Why was a chair thrown?

[WrestleSBA]

usfjim,

Thank you, that does confirm it for me. Infortunately we have not had the chance to meet, but I do most definitely remember seeing your older son wrestle for the red princes 'o darkness. I have also seen your other son from the dark side many times and I would like to congratulate you for raising two great young men.

[mullets]

I have been following this post and it seems that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to blame Connell and not take the time to see the real reason for Spencer's loss. First let me give some details, some of which are overlooked. I have never seen a kid that works harder than Spencer. In the weight room, on the mat, and in the classroom, he is a cut above the rest. He wrestles like a man possessed. He for all accounts and purposes is an animal on the mat. Every time he steps onto the mat I have seen him with "the eye if the tiger." Every match that is, except for the finals on Saturday night. Fear of another and doubt of oneself is the most dangerous mix of emotions that a wrestler can have. Enough said about Spencer. What is the real problem and where did this doubt come from? Mr. Manley, Walkenvol, you were the one who planted the doubt in Spencer. It grew until it was an undefeatable demon. I have never have seen a father with so much control over his son's mind. Up until Saturday night I had held Mr. Manley in the highest respects. You complain and gripe about how Connell is a bumbling fool for not wrestling Spencer at 140 or 145. The week of state duals coach asked Spencer to make 145, his “natural weight”, and Spencer refused. Instead Spencer just acted shocked that coach would ask him to do something for the team. Things like this went on all year. You sir are the reason for your sons defeat. You and Spencer just complained and blamed it on other people. It almost seems that Spencer lost just to say I told you. I saw the doubt in his eyes. I saw it in the way he was carrying himself before 7 o'clock. I have no doubt that Spencer wins that match 9 out of 10 times. You planted fear instead of reinforcing him with positive thoughts. Stop making excuses and stop trying to live through your son. Spencer is a great person, I HOPE and think he will pull through.

This is out of control, it needs to stop. I hope this will shed light onto this already shady topic. This will be my first and last post on this subject.

[hespinnedref]

Coach Connell,

Thanks for the response. I know that it had to be difficult for you to respond to all of the negative e-mails posted on this board. You are a true champion and NOBODY should question your judgement. Your record speaks for itself.

 

Having said this, why are so many people upset with the way Coach Connell handled this situation? He has proven over the years that his shuffling of weights has proved to be successful. When you enter a school and participate in an athletic competion, you are entrusting the wrestling coach to make the correct move. Had Coach Connell not put the wrestlers at these designated weight classes, McCallie would not have been in the running, much less, with a chance to win the tournament. Coach Connell did what he thought best for the team.

 

For those of you who question Coach Connell's moves, tell us how many state champions you have produced and how many state championships you have won. I would put Coach Connell's record up against anybody who is questioning his motives, or integrety.

 

Keep up the great work at McCallie.

 

P.S. All of you attacking Coach Connell, how many times have you beaten him and how many times have you lost? The proof is in the pudding. Nobody in Tennessee can match his record.

[bently]

Anyone who is upset with Gordons decision needs to understand that tis is just a normal Gordo move. There is always drama in the Mccallie wrestling room thanks to Gordo! He has demonstrated time and time again that he has extreamly poor decision making skills.(Hence the death sentence of 96) I am not one bit surprised that something like this has happened at Mccallie, and as a parent of a future state champ, i promise to send my kid acroos the river. If you take Spencer out of this equation, and put Lee Connell in, does the same dicision take place? I say no way. Everyone needs to stop kidding themselves that this was done for the team because the decision is all about Connell searching for his own personal acolades. I say these things from personal expierence. I wrestled for Gordo at Mccallie. I will not say anymore about this because i would hate to upset the "kids"

[doremat]

When people talk about Connell not doing what is right for the individual, i.e., Manley, they are ignoring that with four state championship caliber wrestlers who could wrestle 140 and 145, two kids would have to move out of their natural weight classes. At the same time, Connell knew that his team could compete for the state title if he could maximize the contributions of his four 140-145 pound guys. Unless someone wanted to go to 135 against Leen, then one guy would have to take on Marable.

 

Perhaps Connell erred in not having challenge matches to let the best wrestlers choose the easier weight classes. If he had done this, I seriously doubt that McCallie would have come so close to the state title. Instead, the strategy worked for the Smith, Blair, and Scott, but cost Manley an easy win. The strategy easily could have produced a title for McCallie but, though it failed, it gave them a chance.

 

In the McCallie Invitational, he tried Smith at 160, but he lost to Spitalny from Baylor, if I recall. He experimented, and I think he put Manley at 152 because it was best for the team. He thought Spencer could beat him, but it did not work out.

 

It was such a unique situation. If McCallie did not have four state champ caliber kids at roughly the same weight, it is a different situation. If the tournament is a combined tourney DI and DII(thus harder for all four to win titles), it is a different deal. If McCallie is not a contender, it is easier to put your best wrestler in his chosen weight against an easier opponent. Smith handled his opponent at 140 quite easily. Manley would have dominated him, obviously, and would have won at the other three weights. He was chosen to wrestle Marable because he was deemed to have the best chance to beat him.

 

If all these factors do not coincide, then you do not have such a tough decision. That does not make it any easier for the Manleys or Connells, but we need to recognize that any way that this was handled would have had consequences for the team and for all four of the wrestlers who could have won at 140 or 145. And if it isn't a team sport, you would not have someone touting the recent success of Ryan and Baylor in DII state tourneys on this board. As Connell said, it was the Baylor wrestling team with one individual title waving that trophy in front of the fans at the Baylor-McCallie basketball game.

 

There is also great irony in the critics who say that the traditional is not a team tournament. People making the argument would say it is all about the individual champions, and then they go on to bash Connell. Well, Connell had four champions, but I bet that most coaches would rather win the trophy that the Baylor boys were hoisting to the delight of their fans at the basketball game.

[hespinnedref]

Everybody saw the chair thrown during the match, and everybody heard the banging on the walls in the tunnel. Was this chairs being tossed from side to side? Why is this not an issue?

 

The way in which Mr. Manley handled his son's defeat is awful. Why is nobody questioning this? Is this because of the way he was handled at McCallie? If if was anybody else, this board would be crucifing him. Why the double standard?

 

Just a thought.

[godawgsblue]

i think that all of this needs to stop... it has gotten into a bashing mccallie session and not discussing anything but Coach connell and his decisions...we all make different decisions and this is one that he chose to make..it might not have been right but just because it didn't turn out perfectly doesn't mean that it is all his fault...he tried what would work..he came close and barely missed..who knows what would have happened if he had done it another way..there is no way of knowing...so stop bashing the mccallie program just because of one decision...MCCALLIE WRESTLING has been great in the past and those who wrestled still care about the program...it is one big community and everyone cares so if u bash on them now then you are bashing on EVERYONE that has wrestled for mccallie...this needs to be ended it was a great tournament and provided great competition baylor won...it is just making everyone look bad with all of this complaining..it is not going to do any good

[themessenger]

Bently-you hit the nail right on the head.----Hespinnedref-If you had been living this nightmare for 3 months I hope you would only thrrow a chair in the corner--Mullets ---your post is just ridiculous. Spencer Manley lost because of his dad?--No ,he lost because he got outwrestled by a man 15lbs heavier who is also outstanding. He was wrestling out of his weight class. He has enough experience that his dad would not have effected it. Your love of Coach Connell is admirable and your defense of him admirable also but, to blame his dad for the situation he was put in, or for psyching him out is ridiculous. Also glad to know Baylor hoisted the trophy in pride. They deserved it. But the duals outcome proves they are not no.1 or even no.2 head to head team in division 2. Those trophys are encased at other schools.

Edited February 27, 2004 by themessenger

[bently]

I have been following this post and it seems that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to blame Connell and not take the time to see the real reason for Spencer's loss. First let me give some details, some of which are overlooked. I have never seen a kid that works harder than Spencer. In the weight room, on the mat, and in the classroom, he is a cut above the rest. He wrestles like a man possessed. He for all accounts and purposes is an animal on the mat. Every time he steps onto the mat I have seen him with "the eye if the tiger." Every match that is, except for the finals on Saturday night. Fear of another and doubt of oneself is the most dangerous mix of emotions that a wrestler can have. Enough said about Spencer. What is the real problem and where did this doubt come from? Mr. Manley, Walkenvol, you were the one who planted the doubt in Spencer. It grew until it was an undefeatable demon. I have never have seen a father with so much control over his son's mind. Up until Saturday night I had held Mr. Manley in the highest respects. You complain and gripe about how Connell is a bumbling fool for not wrestling Spencer at 140 or 145. The week of state duals coach asked Spencer to make 145, his “natural weight”, and Spencer refused. Instead Spencer just acted shocked that coach would ask him to do something for the team. Things like this went on all year. You sir are the reason for your sons defeat. You and Spencer just complained and blamed it on other people. It almost seems that Spencer lost just to say I told you. I saw the doubt in his eyes. I saw it in the way he was carrying himself before 7 o'clock. I have no doubt that Spencer wins that match 9 out of 10 times. You planted fear instead of reinforcing him with positive thoughts. Stop making excuses and stop trying to live through your son. Spencer is a great person, I HOPE and think he will pull through.

This is out of control, it needs to stop. I hope this will shed light onto this already shady topic. This will be my first and last post on this subject.

to mullet: Mr manley is'nt living through his son. He simply understands that poor Spence is going to live with this disapointment the rest of his life. As far as excuses go, He is only stating facts. $30 says that mullet's teeth are rotten.

[themessenger]

Empro--How ridiculous--Glad to know you get to sit in on the father son discussions in the Manley household. You go there on sundays for dinner or what?Do you really have a clue as to there pre-tournament discussions.. How silly to presume there attitude or state of mind. Are you related to Sylvia Brown or what? Its not Baloney in the traditional tournament that each person goes his normal weightclass. It is highly unusual even at McCallie(until this year) that they dont.

[LeeConnell]

Anyone who is upset with Gordons decision needs to understand that tis is just a normal Gordo move. There is always drama in the Mccallie wrestling room thanks to Gordo! He has demonstrated time and time again that he has extreamly poor decision making skills.(Hence the death sentence of 96) I am not one bit surprised that something like this has happened at Mccallie, and as a parent of a future state champ, i promise to send my kid acroos the river. If you take Spencer out of this equation, and put Lee Connell in, does the same dicision take place? I say no way. Everyone needs to stop kidding themselves that this was done for the team because the decision is all about Connell searching for his own personal acolades. I say these things from personal expierence. I wrestled for Gordo at Mccallie. I will not say anymore about this because i would hate to upset the "kids"

This was an arguement I wanted to take NO part in, but since I was mentioned I must reply.

 

First of all, Spencer IS a very close friend of mine. We are former teammates. We are friends. Just about every wrestling road trip, wrestling camp, and trips to the NCAA's we were roomates together. And Spencer is my brother in Christ. This is seen easily if you know Spencer and what kind of a guy he is: strong Christian, smart as a whip (GPA of 4.2 at McCallie), and a tough hard nosed/hard working wrestler (the hardest working teammate I ever had, right up there with Steven Levitt). Spencer, or "The Maneater" (as Coach Kenny Sholl deemed him), and I had a lot of fun times and memories together. I was nearly in tears when I saw him walk off the mat last Saturday night. I know everything he put into the sport and how hard he worked. He is rightfully deserving of being a 3-time state champ and maybe even a 4-time champ but that is a whole separate arguement). Point is, we are still good friends.

 

With that said one must understand how hard of a situation it is for me. One of my closest friends, and my Dad (Coach Connell) who I love with all my heart and owe everything in my life too.

 

Both sides of this disagreement have valid facts (most of which have been listed somewhere along the lines of this thread).

 

I'm just sick of how people get on here make claims about my dad when they know nothing of what they speak. They don't know what goes on behind the scenes. They don't know about my family and what goes on at our house (themessenger). How much has my father given to this sport? I'm not just talking about at the High School level either. And to the people that say he was just trying to add to his trophy case. I want to know where this trophy case is. OK? Because I haven't seen it. Why is that? Because my dad is the most humble person I have ever known. There is not one trophy in our house except for my personal State Championship medals. Maybe I should take after my dad and just throw those medals and brackets and plaques and trophies in some secluded closet at McCallie. This is where the ones that haven't been thrown away are, in a little Janitor's closet in the wrestling room. My dad works hard year in and year out and never asks or looks for any recognition. My dad continues to give his life to the sport. You should see his office at home it is filled with over 2000 videos of wrestling. Different clinics he has gone to, different Olympics (everyone since 1974) he has gone to, NCAA’s, Olympic team trials, Big 10 championships, World Cups, National Championships (Vegas), the list goes on and on. Heck, one day I went home and there was a message on our answering machine for my dad from Dan Gable (who by the way has slept at our house before)! He knows so much wrestling it is ridiculous! I usually kid with people and tell them if you don’t say something to my dad that has to do with wrestling then he won’t be interested or care to talk about it. It’s only a joke, but probably has some truth to it.

 

He has coached a state championship team in 4 different decades now! Hixson in the late 70’s… McCallie, in the 80’s, 90’s, and a state dual championship in 2003. He himself is still wrestling. For those of you who didn’t know he won the Nationals two years ago in Las Vegas by tech-falling Wayne Boyd (if you know much about wrestling you should know who he is a former NCAA champion)! And he is going to be wrestling this year at the young age of 56 in the FILA World Championships. I don’t need to go on, because my dad wouldn’t want me to.

 

Bottom line is my dad doesn’t deserve all this badgering and all these accusations from anyone. The situation he was in was probably the toughest one he has had to face as a coach right next to the TSSAA scandal. If everyone knew all the details involved they would be saying well what’s a guy to do? I openly told my dad that if I were in his position I probably would have handled it differently. I wasn’t sure if I agreed with how it all went down, but I don’t even know all the details as I am off away in college at UTK. All I do know is that Spencer is a great guy and a great friend of mine, and so is my Dad.

 

I’m glad that someone mentioned me in this argument. My situation last year was very similar to Spencer’s (although not as tough a situation, there was no promise made to another wrestler that year or anything else that factored into this mess of an argument). I weighed normally about 150. The same I weighed my junior year when I won it at 145. I wanted to go 145 again, but like this year we also had the problem of a few of us (Me, Ryan Scott, Steven Levitt) weighing about the same. Justin Blair, Spencer, and Andrew Smith weighed about the same too. None of us wrestled off. We just looked at each weight class and figured out what was best for the team. As most of you know I lost last year to Adam Stark from Father Ryan 3 times before the state tournament. As much as I hate to admit it he even majored me once at the Ryan tourney. I was giving up weight, I mean heck look at Stark this year winning it at 171 (I still weigh around 150, although I might have added some lazy college pounds). Each of those three times I lost to Stark I kept thinking of how could this happen to me my senior year. Everyday in the practice room I thought of one thing winning state, and more particularly Adam Stark. Everyone was real supportive of me and I always tried to keep my mind clear of negative thoughts. Coach Jim Blair helped me a lot with this aspect and it was the difference for me come state time. My mindset was focused clear of the negatives and ready to rumble with Stark. That match was the one match of my entire career at McCallie that I went out onto the mat in total relaxation with no nerves rattling at all. I was free to wrestle my match and do it for the glory of God as Coach Blair so gracefully reminded me. It was a challenge. I was giving up weight too. I felt I should have been at 145 but I knew what was best for the team so did Steven Levitt who weighed no more than me and wrestled 160.

 

The saddest part about this whole thing is that I personally feel that Spencer is a better wrestler than Marable, but with all that added pressure caused by a 3-month argument from both sides of the coin and the pressure to defend your state title and give up that much weight to a wrestler of Marable’s caliber is a VERY TALL ORDER. The team was set, they could have won state and Spencer could have won. The one thing that I think my dad learned most from this situation is to remember to include how much pressure a high school wrestler is going to be feeling and the level of distraction he will have to deal with when he is put into this situation. My dad did not factor that into the equation and that is sole reason for Spencer’s loss to Marable. With the pressure and the distractions from all the arguing from both sides it must have been pretty darn hard to concentrate on wrestling itself. And for that I feel terrible for my buddy Spencer.

 

I know he is going to work hard and train for senior nationals where I think he will definitely fair well. And I know that he will be a great asset to the Naval Academy or UVA where ever he goes on and off the mat.

 

Spencer will always be a 3-timer in my book as well as everyone else’s too I’m sure of it!!

 

And for all of you who continue to downgrade my father I have a very fitting Bible verse for you:

 

“…He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone…” –John 8:7 KJV

[bently]

Hey Lee, I bet my daddy can pin your daddy. Lets find out, for he too is going to wrestle at the Fila World Championships. He too is 56, but a couple weight classes heavier. I guess he will have to step up 10-15lbs, but im sure that will not be an issue