No Pass, No Play

[BobcatGraduate04]

The only argument that I have heard against the rule is that playing sports is their only incentive to remain in school.  So, take away their opportunity to play sports and they drop out of school.

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Good argument. What do you guys think? This was one of my thoughts as well. Is it right to take their only incentive away? Or... what if a child has a learning disability but is an outstanding athlete. Is it fair to take the only thing the child can do well away from him, because he has a disability? Is that discrimation? How well that effect his self-esteem or how his peers view him? Let me know.

[barb]

My opinion is that sports just like drama, band and chorus are extracurricular activities.  These activities should enhance and supplement the education experience but these activities are a privilege not a right.  The primary purpose of our high schools are to educate our kids not teach them to play sports.

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In some schools, drama, band, and chorus are credit courses, not just extra-curricular activities. These activities are not overseen by TSSAA however so participation in performance is not necessarily affected by academic performance.

No pass/no play rules ensure all TSSAA athletes meet the minimum requirements for most colleges and gives each a chance to use their talent to further their education. While a 2.0 won't get you into Ivy League, it will at least let you play JuCo somewhere.

[barb]

The only argument that I have heard against the rule is that playing sports is their only incentive to remain in school.  So, take away their opportunity to play sports and they drop out of school.

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Staying in school is a waste of everyone's time if the student is failing. If we follow this logic the student will drop out after he has used up his eligibility anyway. A kid has a limited number of years eligible to play sports. He can stay in school until he graduates, however long that takes. If that child is learning-disabled, this needs to be addressed through Special Ed. If not, this child is not being served by the adults that are responsible for him both at home and at school.

[cw160]

There should probably be only two requirements: 1. that a student be enrolled in the school and 2. some abitrary upper-age limit (18, 19 or 20). And I'm not even sure about #2. The rest should be decided by the local school board.

 

You may think that's ridiculous, but look what's happened to us by trying to make requirements about things. Of course, I also think students should be allowed to quit school after they pass the ninth grade proficiency test - instead of waiting until they're 18.

[barb]

There should probably be only two requirements:  1.  that a student be enrolled in the school and 2. some abitrary upper-age limit (18, 19 or 20).  And I'm not even sure about #2.  The rest should be decided by the local school board. 

 

You may think that's ridiculous, but look what's happened to us by trying to make requirements about things.  Of course, I also think students should be allowed to quit school after they pass the ninth grade proficiency test - instead of waiting until they're 18.

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Do you have any idea what would happen to our economy if this were to occur? With our rising dropout rate, we would be unable to attract new industry. Good schools with a high retention rate is one of the criteria companies look for when locating in an area.The idea of a bunch of uneducated 15 year old unemployed teenagers roaming the streets with nothing to do is a bit frightening.

 

I don't see what the big issue is with setting minimum standards of performance.These same kids will be entering a workplace that has minimum standards.No exceptions... no free passes.... no sympathy. If you can't meet the standards you're fired. Real world. Get used to it . Life isn't fair.

[BobcatGraduate04]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Seems like everyone is in favor for the No Pass, No Play rule, except for maybe that one person. Everyone has made great arguments and support my reasoning for applying the No Pass, No Play rule. Here's another question. Should the TSSAA be in charge of making sure this rule is followed? Should TSSAA even have this rule? Should the certain GPA requirement be set by each county, each school, or even each coach? At private schools maybe they have higher expectations for their students, is a simple C average setting a high enough requirement for them? Is a C average helping students, in schools who are absolutely known for their academics, get ready for life? Should the GPA be set above average? After all aren't athletes looked upon and put on a pedestal in our schools. Maybe making the GPA requirement higher on the coaches hands. What do you think? [/b]

Edited September 29, 2004 by BobcatGraduate04

[barb]

Gpa requirements? Set by the county, or school, or coach? What a joke that would be. We removed Our son from the baseball team because we weren't happy with the D's he was bringing home and his coach called us daily for at least a week before I called the principal and put a stop to it. He had the nerve to ask me if I knew what I was doing depriving my son of a chance at a scholarship. I told him it really wasn't his place to question my judgement and he really should care more about his students grades if he wanted them to get into college. I believe an awful lot of these coaches don't care how these boys do as long as the "pass 6 of 8 classes the previous year" Kids pass with a D but they don't learn with one.

[BobcatGraduate04]

Sounds like good parenting. But, what about those kids with not such a good family life. Someone needs to guide them to success. Is a C average good enough? Is that getting them where they need to be? I agree most of the time coaches are more worried about their players game performance then their class room performance. Sometimes coaches forget that first they are teachers, after all that's how they got their head coaching job in the sport they coach, by becoming a teacher. Is anyone not for the No Pass, No Play?

[Black&Blue]

Sounds like good parenting. But, what about those kids with not such a good family life. Someone needs to guide them to success. Is a C average good enough? Is that getting them where they need to be? I agree most of the time coaches are more worried about their players game performance then their class room performance. Sometimes coaches forget that first they are teachers, after all that's how they got their head coaching job in the sport they coach, by becoming a teacher. Is anyone not for the No Pass, No Play? 

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"The coaches more worried about performance on the field then in the classroom?"How did we get to that? I'll tell you. It's the trickle down effect. Do 100,000 screaming Vol, Gator, Bulldog, or Tiger fans and their coaches really care what Eric Ainge, Chris Leak, David Green, or Cadillac Williams GPA is. Nope, just win because that's all that matters. No where else are the recruiting scandals in college football worse than in the SEC. College Football is a passion here, a way of life. SEC football is a culture.

 

This is something every one on this board can agree to. We feed that monster. As a result, it trickles down to high school. It's the closest thing to college football and has mimicked it. The boards pre-occupy themselves with what H.S player is going where, what school cheats, private vs. public, eligibility, and everything that college ball has.

 

For most of the players and coaches, Friday night is as good as it gets. It means everything to them. High School fan support hinges on winning and losing and is taken very seriously. If not, would we have all these debates I named? It is what it is. Now if you want it to stop, have patriot leauge guidelines in the SEC where there are no scholarships, the minimum SAT score is 1100, and 5,000 people show up for a game. With all the problems, I wouldn't trade.

[cw160]

Barb. The only difference is that you want the unmovtivated 15 year olds locked up in school for three years, with state-paid baby sitters, waiting until they turn 18 so they can quit. Maybe if schools didn't have to spend money tracking down truants, setting up alternative schools, dealing with kids whose parents don't value education, the schools would have the time and money to educate the children who do want an education.

 

Send those 15 year olds out to get employed. Let them work and pay taxes. If they don't want to work, fine - let the people support them who are most responsible for their behavior: their parents.

 

Maybe our economy would even grow due to all the cheap labor quitting school. What a great way for a 15 year old to learn about economics!

 

Back to the original: the idea is to let local boards decide the rules for their system. If County A wants to let kids who can't read and write play high school sports, let them. If County B wants to require students to have a B average every six weeks, let them.

 

We both believe in standards: you believe you should set a lot of rules for everybody and I believe I should set one - or two and I'm still not sure about #2.

[BobcatGraduate04]

Wow, I didn't know doing a simple speech for my class in college would bring up such a debate. I don't have children, I am not a coach, I am not a teacher (yet), just simply a high school athlete has been. All I wanted to know was if anyone disagreed or agreed with this rule. You brought to my attention though that this one rule could affect many other situations in our lives. On the high school level I do agree that students must put academics before athletics, because how many of those high school athletes actually play on the collegiate level? On the college level, those athletes I'm sure have tutors and professors willing to help them pass, because they need the athletes on the court or field for their schools reputation. However, sometimes do high school teachers not pass a child simply because they need him in the athletic aspect? Maybe the school is in the state tourny or about to play a huge rival. No Pass, No Play... good rule or not? Thank-you everyone for your comments. I appreciate it greatly and your thoughts will make my speech much more effective. Thank-you again so much for your time and help. Keep the posts coming, I'll keep on checking. Also from now on can you please post what position you have to the argument. Such as are you a teacher, coach, parent, player. or just an outsider looking in. Thanks again for your time.

Edited September 29, 2004 by BobcatGraduate04

[barb]

Barb.  The only difference is that you want the unmovtivated 15 year olds locked up in school for three years, with state-paid baby sitters, waiting until they turn 18 so they can quit.  Maybe if schools didn't have to spend money tracking down truants, setting up alternative schools, dealing with kids whose parents don't value education, the schools would have the time and money to educate the children who do want an education.

 

Send those 15 year olds out to get employed.  Let them work and pay taxes.  If they don't want to work, fine - let the people support them who are most responsible for their behavior:  their parents.

 

Maybe our economy would even grow due to all the cheap labor quitting school.  What a great way for a 15 year old to learn about economics!

 

Back to the original: the idea is to let local boards decide the rules for their system.  If County A wants to let kids who can't read and write play high school sports, let them.  If County B wants to require students to have a B average every six weeks, let them.

 

We both believe in standards:  you believe you should set a lot of rules for everybody and I believe I should set one - or two and I'm still not sure about #2.

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Well I guess county A will have a bunch of stupid football players who are really good but have no future and county B will have a few good athletes who are well educated and on their way to good colleges and jobs. The boys from county A will have state championsipsto look back on fondly while the boys from county B will have promising careers to look forward to.

 

Lets just have everybody playing by their own rules. This would work only if county A played only schools with similar rules. Would we then see division I divided again: those with academic standards and those without?

 

What we are talking about here is standards not rules. Every person must be held to them at some point in their life whether at home,work,school, or....prison.