Gambler

I am glad to hear the past is being honored. A lot of discussion is being made about the integrity of the school and their leadership during the last few years. No other program or sport at Lipscomb has experienced any large scale scrutiny or trouble other than football. Therefore as I stated previously the football program is an isolated case/situation. Ultimately the leadership of the school is responsible for programs but I don't think the football issue is an indictment of the entire institutions moral standard. Again in my opinion the TSSAA board ruling is not just a response to two cases but a ruling regarding the entire public persona of the football program and what had been going on(fact/fiction). We all know that most schools recruit in some sense of the word especially in the private division. If the QB moves to Lipscomb with his parents... sets up a residence and enrolls in school then I do not see a violation despite the interesting timing. Yes he could of gotten financial aid but that situation did not occur that way. MCcallie or other boarding schools I presume follow rules set forth by the TSSAA so to me that is not an excuse for TSSAA violations. Other programs around Nashville had been turning Lipscomb into the TSSAA for the past few seasons for violations and according to my sources the TSSAA had given them slaps on the wrist. Hopefully this will be a turning point for the program and the future will be brighter. Many other D2 private schools have operated a clean program, attracted athletes, and had consistent success. Lipscomb can do this as well but we all know what no post season means. Sadly many who once loved the school will only be observing from a distance.

Interesting points...I don't fault the school for appealing the decision...I can't take away a school or individuals right to due process. As for the Deuce deal as well as the text message those were just symptoms of a greater problem the TSSAA knew about and then could finally act on. Honestly I won't be critical of the "new" staff. Dilfer demoted the OC so he left years ago and I don't think the new head coach has returned with the same mindset. Also those coaches had to know sanctions were possible when taking the job. Additionally of note the AD that was at Lipscomb when Dilfer was hired left a few years ago (no comment) so a new leadership exists. Again the problem of Lipscomb football is far greater than two incidents. Of note none of the other programs at Lipscomb have been in trouble so this is confined to football. The new staff deserves a chance to right the ship but the mistakes from the past will linger.

The Lipscomb football program is an embarrassment. I never thought the program would be close to being on probation or sanctioned. The program used to stand for character and integrity. Let's face it 2 years of no playoffs is as close to the death penalty in high school football as you can get. From what I hear they will not play a true freshman schedule this year. What does that do to your future ? Players will leave the program with no post season chance and quite frankly I don't see them being more competitive than last year which was .500. They basically begged Mawae to take the job which he really didn't want in the first place. The admin traded a few good years for a decade rebuild due to blatant cheating. I don't care if other schools break rules....it's not right... yes all D2 schools have some skeletons in the closet (even MBA & CPA) but breaking rules is not justifiable. Lipscomb has alienated their alumni base and from what I'm told removed all the championship trophies and adornments of the past from the facilities. Lipscomb was a championship program before Dilfer arrived full of success although that had wained. The board voting against Lipscomb shows just how much the program is disliked by people in the state . The board voted against them not because of recruiting but due to their poor reputation across the state. What self respecting program brings in a QB in August to play from another state let alone a young man whose parents aren't moving into the area for a stated purpose. The QB is supposed to be the leader of the program not a hired commodity for 3 months. This move was an obvious red flag and deserved the investigation it got. All schools should work within the rules of an association and if the school cannot then they should depart . Possibly the association needs as much scrutiny as the schools are receiving currently but that is another topic.

BGA seemingly has the longest road of D2 schools to travel to return to success. The Franklin area obviously is not full of football players see (Franklin high lack of success). Also you have Page (winning) Independence, and Centennial (improving). Those schools are options for athletes. When your record is that bad a big part of the issue is talent. Let’s face it are athletes going to leave the metro area and drive to BGA ? All of the D2 private schools in Nashville are after the same pool of players which will get divided out amongst the schools and probably not reach Franklin. Im not saying it can’t be done but location has a lot to do with success athletically.

Lipscomb is adapting to playing at a much higher level of football than Dilfer or anyone for that matter at Lipscomb has ever competed in. When Dilfer was coaching Lipscomb they lost to Brentwood Academy. I’m not trying to insult Dilfer or the program. The jump for any coach is large in the D2 league. Over recent years if Lipscomb played in the big side of D2 they would have been challenged at a high level each week.. (they would have been successful but how successful is a question). CPA would be challenged as well although they have defeated some of the D2 big boys but not every week like Lipscomb is playing. Mawae is trying to develop a culture. No one could continue what Dilfer did in any capacity it’s truly a unique program that whoever took over would be challenged to lead. Also the players having to adapt to a new level and coach is a challenge.

Question about why Middle Tennessee Football looks the way it does ? With all the growth in the city I would think teams talent level would be high across the board. What has happened to MBA, Ensworth, and BA seemingly they are down more than ever thought possible ? Lipscomb has moved up a division and Mawai didn’t bring in a fresh recruiting class. Will they be able to compete at a higher level ? CPA seems to be one of the few programs performing at a high level. How would they do in the bigger division ? Are the Williamson county schools down ? Franklin fired their coach and Centennial is having a great year. Other than that I haven’t heard much. Is Oakland all Rutherford County has playing at a championship level ? Pearl Cohn beat CPA so I guess they are the flagship school in Metro ? Overton ? could someone provide some insight

Lipscomb has invested in the facilities and is hiring quality coaches to compete in D2. The next step is to attract or go get better players. Essentially for the past two years the athletic program tried to compete in a new school league with an old school philosophy. Also I might add with less talent then years past. Everyone saw the results, Its not rocket science they must do what the other schools around them are doing. Its a new day at Lipscomb Academy.

I agree with your over arching point. Some people need to be careful what they wish for. One thing to point out is the Lipscomb student body is less than 50% church of Christ. The school no longer requires employees to be c of c. Therefore they are trying to expand their reach beyond the c of c. Hopefully this will not alienate those families. This opens up their hiring pool. The changing of the identity of the school in all ways is occurring which will come with positive and negative outcomes. Honestly in the short run I look for their baseball program to be their prominent successful program because when the middle division of football disappears that will make things tough but maybe they will be able to compete by then. Also I don’t think Coach Smith situation was handled by the AD.

Beyond the hire of Trent Dilfer other things must change which will not happen over night. Facility wise Lipscomb is in great shape. However talent wise not only in football but in other sports the gap is evident. Obviously from what people say Lipscomb will be offering more financial aid and attracting athletes like other D2 schools. Football wise D2 or not the last two seasons represent some of the lowest quality and quantity of overall team talent in the last twenty years. Obviously steps are being made to improve the future of athletics at school. If Dilfer wins 5 or 6 games next year I am assuming that will be considered a success in some eyes and failure in others. Essentially in all sports Lipscomb isn't rebuilding but restarting from the ground up. This needs to be kept in mind when evaluating Dilfer and other coaches within the competitive league they are participating. Honestly most could see the athletic challenges on the horizon a few years ago that are now reality. In the end its a new day at the academy but people will need to move forward with patience or the school will fall into the cycle of changing coaches every four years.

This hire marks that Lipscomb is embracing the D2 way. They saw the hand writing on the wall. Most people believe in the public league a classification will be removed in football and in the private league the middle division in football will disappear for the next cycle. Depending on enrollment this could put Lipscomb and CPA etc with the BA, Ensworth, and MBA. The transition Lipscomb will make will still take time because talent must be added to the rosters to compete. Should be interesting on how this all plays out but it’s a new day at LA. Dilfer is certainly a big time hire.

I personally think this catholic situation shows something I wish TN had tried. Leave the privates and public’s together for regular season then split for playoffs. Privates could play each other in non conference for seeding. Public schools get a close travel game and good gate. Most public schools wouldn’t mind playing a private school if it didn’t impact the post season. The game vs private school wouldn’t count toward seeding for public schools. Now the travel issue is solved.

Just to clarify most of my reamarkS were referring to competing for championships in all sports at the division 2 level as well as football. As for football only time will tell. However I don't know if this is a foreshadowing or not but seemingly FRA, BGA, Father Ryan, Pope John Paul, Goodpasture, Davidson Academy, Ezell haven't figured out thriving success either. So again only time will tell. In reality many of the aforementioned schools competition is the growth and product of Williamson County schools not the bigger D2 programs.

Some of what is being talked about here was once going on at the school and probably is still in some form. In the mid 2000's Lipscomb went to 4 state titles in 6 years with two trips to the semi-finals. They beat some great teams during those years. So knowing what it takes to win is more than likely not a foreign concept. Facilities are important but that's part of it not all of it. Lipscomb right now has a lot of factors working against them. Some of those will change and some can change. Only time will tell but as for now the talent gap is noticeable and this transition for the school in many ways is going to take time like it or not.

I think as you talk about programs not just years a few programs must be mentioned. 1- Huntington - You can't list Milan without them 2. Goodpasture- several state title trips without wins over Alcoa 3. CPA- a lot of success 4. Hillsboro- A lot of history and tradition

Uninformed opinion here and someone with no dog in the fight. It's hard to hire a football coach in April. Very close to spring ball if not already in the middle of it. A lot of coaches won't jump after spring break. USJ was going to hire a head coach which limits your options due to the timing. They went out of the area last time to hire a HC and the new HC knows west TN football. The new coach obviously knows how to build and run a program. He is bringing an experienced coach with him Which brings continuity. Out of curiousity how many of marley's coaches are still on staff ? Did Bradley bring anyone besides his dad ? What talent does USJ bring back ?

Will Marley return ?

The private schools in Knoxville are all competing for the same pool of Athletes. The private schools in Memphis choose from a deeper bigger pool of athletes than Jackson provides. Best luck to all.

If you take a step back here are some factors impacting his leaving. I'm on the outside with no real knowledge. 1) Knoxville is a great football town with more talent than Jackson. The Vols presence and population make for a better coaching life. 2) Did he sale his house in Knoxville ? 3) Was his family happy at USJ ? 4) GCA gives a coach the chance to build the program and with area connections make coaching hires. Who did he know in Jackson ? 5) The Memphis schools have more population and talent to draw from in the city than USJ in Jackson. USJ is now playing in a tough football league. 6) USJ will hire a quality football coach and continue to do well.

I understand you stated my point better. I think some of schools playing in the middle level will be able to rise and compete with Ensworth and BA. However it cant be expected overnight or in one year. Some of the schools in the middle level will never be competitive with the big boys. Middle Tennessee football has gotten alot more competitive in both public and private areas. The rise of Williamson county schools programs are an example. Over the next few years where those athletes in the middle tennessee area end up will be interesting. CPA is definitely on the rise and has a great program.

I think DII needs three now. The only reason BA was upset is because they want games not because of competition. Privates only splitting for the playoffs makes more sense for everyone. Good public schools would compete and teams would get good gates.A huge gap exists between the large and middle division. Last year CPA had one of their best teams and ensworth one of their worst and they easily beat CPA. No offense to CPA I realize you guys played with them for most of the game. Now the ire can move toward magnet and open zone schools as Fulton, Maryville, and Alcoa will continue to dominate even more now.

Not surprising at how this has played out. I really wish the TSSAA would have allowed private schools to play a regular season in a public school district. They could play their private schools conferences in non district play. Then split up for the playoffs. Most public schools do not care about playing privates in the regular season but don't want to compete with them for a championship. This would of taken care of BA and Ensworth schedule issue. Yes the biggest schools in TN could compete/beat those teams. Also this middle division gives schools time to get their feet wet with D-2 athletics. To ask schools to in one year to go from essentially not offering financial aid to competing with those that have been operating that way for 10 years is unrealistic. Honestly I think this split is sad and now football state championships are even more watered down.

For years I've casually observed the discussion of Riverdale football on this board. I have no direct ties to the program or a dog in the fight. I'll say ultimately it comes down two major things from people I know and respect in the community. 1) Whenever Rankin left they hired outside his staff. Whether intentional or not they ended what he built at Riverdale. Those coaches all dispersed and so did their clout in the community. People no longer respected or viewed Riverdale in the same light. Ironically Hillsboro chose to not hire anyone from Ron's staff either and their program had some ups and downs. Nonetheless from the day rankin left Riverdale was never going to be the same and when no one on staff was promoted it was going to fall to s degree. 2) in high school football we live in a move to play world. Parents are going to shop schools and communities for the best situation for their family and son. While not hiring someone with any ties to the area many players didn't feel compelled to keep their son in Riverdale. Also with the surrounding schools having success this has attracted athletes away from Riverdale. Coach A is probably doing his best with the talent he has now. Could another coach attract more talent well that depends on who they hire. In reality call it noble recruiting or attraction but certain programs attract talent and others don't. 3) For years Riverdale was bigger faster and stronger than their opposition. They lined up and physically dominated their opponents. This is no longer the case. Riverdale doesn't have superior players. Creasy is running the wing t and is winning because of the athletes Oakland has attracted. Riverdale is not attracting the athletes they once were. Riverdale when they hired Coach A knew his offense and style.

The gap between good public school programs and other school programs is widening. The gap between good private school programs and other private school programs is widening. Tradition rich football schools in metropolitan areas will continue to grow while more isolated rural communities will maintain. In other words the good football programs continue to get stronger not just private schools

MSU Racer, If you google TSSAA proposals you will see a sample of how they divide the schools. I personally dont see it passing but Ive been wrong before. ALso you guys have a great program and do a great job. Im glad that you see the advantage that you guys capitalize on with your community. I would love to see a Milan vs. Henry County game that would be a classic. One thing alot of public schools dont understand is that kids leave d-1 private schools for public schools all the time. I really hope in the future that privates and publics and magnets and open zone schools continue playing against one another.

The TSSAA will now look at an urban and rural classification proposal. I would be careful in talking about advantage in this argument. A urban or city school will always have some advantages over a rural school simply based on population density. Which is why they are looking at dividing up based on that. However one thing no one talks about is for the D1 privates the challenge that exists in an urban area. In a rural school most of the time you are not going to have to worry about losing your players to a bigger private school or bigger public school. If you don't think public schools in urban areas aren't atrracting athletes or recruiting your crazy. This is what high school athletics has moved towards like it or not it is what it is. Magnet schools in urban areas can select their students and kids go for free. Many in Nashville are always powers in basketball. Open zone schools need I say more. Also as middle tennessee grows and more schools are built the talent gets diluted. Look what happened to Riverdale when Ruth co. Exploded. Used to Franklin and Brentwood were it in will co and now schools are popping up everywhere. Milan or a closed zone school gets to keep their kids and develop them in a feeder system. Those are some advantages and disadvantages. What I look at is the level of competitiveness no school is just completely dominating everyone week in and week out. Also so many people base their opinions on this year or recent history. A few years ago CPA was an average football program. Goodpasture a few years ago was competing for state titles recently they have struggled. Lipscomb has remained consistent but hasn't competed for a state title in football in a few years. NCS used to be a small program and they are growing but still haven't won a title. Hillsboro the most successful school in metro has been essentially open zone. Some schools are just going to be good at certain sports based on their community, tradition, or coaching. Regardless of what class. Coaching and admin support is a big part of success and like it or not some schools don't have the support they need to compete and win. It's not the private or open Zoned schools keeping them from being successful. I think the TSSAA will do a great job of leveling the playing field and hopefully this argument will die. Lastly TN has always had quality teams winning championships and this is a credit to both public and privates alike. Splitting the teams would diminish that reputation.