tackle

I haven't done the total research, but how many rural schools won against metro/suburban area public schools in the playoffs? Of the 7 public schools that will be playing next weekend in Murfreesboro, you have the following: 2A-Memphis Mitchell 3A-Memphis Ridgeway vs. Knoxville Fulton 4A-Nashville Hillsboro vs Maryville (Knoxville suburb) 5A-Brentwood (Nashville suburb) vs Murfreesboro (hardly a rural area) Riverdale I can understand the complaint the single A schools have against being on a level playing field with city/surburban private schools. From the looks of the public school finalist, the 2A, 3A, 4A and 5A rural schools are facing some of the same problems with the city/surburban public schools. Perhaps someone should propose 3 divisions. Division 1 for rural public schools; Division 2 for private schools and Division 3 for city/surburban public schools. I know it sounds far fetched, but some of the same arguments can be made on this that are being made about private schools. This would also take care of the magnet school issue. Or we could have a 1.5 multiplier to even things out.

I noticed you had a post at 10:16 Thursday night. Shouldn't you have been in bed by 9:30? Looks like KP for you. If you don't want me to tell Coach Mac, leave $100 in unmarked 20's behind the garbage can in Senior Hall Monday morning. [Edited by tackle on 11-30-02 6:17P]

The point is being made well by some and entirely missed by others. Isn't it ironic that after Tom Moore lost a second straight Clinic Bowl last year, he was "given the opportunity" to be demoted to an assistant because a better coach was on campus and it just didn't make good sense to have a "Michael Jordan sitting on the bench"? Maybe there was more to the story, but those of us on the outside were very perplexed by the praise for Coach Moore as a person given by those who said it was time for a change at the top, when we saw a coach whose major fault seemed to be losing the Clinic Bowl by very close margins 2 years in a row. I may be wrong, but I think a BA supporter posted on CoachT a week or two ago that losing the big game close 2 years in a row is not the direction that BA wanted to go. I can't help but to find it ironic that the cure seems to be worse than the disease. By the way, Coach Flatt does a great job with the fundamentals of football. His teams execute the game with an intensity level and technique level that few teams can match. I have no doubt that if he had taken the Science Hill job a few years ago (however, I respect him for putting his daughter first) that they would be very successful. The man has a way of getting the most out of his teams. Again, the irony of all that unfolded last winter is the point of these threads. [Edited by tackle on 11-26-02 1:17P]

Mohair, I've got to give you a good Mark on that post. I'm having trouble remembering why Coach Moore was, what was the term, reassigned. Does anyone remember what the explanation was for that move last year? Oh well, Congratulations to Coach Rutledge and the Big Red. Great job! [Edited by tackle on 11-23-02 12:04A]

One thing that bothers me when I think about the level of football played in southern Davidson County and Williamson County is that these are "city boys". I grew up in a small town in West Tennessee. We were always told (and believed) that country boys had an advantage over city boys because we were tougher and had to work harder just to survive. Looking back on it, we shouldn't have bought into that. After all, we usually lost to MUS, Briarcrest, Germantown and Bartlett-to name a few.

Randy Barnes is a first class coach and gentleman. I hate to see him leave the coaching profession. I wish him the best in whatever he decides to pursue.

Two other schools pulling kids from the same area are FRA and Father Ryan. While I will concede that Nashville has a large population, the majority of the students at these schools come from a small area of south Nashville and Williamson County. We aren't talking about 600,000 here. My only point was that 4 of the public schools that are the most affected by these successful private schools are all still playing football and playing it very well. I guess the coaches at these public schools don't know that they are supposed to be at a work disadvantage (see the Tennessean quote that public school coaches don't work hard from 10 days ago) to the private schools. They seem to be working very hard and very well. I hope the winners of the Hillsboro/Overton and Brentwood/Franklin games end up in Murfreesboro in 3 weeks. [Edited by tackle on 11-17-02 3:12P]

There are several private schools who are still alive in the playoffs that are in very close proximity to each other. MBA, Brentwood Academy, Lipscomb, CPA and BGA are all still playing and all pull kids from the same general area. Given their success, you would think that the public schools around these private schools would have their talent pool depleted. Let's see, Overton and Hillsboro are playing each other in the 4A quarterfinals. Brentwood and Franklin will square off in the 5A quarterfinals. Centennial had a successful year and gave Gallatin a tough game in round 1. I don't know about MBA, BA, CPA and BGA, but the majority of Lipscomb's starters are zoned to attend one of the public schools mentioned earlier in this post. I would imagine that a lot of the starters at the other privates mentioned also are zoned for one of these 5 public schools. Ezell-Harding also has several kids from the Overton and Brentwood zones. How can these privates be so successful AND the public schools in their areas also be successful? You would think that these 5 public schools would be leading the fight for seperation. Instead, the fight is being led by schools 100 miles away. While I can understand the frustration felt by the small rural schools, it is really amazing that so many good teams are coming from such a small region-and the local public schools are still winning and winning big. :confused: [Edited by tackle on 11-16-02 10:56P]

There have been some very reasonable posts in this thread. However there have also been some very rash views that have been expressed. Here are 10 things that are true. 1. There are A LOT of great teachers and coaches in public schools. I have 2 good friends who left comfortable private school jobs to work in a metro school. Why? They felt they could be more of an influence for good there. (They also got immediate 30%+ raises because contrary to popular belief, MOST private school teachers make far less than public school teachers.) 2. There are some poor teachers in private schools. The difference is that the poor private school teachers won't keep their jobs or be re-assigned to the "central office". They must perform or be fired. 3. Many public school coaches work very hard-just as hard as their counterparts in the private schools. 4. It is not fair to compare public school TCAP scores, Gateway scores, GPA's ... to private school ones. Public schools are required by law to accept everyone-regardless of academic ability. A better measuring stick would be to compare students in public school college prep classes to private schools. In most places, the results would be comparable. 5. Many metropolitan area private school parents (myself included) make that choice so their kids can be instructed in religion (something that can't legally happen in public schools) or to have them in a "small community" atmosphere rather than in a huge school with 1500+ students. The private school atmosphere reminds me of the community school feeling I experienced while growing up. (In fact, my kids go to school with a lot of metro teacher's kids and even a few Williamson County-a great system-teacher's kids.) 6. Many private schools struggle financially. They are not rolling in money. 7. I understand most of the public 1A school's anger and agree with a lot of it. There ARE some advantages that private schools have. If there weren't advantages, we wouldn't choose to send our children there.(But the public schools have a few advantages of their own.) 8. I liked the proposal someone made to have all private schools that give financial aid (I would include work study) to play in the highest class, and no privates in 1A-but I don't think it will happen. 9. Would the vote have been as lopsided as it was (especially given that a similiar measure found little support 2-3 years ago) if some private schools hadn't played "name that score" too many times? (I know many publics have done the same thing, but momma always said "two wrongs don't make a right".) 10. Those of us on both sides of the issue should try walking a mile in each other's shoes. We might refrain from some of the rash statements we make about each other. [Edited by tackle on 11-13-02 12:48P]

Didn't BA make the appeal to the Supreme Court? Judge Campbell may very well have ruled in BA's favor, but didn't the majority of the Cincinnati court rule in the TSSAA's favor-leading BA to take it to the Supreme Court? If they had won it in Cincinnati, then they would have had no reason to appeal to Washington. BA may very well win the case in the end, but it's not over yet.

I was under the impression that the Supreme Court merely ruled that BA had the right to sue. I didn't think they ruled on the right/wrong of the suit. If the Supreme Court ruled that BA was right, then why did they send it back to the Court of Appeals in Cincinnati to review their decision. If they had ruled BA was right, it seems to me this would be over, but it's not. It is still in court at this time.

JohnJacob, One major problem with a total separation from the TSSAA is the fact that the National Federation of High Schools will only recognize one organization in each state. Schools in these organizations can't play non member schools. The TSSAA has the monopoly on this and that won't change. This means that no school in a separate private league could play any school in Tennessee (or any other state) who was a member of the states recognized organization. In Nashville and Memphis, it could be dealt with. In other areas, it would be tough. If you are USJ, JCS or Trinity, you either play each other 5 times a season to have a decent baseball, softball or basketball schedule, or you travel to Memphis or Nashville once a week to get games-remember you can no longer play public schools in any games if you leave the TSSAA. No more private schools in the traditional big cross country, track or wrestling invitationals. No privates in the holiday basketball tournaments with public schools. Scheduling would be a nightmare for some parts of the state. Private schools need to have representation on the board, or even their own board, but total separation might mean the end of the smaller sports in many private schools. While many in this issue are only looking at football, the other sports are just as important to the athletes who compete in them.

Itzme, While I would agree that 3 classes is too many for such a small number of schools, I personally don't see much of a way around it-given the nature of private schools in this state. The "Super 7" is definitely a cut above the rest. Have you ever seen a practice at MBA? Compare it to the typical high school practice. It is very impressive to watch an MBA football practice. It compares to watching a small college practice. There are numerous position coaches, players in different colored jerseys, and it seems like 5-6 groups being worked at one time with plenty of depth in each group. The BGA's, Ezell's and Goodpastures may be able to compete with them 1 or 2 games a year, but week in and week out-there is a HUGE difference. (In my humble opinion). Also, there seems to be some on this board who think that since private schools had advantages at the DI A level (and I think many of your points on this are valid) that it should be "payback" time in D II for them. What kind of maturity does that show? If there is going to be a split, then make one that is as fair as possible to those who are being banished to D II. The smaller private schools are at a level that would have a tough time competing with BGA, Ezell, Goodpasture,... and those schools would have a tough time being at the level of the Super 7. Also, I think some of the single A folks are going to find the grass isn't as green as they thought it would be in a post split TSSAA if Huntingdon, Trenton, Tyner, Alcoa, Trousdale County and other small AA schools decide to move into single A. The balance of power will probably go to those teams.

You left Lipscomb and Goodpasture both out of D2 AA. By enrollment, both of the m would fall in that class. Briarcrest (562) is bigger than both of them. I would hope that Division in D2 would take place along unlimited financial aid and limited financial aid. There is a big difference in the quality and quantity of athletes that are at most Super 7 schools and at smaller private schools.

If a parent doesn't want their child under the influence of school personnel during the school day, then why would they want them under the influence after school on school teams. If anything, a teacher/coach has more influence on the lives of kids after school than he/she can in the classroom. If I didn't trust him to teach my child from 8 to 3, I sure don't want him involved from 3:00 on.

JohnnyC- you are correct. CNN is reporting this morning that Republicans have already cut out school lunches, cut social security benefits and are forcing my parents and grandparents to eat dog food. They have also begun the process of emptying the bank accounts of all the poor and middle class and are transferring it the the rich so that they can buy SUV's. This is going to be worse than 1994. If you remember, when the GOP took control in 94, the world basically came to an end. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Do you want proof? James Carville is wearing a trash can on his head for protection from falling debris. I am really scared!

If there is a complete split, it will be interesting to see how division II will play out. Whether people believe it or not, there will be a big difference in the quality and quantity of athletes that the Super 7 (unlimited financial aid) and the others will have. Look at the BA/Goodpasture game as an example. It will be interesting to see how division 2 would be organized. The smaller private schools will have the strength in numbers as a voting block within the division. How would they use it to insure an even playing field within D II?

Aren't there a few kids from Marshall County now playing college football. Don't you have a player at Columbia University in the Ivy League? I'm pretty sure that Coach Mac took several players down to a game in Oxford one weekend last fall. That is not the most convenient time of the year for a high school coach to be taking kids on a road trip. As for Coach Mac doesn't want to win, my understanding from talking to some of the assistants is that Marshall County spends a lot more time on the practice field than many of their opponents. It doesn't sound to me like he is trying to take the easy way out and depend on talent alone. I think there is a lot of hard work involved in the Lewisburg program. I don't know where you are coming from, but my guess is that you are either a former player who didn't get to play much or the parent of a kid who doesn't play as much as you would like. I know that is tough to handle, but one thing to remember is that there is a natural conflict that will always present between parents and coaches. As a parent, you always want what you think is best for your child. On the other hand, the coach must always do what is best for the team. What you think is best for your child will often be different than what a coach must do for the team. Coach Mac has been very successful everywhere he has been. I expect the Tigers to make a strong run in the playoffs this fall.

Indian, You are right about Paul Glenn. He was a great running back and linebacker in the late 80's. He was on the teams that faced some awfully good Sequatchie Teams in 87 and 88. He was as good a LB as has come through Lipscomb. That 87 Sequatchie Team was one of the most hard nosed defensive and expolosive offensive teams that I've seen. That wishbone with 2 split ends, a good QB and 3 solid running backs made them hard to defend. The bad thing about "all time" teams is that most of the fans who keep up and vote are voting with a perspective of the last 3-4 years. But hey, it's just for fun. [Edited by tackle on 10-10-02 1:51P]

I saw a similiar situation in a game recently. A db ran the ball out of the endzone and was tackled inside the 10. I asked an official about it. He said that on a kick, it is dead in the endzone. The rule on an interception is that it is a touchback if the ball becomes "dead" in the endzone. If the db chooses to run it out, he can advance it. My take was that you can't be tackled for a safety after a pick, but you could bring it out and be tackled on the 1. Does anybody have anymore info?

You should probably only believe 10% of what you hear people in the stands saying. Most of them aren't at practice everyday and they don't have near as much insight as they think they do. I'm sure there are coaches who may unfairly treat a few players, but I would say that is the exception to the rule. I remember sitting in the stands one night listening to a "fan" criticize a coach over and over for his choice of quarterbacks. He felt the coach was playing favorites and wasn't playing the best kid. The "fan" moaned about how unfair it was to the team, the fans and the whole town. The team was Gallatin, the coach was Calvin Short and the game was in the second round of the playoffs with the Green Wave winning to go 12-0 on the season. I personally had a hard time believing anything that "fan" had to complain about. [Edited by tackle on 9-26-02 8:26A]

Timbranard, Once you get a few games into the playoffs, anything can happen. There are no "locks". Tyner, Goodpasture, Lipscomb, Sweetwater,... any of them (and other teams I haven't heard about) can make it out of the East Bracket and any of them could fall out. It only takes a 5 minute period of mistakes to turn a game around. (Just ask the big orange) It not only takes a good team to make it through the playoffs, you have to have a little luck along the way. That is why football is such a fun game to watch.

Portland won 12-7. Congratulations Panthers.

Trapped, you are right. I just got a call from my son at Lipscomb. ESPN has a camera crew in the cafeteria. Hang on a minute-the phone is ringing. You won't believe this. My wife's aunt's 4th cousin by marriage teaches english in Portland. Her nephew's brother-in-law's best friend's neighbor just called and said that Lee Corso, Chris Fowler and Mike Trico were set up at Portland's field for a special edition of "Freshman Game Day." They plan to air live on ESPN 3.14 this afternoon. They did run into one little problem. A lady in a housecoat ran out of the ESPN trailor chasing a pig named Rocky Top. In a vain effort to escape, the pig tried to cross the railroad track and was struck by a CSX train. Fowler said that when this tragic news reached Knoxville, this accidental death would stir up a trailer park frenzy. Corso said instead of giving out an apple pie tonight, ribs would be given to the player of the game-compliments of Rocky Top. Mike Duncan was seen eating a BBQ sandwich in the Portland coaches office a few minutes ago. ESPN.com is reporting that Jackie Sheryl and Tommy Tuberville are both furious with ESPN 3.14 for broadcasting this game. They feel the ratings for the Miss. State/Auburn game will be slashed. Seriously-I hope it's a great game between two fine schools that respect each other a lot. [Edited by tackle on 9-19-02 12:43P]

Will this be the CSS game of the week? It seems to be creating a lot of interest.