Sanders and Davis who really won

[texas23]

without a doubt, the refs blew it first

 

the coaches blew it second,

 

the daddy might have blown it before Christmas.

 

Now who wasnt in the chair?

 

stroke

Stroke,

 

What do you mean that his daddy may have blown it before Christmas. You have some kind of inside information that you are trying to air on here, so let's hear it.

 

It seems to me that you are saying that Coach Hill was not in the chair because of daddy.

 

Am I reading your inference correctly?

[CoachBlair]

Actually, Rule 6-6-5-A1 states:

"Errors by the timekeeper, scorer or referee must be corrected prior to the offended contestant leaving the mat area if additional wrestling is necessary. If additional wrestling is not necessary the error may be corrected as long as the offended contestant or coach remain in the mat area."

 

I did not see the entire match. I did see 2 of the cautions called against Sanders. If I'm interpretting this rule correctly, which I may not be, if the 3rd caution occured at the beginning of the double overtime period, then at that moment the point should have been awarded and no more wrestling is necessary. I underlined the "coach" part of the rule because I'm wondering if the Franklin coaches had also left the mat area, then came back, or did they remain the entire time? If there was no more wrestling necessary and they stayed, then the error, if there was one, could have been corrected.

 

Like I said, I did not see the entire match and don't have a dog in this race. I know and respect both of these wrestlers. I'm only wondering if this is the correct interpretation in this case.

[CoachDelgado]

Coach Blair, that is the corect interpretation. From what I have read, since I have not seen the tape, is that some believe that a third caution was called. I did not see the caution in regulation. I did see the two back to back cautions in overtime for false starts. Supposedly the scorer had the three cautions on the scoresheet. When it was brought to the attention of the official after the match, he supposedly denied it happened and didn't change the outcome of the match. My questions are, and yes I have been in those shoes before as a coach and referee, why didn't the assistant inform the head referee of the third caution if in fact there was a third caution awarded? Did it really happen or did the score keeper misinterpret a signal and recorded it as a caution?

Edited February 25, 2004 by CoachDelgado

[reftn]

You couldnt miss a caution. The referee holds his hand in a "C" and speaks GREEN or RED depending on the offender. There is NO action taking place as the whistle is blown and any start is stopped. You cant miss a caution, it is a very public call, unlike a warning for stalling on the defense wrestler or continued escape with a call for locking hands where action continues as the points are awarded or warning is given.

 

And coaches ( Blair, Delgado) that is the correct interpretation from where I sit, in a humble, crouched position.

 

reftn

[nywrestler]

GET A COPY OF THE VIDEO AND WATCH IT!!! YOU'RE QUESTIONING OF THE CAUTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED.

[Sommers]

i just want to say the same thing i have said in all other posts about this match.....Davis Lost the match and rightfully so since he did not wrestle his type of match. i have never seen him stall or wait out an opponent so much as he did the whole tournament. Sanders is a decent wrestler but if davis had wrestled to his capability he would have blown him away, but as it turned out he didn't and lost.

 

In my opinion the coaches must not have remembered one of the caution calls either until after the match or they would have went directly to the table then and argued the call and at that point probably would have won the arguement. Since they waited til after the match the ref is not going to change his call. It was davis's match to lose from the beginning and he toyed around to long.

I'll have to slip one in...

 

He was a very sick pup, but Sanders did a great job to kkep himself out of trouble and outlast Bond.

 

soms

[LAUDERDALE]

I have read all the comments on coacht concerning this match. I am writing, not to choose sides, but to speak on behalf of the official who called the match.

 

There are Wrestling Officials in Tennessee who strive hard to do a great job. They are not in it for the money nor are they in it for the "rush" some of refs feel when they realize the control they have over coaches and wrestlers (Yes, you guys know the ones who I am talking about). You can identify the wrestling officials who are in it for the "wrong" reasons.

 

They are the ones who

1) refuse to be questioned and are always quick to penalize a coach who dares to question;

2) slaps the mat for quick pins because they have somewhere the need to go or justify a quick pin by saying "well, he shouldn't have been on his back";

3) make up the rules as they go

 

Now, I do know the official that was involved in this match and I have know him for several years now. He is, in my humble opinion, one of the best officials in the state of Tennessee. He is not in my Region and we only run into him at the Bradley Inv. or at the state Tournament.

 

He is a wrestling Official for all the right reasons. He cares about the job he does. He treats all the wrestlers and coaches with respect and dignity. He is very approachable and willing to explain his calls, without hitting a coach for a team point. He is not in it for the money. He gives a kid an opportunity to get off his back and fight the pin. He goes by the rules as set down in the National Federation Rule Book. He is more than willing to check with a second official to ensure he made the right call. He takes his great pride in doing a great job.

 

I am not saying he is beyond making a mistake. I am saying had a mistake been pointed out when it could have been corrected, he would have corrected the mistake. This in an extremely unfortunate situation. Had the mistake been called to his attention before the wrestler/coaches left the mat, this line would not even be on coacht.

Edited February 25, 2004 by LAUDERDALE

[Sommers]

Now, I do know the official that was involved in this match and I have know him for several years now. He is, in my humble opinion, one of the best officials in the state of Tennessee. He is not in my Region and we only run into him at the Bradley Inv. or at the state Tournament.

 

He is a wrestling Official for all the right reasons. He cares about the job he does. He treats all the wrestlers and coaches with respect and dignity. He is very approachable and willing to explain his calls, without hitting a coach for a team point. He is not in it for the money. He gives a kid an opportunity to get off his back and fight the pin. He goes by the rules as set down in the National Federation Rule Book. He is more than willing to check with a second official to ensure he made the right call. He takes his great pride in doing a great job.

 

Amen to that!! We had two of the best on the mat at the same time. No one can question that.

 

Unfortunately we didn't have adult score table/keepers like we do in B-ball and football and other sports. This may be where the real concern should be.

 

I think a co-champion medal would be fair considering what has happened in the Olympics and other nat'l and International events, i.e., US vs. Iran's reversal.

 

I may have more info to share on all of this if it is okay with my sources. Otherwise, see ya next season or somewhere during off season.

 

 

 

soms

[texas23]

Lauderdale,

 

when you say you are speaking on his behalf, has he given you his permission to state the things that you have? Have you specifically talked to this ref regarding that specfic match?

[texas23]

Now, I do know the official that was involved in this match and I have know him for several years now. He is, in my humble opinion, one of the best officials in the state of Tennessee. He is not in my Region and we only run into him at the Bradley Inv. or at the state Tournament.

 

He is a wrestling Official for all the right reasons. He cares about the job he does. He treats all the wrestlers and coaches with respect and dignity. He is very approachable and willing to explain his calls, without hitting a coach for a team point. He is not in it for the money. He gives a kid an opportunity to get off his back and fight the pin. He goes by the rules as set down in the National Federation Rule Book. He is more than willing to check with a second official to ensure he made the right call. He takes his great pride in doing a great job.

 

Amen to that!! We had two of the best on the mat at the same time. No one can question that.

 

Unfortunately we didn't have adult score table/keepers like we do in B-ball and football and other sports. This may be where the real concern should be.

 

I think a co-champion medal would be fair considering what has happened in the Olympics and other nat'l and International events, i.e., US vs. Iran's reversal.

 

I may have more info to share on all of this if it is okay with my sources. Otherwise, see ya next season or somewhere during off season.

 

 

 

soms

Sommers,

 

Adults may not be the issue here. Take for example the match in which an adult (irishdad) handled the time keeping, need I remind you the outcome of his adult skills?

[wildcat1]

Sommers,,,, I was trying to give Davis props by saying if he had wrestled to his full potential he would have won with ease., Quit making excuses for him. I talked to him at the tournament about his previous two matches that went to the wire and he never once said anything abot being sick, so obviously he is not complaining and neither should you.

[LAUDERDALE]

texas23 I did not mean that I was speaking FOR him. I simply am speaking UP for him and the job he does.

 

That goes for Mr. Craft as well. He is one of the best our state has. Both of these guys take great pride in what they do. Unlike some officials, they care whether or not they do a good job.

 

Its just that the verbal attacks on them, the Franklin Coaches, and the Table Workers are getting out of hand. I am sure all the parties involved wish there had not been an issue concerning any of the matches.

 

How many of you have never made a mistake? How many of you have gone over to an Official, Table Worker, or Coach a said "hey, great job out there!" How many of you have ever been an Official, Table Worker, or Coach? People are so quick to criticize the efforts of others. Heck, if there are any of you out there that can do better, then do it!

 

Take the test and become a ref. Call Ronnie Carter and tell him that you are willing to VOLUNTEER to work a score table at the state tournament. If you have all the Coaching answers then go to your local school central office and find out what you need to do to become a coach. Then do it.