Gambler

In the end if the split happens it will be terrible for the TSSAA and high school football. Alcoa, Milan, and Fulton will continue to dominate their class. Maryville will have a tougher road in the super 32 but will win. The better public schools will play privates in non conf. At the end of the season champions will be crowned with rings that must be qualified by distinction. The privates that get booted out lose because they will be faced with get players or have your program crushed. People will laugh so everyone gets a trophy and TN football will be even more watered down. If I was a public school instead of more classes I would request less classes that would make it tougher for privates to win because in four of the classes you would have alcoa, maryville, Fulton, Milan. The same teams that will always win.

I understand your point. If you look over a 15 year time period Hillsboro has made the state title game a lot. Additionally of the metro or Nashville city football programs they are the best and attract kids to their school and athletic programs. The context of the conversation was recruiting and classification. They will continue to draw talent and have resources to compete for titles. I think you will find that this season was not a flash in the pan but I'm not a burro supporter just sharing what I've heard.

Hillsboro has made alot of appearances in state title games. Also they handily defeat most schools they play in middle Tennessee. Hillsboro is located in a great area for a school with a favorable zone and a program that allows people to transfer there if a school doesn't offer one of the courses in the program they have. Burro football is back on the rise and kids will continue to find a way to attend.

In reality you have four different groups involved in this 1. D2 Privates - They aren't going back into D1. They dont want to0 and have a good system. 2. D1 Privates- They dont want to play in D2 and give financial aid. Most couldn't compete with D2 schools. 3. Open Zone public schools and magnet schools- In many ways they have more of an advantage then Private schools in getting athletes with no tuition. However those that win are doing things right and if you took the open zone away then people would still move into the district to play. 4. Closed zoned rural schools- They will struggle to compete due to population base. However every now and again they have a talented group that can beat anyone in their class in D1. 5. Urban public schools- They can get athletes from a large school zone as well as those athletes that move around. As far as a plan the TSSAA wants to what is best for all parties involved which is hard to deal with based on the differences. All things aside it does take alot of money to run a quality association and Tennessee athletics and their organization are far better than most neighboring states. Therefore here is my thoughts with the new plans. The D2 financial aid schools problem was solves along time ago so leave them alone. Do not force the D1 privates into D2 because then you will form a new associaotion and I think everyone loses due to what that would force private schools to become. My answer is allow D1 privates to play in D1 for the regular season and then have their own state tournament. This allows the schools to continue to operate as they are and solves the championship issue. As for open zoned/magnet schools move them up one class. As for closed zone urban and rural schools obviously they fall into classification of their enrollment. However since D1 privates are no longer participating in post season play go back to a 5 class system with in football 5A being the super 32 which I think is a great idea. In my opinion this keeps the positive points of the current plan in place as well as allows schools to continue operating as they desire. In the end high school athletics is still about participation for kids not just titles. Lastly I will say this in regard to football. Milan, Maryville, Alcoa, Hillsboro, Trousdale County, Knox Fulton will continue to win football championships regardless of the classification set up. The best teams and programs will always win and players will find a way to attend those schools.

I think its real simple. Brentwood never wanted Crawford to leave. They hire a journeyman who continued on his journey and a quality replacement that was chosen late in the hiring season to hire a new coach. Troubled waters and they hire back the coach they wanted the entire time. Woodward had no where near the talent of previous years or the experience to boot. For whatever reason Brentwood admin did not see the future of the program getting any better. Also we will see how Brentwood does next season against those same teams. Best of luck to Crawford,Woodward, and Pemberton. The Coaching Carousel moves fast.

I think one thing that gets overlooked is the following. For those on here saying certain public schools do not attract athletes to their programs or "recruit"(broad term) you are crazy. Im not asking for sympathy on either side of the discussion but here are some things to consider. Most private schools are in an urban area or city with multiple school options of all kinds. Therefore whether your in the arms race or not schools must compete for players indirectly. Many times the D2 privates will attract talent out of the D1 privates. Also many times the bigger public or more succesful public schools will attract talent from the smaller or less succesful public schools and smaller privates for more "exposure or higher levels of competition. For the D1 smaller privates with smaller enrollments losing athletes from a limited pool can make things challenging when already playing in a multiplied class (which I support). When discussing public private issues the D2 privates need to be left out of the discussion because they are in a separate league and the D1 privates in no way operate the way they do. It is far easier for a kid to use a fake address or move or simply leave a private school and be immediately eligible at a public school than for a kid to attend a D1 private school and pay full tuition. I saw this year in Nashville a public school across town lost its 3 best players to another public school on the other side of town within metro. Accusations are made all the time about D1 private schools recruiting but what about the transfers right or wrong to public schools? What about the magnet schools open zone policies? What is a coach supposed to do if he is running a succesful program public or private and a kid wants to join his school and program legally (key word) turn them away? The more rural public and private schools for that matter do not face the great challenge of maintaining the majority of their athletes to nearby competitors. I realize they face the challenge of having a limited pool of students to choose from but so do many of the D1 private schools. Im not crying about this Im just stating the facts. In order to help this situation and avoid a complete split which I think would be sad and bad for Tennessee high school athletics. The TSSAA has done a great job of creating the 6 class system with the big boys at the top and allowing schools to switch if desired. Other measures that could be put in place is this create city/country divisions based on size and school demographics. I know it sounds radical but if the private schools are taken out the same public schools that in most cases are defeating the privates now will dominate and complaining will continue (Maryville, Alcoa,Milan etc) Whats wrong with thinking outside the box. Also why doesnt the TSSAA track the transfers from school to school and regulate like the NCAA? If a school isnt recieving transfers then they arent illegally obtaining athletes. Lets truly and openly show the FACTS about transfers and deal with things on a case by case basis. Thoughts???

Thoughts on this situation" 1. Did pemberton leave knowing he had one year left of Ron Crawford's program and talent and he saw would Woodward was walking into? 2. What happened to the staff that Crawford had put in place? Did they leave because someone from within wasn't promoted or did he have the same staff? 3. What is the weightroom program being devalued all about that was mentioned? 4. What was the talent level like compared to regular Brentwood Teams over the last 10 years? 5. Did Woodward try to implement a new system due to a change in talent because word was the reason pemberton got the job was because he basically ran the exact same systems as Crawford.? If you answer these questions then I believe you will find generally why things didnt work out? Who is next for Brentwood?

No reason to talk about that aforementioned Coach he is gone and probably would of resigned at the end of the year. I never said the Wynne? coach wasnt good I just said he has moved on from every job he has ever had and for most admin that is a red flag. It takes away your credibility when you have coached at 8 schools and none of them more than 4 years when you say you want to retire at a school. Moving on all of Goodpastures success has been in the wing t so it will be interesting to see if they hire a coach with that background. Also junior high parents will always look around at school options and talk before high school that is nothing new. I imagine Mote wasn't the first choice last time so it will be interesting this time around. Obviously the situation still will be tough for the next guy but the right guy always make things right. Very few schools get or have the right guy. Good luck to Goodpasture and the Coach that is now at Wynne.

I think Goodpasture fans need to step back and look at the situation Mote inherited. Obviously in Martin's last year the team had a terrible year and many of the individuals who played or got suspended didn't return. Moreover as this board llustrated the last few years of Martin's tenure were not rosy off the field. Also Mote had a major staff shake up leading to instability in the program. Moreover the last two years goodpastures talent is noticeably down from their better years. Combine all those factors and boom you see a great deal for the lack of success. Bottom line mote walked into a bad situation. Now was he the guy to pilot through the trouble waters obviously not but from things on this board and words coming out of due west admin issues and internal issues abound. For what its worth and I am not an expert on the situation currently they should probably hire and keep Andy McWilliams as head coach. He knows the community and kids and obviously is a respected hold over on the staff. Right now Goodpasture needs stability and a LEADER as much as a football guru. The GP program is in rebuilding mode and they will not return over night to wear they were or have been. Sadly this happens to most coaches who follow a highly successful coach on the field who left the program in turmoil. Things should be better for the next guy if history holds true. As for Chris Hill at Wynne? He has had more jobs than any other coach around. IF you google around you see he hasn't been at a school for more than 3 years ever. Also Wyyne football from googling has a great football tradition and had a few down years. They had a legendary coach I read about that ran the single wing. Nobody wants a journeyman coach with a lack of commitment.

How would they not be recognized on a national level smh. Many other states have their own private league and get plenty of attention. Also by more than doubling the amount of private schools this makes it easier and more appealing due to logistics of location and amount of schools for financial security. Confucius you are confused.

The main reason privates would form their own league is for financial benefits. Why give the tssaa a cut if you don't have to? Keep more money for the schools and control classification and postseason independently. Also the transfer thing would be interesting. A split is a longway from being done but not as long as it was at one time.

So is maryville essentially a private school open zone and tuition

3 divisions will be formed. The big division of d2 now will stay the same. The current smaller division of d2 would see some go down to the smallest division. Lipscomb goodpasture CPA dca due to their size and type of school would fit well with bga fra usj fra Harding academy. Mtcs jcs mjca Columbia academy trinity would fit with small schools. It would be quality athletics at those 3 levels. Two levels would polarize to many schools. Tssa won't have to worry about it they will form their governing body.

I think you need to open your eyes. Private schools could easily form amd operate their own league. In fact it would be cost effecient. In the end I applaud the TSSAA for taking time to make decisions because all the privates leaving impact classification not just money for TSSAA. You shouldn't expect an organization to change radically over night.

Warning: memcache_connect() [function.memcache-connect]: Can't connect to internal.memcached.coacht.net:11211, Connection refused (111) in /mnt/wwwroot/boards/ips_kernel/classCacheMemcache.php on line 90 It would takes time But do you really think if alcoa wanted to play in the top 32 the TSSAA would stop them. Also by allowing the teams in the top 32 to go down for teams that want to play up essentially they are trying to get the better teams to want to play up with better competition and keep the other schools happy in lower classifications that are getting beat by the powers at be. Essentially what we are heading towards in high school athletics all over America is that size of school is no longer a good determination of what level team should play at. This is a radical idea but I believe you will see more of this as prep Athletics develop over the next several years. Why should certain schools that are dominating classifications not move up and play against teams that will challenge them and make their program better. Bigger schools and bigger gates mean bigger games and more media attention and therefore attract more athletes to their's to their schools. If the privates get kicked out the super 32 would be a good answer for the public schools that will then become the villains of the smaller schools that are getting beat. So in reality I think you are the one that is really off base no hard feelings.

In reality they are trying to create a super league for the best football schools in the state to play each other regardless of class. I like it and I believe maryville would move up. I think alot of schools would use this as a selling point for their program. We play the best of the best and I think it's good they all make playoffs after playing that schedule they deserve it. In time Alcoa and other schools would move into the league creating a big boy league for colleges to recruit. It would also create more competition for lower level classes. Could this in some way involve privates being given the option to play in the super league instead of being kicked out. Essentially this provides a way for public schools to not just dominate each year but move up and the best play the best. I do see schools that need or would want to get out. Plan 32 is better then what they have now. I think 5 class system will return.

I actually think the tssaa is doing a wise thing in forming a committee to investigate all sides of the issue. It may not be rocket science but this is a major shift in the prep landscape and nothing is worse than rushing a process.

Multiplier won't do anything to open zone schools. They are not drawing enough kids out of zone to be bumped up. Schools would figure out how many out of zone kids they could take without being bumpud up. Again if you want to make life hard on open zone schools just move them up a class if they are going to be open zone. Simple...Since they have a bigger school zone by taking out of zone kids then they should play schools with bigger school zones and more students. Similar to multiplier for privates. Also bigdanteague why should privates stay in tssaa if they are being kicked out of d1? Why wouldn't they form their own governing league and stop giving money to tssaa.? Also I don't think recruiting would pick up most privates set their capacity of enrollment and need all tuition they can get.

Also big the idea of making parents open their tax returns is absolutely a joke and one of the silliest things Ive heard.

As I understand it work studies in D1 don't happen. I think those ended along time ago. Secondly I don't think the multiplier for schools getting kids from open zone would be effective. Schools would figure out how many they could take and not be moved up. They would be crazy not to figure that out. Also it only takes a few great players to make a difference. I think one thing to remember is whoever wins there will be people that don't like them and are not going to be happy. So a level playing field or not people are going to complain. I do like the fact that other public's do see that advantages of open zone and "recruiting" does happen in public schools. I think a better course of action would be to simply move open zone schools up a class. Also closed or open zone will not matter South Pitt will continue to be a power in high school football. Look at their level of commitment in many ways.

Two questions for anyone who would answer: 1. What is wrong with the family of a student athlete buying a house or moving into a district to go to a school or to play football. Its perfectly legal. If you "closed south pitts" zone then that is what many would do in order to go there. 2. Do you really think the only reason open zone football programs are succesful is because they are open zone ? Seriously great football programs work really hard and hace great coaching.

Your statement about finances in private schools shows YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING About. The travel will not be an issue and if for a few select schools it is since the privates will form their own governing body and no longer give tssaa or public schools financial support. Why should they they are kicked out so now their gayes will e good and with less schools to support and a smaller organization to operate schools should benefit more $$$. if you think the split will hurt the majority of private schools especially $$ your wrong. The private schools could subsidize their travel from the new revenue streams they will have by getting to enjoy to control their funds for their own constituents best interest. Also financial aid at private schools works like this they apply to a program like fasfa and the firm looks at their factors impacting income and sends back how much they qualify for. Then the students family pays the rest. Most financial aid doesn't cover a third of what it costs to attend school. Essentially financial aid is a coupon. All private schools have an amount of money they must have per student to make budget. Many people think that athletes are going to a private school for free but that is not the case and its usually at a discounted rate. Private schools cannot afford to do that because they are funded through tuition. That is one of the reasons many private schools don't want to give aid now because they need all the funds they have. Privates won't fight among themselves. There already are divisions within d2 that schools look very different in based on size amount of aid given etc. the new d1 schools the public schools are kicking out could very well into. the first time do agree with upper on saying its a very doable and financially sustainable splt. No one is going to have a hard time surviving. I've never heard of a school going bankrupt over athletic travel fees. Private like public school districts are run like businesses just without state or federal money. Also why wouldn't rankin want the split it makes championships easier for him. Now they will play cak non conference enjoy the gate and rivalry and continue beating the schools that want the privates out. Alcoa ain't scared.

A multiplier on kids out of Zone going to open Zone schools won't work. Districts will figure out how many kids would move them up and cap their out of zone transfers or become very selective. They would be crazy not to. A lot of schools wouldn't want to go up in classification because of travel which was the brain child of z plan. Not to mention schools want to play at a level they can compete at. A lot of private schools decided to be smaller because of. Z plan or lost enrollment due to programs taking a downturn due to losing against tougher teams. Upper why should Alcoa and maryville open zone be taken away when riverdale enjoyed it as well as their championships for decades? Also upper all kids have to do to transfer in a city to another school among other things is rent an apartment use a rental house address or grandparents address AND THAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. You don't get it that kids are always going to be attracted to schools that win and will find a way to get there. If the private schools leave other advantages will exist. Historically the schools in each class with the larger enrollment win more. How many classes do people want? Schools in cities have access to more kids with growth. Now do you have a rural and urban title? Another thing I get is this if you look at recent history you will see most private schools have been up and down with wins and losses. Lipscomb football over ten years has won championships and missed playoffs. Basketball teams have made state tournaments and been.500. Like other privates never complained. Giles county who was caught recruiting beat the mustangs in football and no one cried on here about losing. Fulton, maple wood, and alcoa beat the mustangs no one complained. Trousdale beat goodpasture twice last year and Alcoa beat them 5 straight times and no one complaine about an unlovely playing field. In the end someone has to win and someone has to lose and when you lose no one is happy but the playing field will never be completely level.

Lewis county sounds a lot like lipscomb. However with all lipscomb tradition they had two d1 players and didn't win a a state title with either. I guess Lewis county and upperman are the only schools allowed to work hard and be disciplined and that be the reason for sucess. Is bobby sharpe still the head coach for for Lewis. He and the late glenn mccadams were great friends. Also one time Lewis county scrimmaged lipscomb and I thought they had a man at qb going to Nebraska. Sad that coaches can respect each other but players can't play together without tension. Ito write off maryville Alcoa and other private schools sucess to open zoning is a major insult to the hard work determination and effort countless players have poured into the program over the years. I'm sorry not really that every school cannot be just like Lewis county high school or upperman. Yes different schools have different types of communities and kids and purposes. I greatly respect throwda slant and Alcoa being willing to take on anyone anytime anywhere. That is one of the main reasons they are successful because they do not put excuses in the back of their minds. Also I've said this in this thread players would move to Alcoa and maryville if it was closed zone because they win and run great programs. The best schools will continue to win no matter what the set up. I hope the voters and committee make the right decision.

Interesting discussion. Upper cumb Tennessee modeling their football after texas is not a viable option. Texas is so much bigger and has so many more schools playing football it's not even in the same stratosphere. Also in texas public school recruiting is unbelievably rampant which is starting to come out on this board. Upper where is Giles county supporting the split? Also the public schools that will win when the private schools leave are the same ones that are beating the privates now. So the schools complaining about losing to privates will now lose to the better public schools but you will still lose year in year out and by a lot. Is losing to a non private school going to make people happier. I think a delusion exists that upperman will now beat Alcoa in the state finals every year because lipscomb and goodpasture are gone. That won't happen. The areas with greater population or open zone or like trousdale and Henry co. And Milan with great tradition will now dominate because the playing field will still be uneven toward their circumstantial advantages. I think one of the biggest wildcards in this deal is how financially splitting the privates out of tssaa if they form their own organization will impact the finances of the TSSAA and its member schools. Also what will classifications look like without all private schools will the z plan go away. What happens to travel costs etc. losing the private schools will hurt the overall well being of the tssaa. Thoughts opinions? Maybe upper will respond to me. In football like all states the best programs are the best no matter what. Alcoa, trousdale, Milan ,Huntington Henry co. , maryville, will continue dominating football regardless of the set up.