid wrestling. I tried to explain that how can I push him when he is constantly backing away. With no satisfaction I lost , but the next year that same official did come to me and apologize at another tournament. He said he had not seen my style of wrestling and therefore was thinking I was just pushing him.

In that point more officials do need to be aware of who is stalling and not wanting to wrestle but to just waist time!!

I learned from that and also believe that if one throw is not gonna work then change off and attempt another. We should all be free to attempt and execute or fail trying to maneuver our opponent into being thrown without stalling.

Maybe good reason freestyle and greco refs tell the color wrestler to "head up" or "open" not to block off and stall..

[reftn]

ok....

[Guest Smokediver]

What I'm refering to is a comment made earlier about calls made at the line.

 

In reply to another comment the heaviest I wrestled was 135. I am basing my comments on what I have seen in the past. Not knocking the big buys, (we do have some fine atheletes at 275) but for the most part it seems that the guys at 275 are somewhat timid of attempting a shot and want to work mostly upper body. I did not say all of them. Like I just said, there are some great wrestlers at 275.

 

An example that comes to mind is Shazzon Bradley. He was big but did not hesitate to make a shot instead of working upper body. As I recall when I watched him at the old Region I tournament, (during the days of district tournaments) I never saw him do anything but take shots and stay away from the upper body stuff.

 

I don't have a problem with throws. Used a few myself. But I think alot, not all of the heavier weights are becoming one dementional in a sense by not attempting a shot every now and then.

 

As far as the pushing around, the guy getting pushed can circle. He doesn't just have to back up off the mat. If a guy is backing up you can expose that. I had an instance a couple of years ago at the D2 tournament, the wrestlers were repeatedly going off the mat. You could tell that somebody was going off on purpose and the other going with him. I hesitated but called the pushing wrestler for stalling. He didn't complain but took two steps when I blew the whistle to the middle of the mat and stood there. The other kid backed completely out of the circle. He made it obvious to me. When you are watching this go on it is sometimes difficult to determine which one is doing what.

 

I think stalling is the most difficult call to make. I do beleive that our officials across the state are getting better with it.

[bearlock]

I think stalling is a pretty easy call.

[Asylamer]

Smokediver, I take it that you are a practicing official. Are you proving the point of a bias against upper body? You mention that Shazon Bradley stayed away from upper body, that you never saw him do anything except take "shots". You make reference to upper body as being one dimensional(which I take it in your usage is undesirable), yet infer praise for Bradley's "shots". Why in this broad wrestling world would the arsenal of throws be considered "one dimensional" and "shots" only not be considered one dimensional? Your inference that you do not care for upper body and that it is one dimensional implies that you may not give the wrestler who attempts to use upper body the same consideration that you would give a wrestler who attempts to use a shot. Why are attempts to gain an advantage in upper body different than attempting to gain an advantage in shots?

 

This reply is not meant to question judgement, just suggestion for examination of perspectives with the trust that it may lead to a broadened inclusion of all the technique that is considered sound strategy in our sport.