perfessor

"No" may be your answer, but mine is "yes". I wasn't going to comment on this topic because the last time I did, I was met with rude, mean-spirited opposition that was completely unjustified because I was simply stating an opinion. And that opinion was that maybe we should think about a modest reduction in the number of weight classes. Let me just say right now, if you don't like "long-winded" posts or "diatribes", just click off of this right now and try to keep your mean comments to yourself. As I have said before, to make a point you must use words and sentences, and I will never make a post on here unless I feel that it has been adequately stated. And I will also first say that these comments are presented only to give everyone some points to think about. I am not married to the idea that we need less weight classes, but I do believe that it may be worth trying at this time. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't know anything for sure, so I'm not trying to come across as the person with the answer to all of our problems. But yesterday, I took my team (with 14 weight classes filled) to a duals tournament that included five other teams. Of those other teams, one had 13 classes filled, one had seven, two had six, and one had four. If you do the math, you will see that of 70 individual match opportunities, we received 34 forfeits! 34!!! To me, the trip was worth it because we got to wrestle some good individuals from another state, and the team with 13 kids is very good (they beat us). But my kids were a little frustrated, making weight for this (it was one pound over scratch there) while a couple of them got only one match all day. Some of them didn't even get a good workout. You can't blame these coaches for the low participation in their programs. In fact, the coach of the team with four kids is in his first year at his school, and he is starting a program from scratch. There are new programs in our region, so we know that there are people out there trying to "grow the sport". But those new programs are hard to get off the ground for many reasons, not the least of which is getting kids out. People have posted on here that it has to do with the coach's attitude or personality or whatever, and that may be true in some small way. But I feel that there are some institutional problems here, not the least of which is maybe too many weight classes. You can say what you want, but I see way too many forfeits out there. And I'm not talking about strategic forfeiting. I'm talking about lack of participation forfeiting. You train and train and train, watch your diet, go to bed at night instead of staying up playing video games, and you end up getting forfeit wins. Some kids are glad to just get a win, but the ones who work hard want to wrestle. Coaches try to increase attendance at home matches, but a lot of casual spectators who show up are turned off because first, they don't understand scoring and the conduct of matches (a major problem in my opinion) and secondly, they sometimes see a dual meet that is over in 20 minutes and has been a seemingly endless parade of hand-raising with little wrestling action at all. They think "This is it? What a waste of time and money!" Some people have posted that wrestling is the sixth most popular sport in terms of participation. Yeah, sixth out of ten. And if your reply to that is "Yeah, but they only listed the top ten", then I say what's left? Golf is there. Soccer is there, above wrestling. What's left? Field hockey? And as for those who cite the growing numbers of wrestling participants, think about this. Isn't participation growing now in nearly all if not all sports? I believe the answer is yes, and this could be attributed to general population growth. The bottom line is you can find statistics to back up your argument, no matter if it's right or wrong. We rarely have trouble fielding full teams at my school. And I know of programs around the state with fifty or more kids. We wrestled in a tournament with a school from Georgia with nearly ninety participants! Am I saying limit the opportunities for all but 15 or 20 of those kids? Certainly not. This is what JV is for. The way I see it, competition is a good thing not only among teams but within teams. Let the kids compete for the starting spots, and the cream will rise to the top. The quality of the wrestling would increase with actual depth within a wrestling team and it might help to improve practice attendance if your kids are being pushed by someone for their spot. I know I don't have 14 elite wrestlers who can compete with anybody out there. Anybody who knows me knows that is the case. In fact, for some coaches, if they are lucky enough to have a kid to fill a spot, that kid pretty much becomes just that: filler. You have to work with that kid and help him get better, but when he has 30 matches and gets pinned 30 times, he may not come back next year. Then you don't even have the filler and you have to forfeit. If you have 50 kids in your program, look down that roster and ask yourself how many quality kids you have. How many of those kids could wrestle with just about anybody and compete? For those of us with 20 kids or less (and those, also like me, who are average coaches at best), you just don't feel real good about yourself when you put a beginner or otherwise not very good kid out there with an elite wrestler. Then that elite wrestler goes out and builds a big lead by taking down and cutting, taking down and cutting, or just comes out and tackles the kid and pins him in seven seconds. Now I know that's going to happen no matter what, but it would naturally happen less with less weight classes. And you would have less kids in over their heads quit because they think they can't compete or because of the humiliation in front of family or friends. How's the sport going to grow like that? These beginners need to get experience just like any kid in any other sport that fields freshman and JV teams. For those of you fond of comparisons with other sports, do you want to see a football game featuring a quarterback who just picked up a football for the first time last week? Less weight classes equals more JV opportunities for kids with less than outstanding abilities. As far as the feeder program argument, that's just not possible in some places. I work in a rural county school, where there are just no resources for nor interest in wrestling. What little youth program we have is run by my assistant and myself, and we used to do okay back when the AAU season was in the spring. But since they moved the tournaments back into the high school season, we've been hurting. Last year, two of the tournaments we could take our kids to were canceled at the last minute. Yeah, most of those schools with 50-60 kids have great youth programs, but they also have full-time coaches and facilities with which to work with those kids. Those programs are wonderful and I love what they're doing, but most of us don't have those opportunities. And finally, there are those who say a reduction in classes would sound the death knell for our great sport. That it will be the beginning of the end, that little by little high school wrestling will evaporate from that point and eventually cease to exist. Who says a reduction in the number of weight divisions is etched in stone, permanent, or otherwise never to be amended? If we can reduce them now, we can increase them later. You gotta do what you gotta do when you gotta do it. Right now, most (I dare say) wrestling programs in this state have less than a full roster. If we have less classes, say maybe 12, for at least a little while, my hope is that participation and attendance and the overall quality of wrestling in Tennessee will improve. Then we can bump it back up to 14, or maybe 16, or even 18 or 20 weight classes!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahem. Sorry, got a little excited there. Wrestling is not going to die as long as there are people out there like you and me. Even if we continue for years to come on our present course (which, again, is alright by me), we'll continue to get the kids out that we've been getting out and their parents will support us and our school boards and directors will let us have whatever they've been giving us. But there are programs, unfortunately, that will fall by the wayside because the coach moves on to another job or gives up wrestling because it's become too much of a strain for the money or because nobody's showing up at the first of November to wrestle. The coaches are the ones who make it happen and as long as we're here, there will be wrestling. Overall, I myself (and there are many who may dispute this) have observed a decline in the popularity of wrestling. We always get second dibs on the gym, no media coverage, and far less respect around the school than we should. And I personally feel that there are many things that could be done to make the sport more fan friendly and broaden its appeal. I will live with what we have for as long as we have it, but I will at least be open to any changes that come along. And the one thing right now I'd like to see is how the NFHS would align new weight classes. I might not agree with it in the end, but I really think this is something worth looking at. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."

Matthew Thomas of DC was NOT pinned in the 119 match...it was a 7-6 decision. Just wanted that to be known. Also, Sean Johnson (189) and Dylan Bryant (215) are also from DC, not A!

Region 1 has 103 and 119.

Due to repairs being done to the gym floor at Crockett, the Dec. 9 match has been moved to Greeneville.

I have them, but I left them at school...I was looking over the score sheets, and I think D-B went 3-0. They looked awfully strong. West Greene is much improved, as is Sullivan East. Really, everyone looked pretty good; I was impressed with just about everyone at some point during the day. And thanks to Bill Potter, we were done shortly after 4. I thought it was a pretty good day, all in all.

Wrestling will begin as soon as the mass weigh-in is complete...should hopefully be between 9 and 9:30...it was scheduled for a 9:30 start, but with 9 teams on 2 mats, we need to get started as soon as we can.

Preseason at Crockett will be on Saturday, Nov. 22. There will be a mass hydration test/weigh-in beginning at around 7 AM. Wrestling should begin around 9:30.

I don't understand why Jeff Co. has to be in this thing every year. If not for that, West wouldn't have to play twice. No matter how well or how poorly Cocke Co. or Crockett play against West, it is always diminished or magnified becuase West always plays twice. I'd also like to see them mix up the matchups from year to year.

I won't try to convince you that seven Olympic weights is a good idea or that adding 118 and 225 to college is a bad idea because I feel the same way you do about it. It shouldn't be too hard for an entire nation to find world-class athletes for international competition. And there isn't a shortage of scholarship-calibre wrestlers for college programs either. There are many high schoolers that would probably go on to the collegiate level but don't because they don't fit into any of the weight classes. In college, 12 weights would be better, and ten is not enough. I'm just saying that on the high school level, it is difficult for many programs, big- and small-school alike, to find enough kids to fill 14 spots. And again, this is only part of the argument. I also say again that it is not my life's work to get weight class reduction passed by the NFHS, the TSSAA, or anyone else. Somebody said it was under consideration, so I just offered some positive thoughts that I have had on the subject.

No news flash to me...if you can get over the "verbosity" of my original post, how about trying to read it? If you're not too bored by it, that is. This point was mentioned more than once. You see, when trying to support an idea, it's probably good to try to cover all the bases. This takes words and sentences. This point is covered in there, too: We usually have a full line-up at our school. So it's a non-issue to me. If the NFHS decides not to act on it (by the way, I have visited its website, and nothing is mentioned about this), then I will abide by it and happily continue along as always. It's not a problem for me to have a 14-spot line-up. I just think maybe it's a good idea to reduce the number of classes, for a number of reasons, not only for the benefit of small schools. Maybe it won't work out to be a good idea. I don't know. But I do know that suggestions and opinions posted on an open forum should not be met with mean-spirited and hateful responses. Thoughtful, intelligent, and clever sarcasm perhaps, but not some of the stuff that gets on here.

Well, sir, you fail to convince me as well. I still say that reduction of weight classes is not going to keep kids from coming out for wrestling...

I would just like to say in response to your question that the part of my post you are talking about was in regard to my earlier post concerning my belief that less classes would make for better time management for dual meets and tournaments. If you read the original it said that this has been brought up most often in instances where teams do in fact field full lineups. So it's not a contradiction, but really two different arguments altogether on the same subject. I hope you all realize that these are just my thoughts and opinions on the topic. I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone else, just making a suggestion and trying to back it up. And I tried to be as concise as possible. If you are bored by it, then don't read it.

Hey, he's right! The entire state and over 100 schools CAN collectively fill 32 spots in 14 weight classes!! I guess the state tournament IS all that really matters!!! There's no need to worry about teams, dual competition, or any of those minor details that go on during the other 80 days of wrestling season!!! Case closed!!!!

You are absolutely correct that shrinking participation in wrestling is a terrible idea...but that's not what is being suggested. The fact is that participation is not what it should be. I don't think that a kid who has 20 matches in a season with as many as half of those being forfeit wins is really getting the most of his high school wrestling experience. If you say that a kid who goes out on the mat and gets his hand raised because the other team doesn't have someone at his weight for him to wrestle is participating, well, then you are entitled to that opinion. But I say, especially after that same kid has put in grueling practice time and sacrificed some of his meals to get there and wrestle, that he is being deprived of the opportunity to participate. Kids want to wrestle. The true competitors are disappointed when they receive forfeits The problem is that kids are not participating. Sure, there are high schools in this state that start the season with 50-70 kids, but I doubt there are many that retain those lofty numbers through, say, Christmas. Wrestling practice rooms across the state are full of bright faces on November 1, but come December 1, those who find it is not the sport for them will have fallen by the wayside. And there are usually many who fit that category. Also, at any given moment, how many kids are too sick or hurt to participate? Again, there are many (in my experience, at least). The point is, I don't think there are many (if any) high schools in Tennessee with at least 50 able bodies once the season begins. And if there are any that do, what's wrong with encouraging fierce competition for the available spots? You want to put your best out there, whether it's 14, 12, or whatever. I find that when kids have to work for something, when they have someone pushing them, that it brings out the best in them. I don't wish to see any kid denied the opportunity to participate, but if they are coming to practice and doing their best and they crack the starting lineup, then good for them. I know it's harder to keep a kid out for wrestling when he is destined for the JV, but if he has what it takes he will stick with it and make the lineup, if not this year, then next. There is nothing wrong with having a big JV team. It keeps your program healthy and bodes well for your future. Many tournaments out there allow 'B' team entries, and some of them even allow 'B' teamers to medal. Many schools have a nice, competitive JV schedule. The excessive forfeiting point wasn't the best part of my argument anyway. I wish people would pick up on the fact that 14 weight classes turns meets, especially double duals or tri's on one mat, and tournaments especially, into marathons. Parents and friends only have only so much patience and time to spend per week. Look, the whole idea behind reducing the number of weight classes is designed to increase participation. I wish every kid in my school would come out for wrestling. But they don't, and they won't unless steps are taken to make it more attractive. Nobody is pushing for 15 positions on a football team, seven on a basketball team, or 11 on a baseball team. The number of wrestling weights is disproportionate to positions in other sports. It just so happens that in wrestling, you can field a team without all the positions covered. And when the other team has one covered that you don't, they get six points for it. As many points as for a pin or disqualification! I'm not saying there's something bad wrong about that, but those who face these circumstances all winter long might say otherwise.

I have always been in favor of reducing the number of weight classes back to 12 and can't imagine why I am part of a seemingly small minority of those who do. Many say that the way to make the sport grow is keep the number of weight classes at 14, maybe even increase the number to more than that. More weight classes provide more opportunities for participation. Well, the fact is that, especially in schools with smaller student populations, it is difficult to fill all the spots because not only the numbers, but the interest is just not there. There are many larger schools that have this same problem. High school kids see their school's wrestling team, and many of them will think, "Well, they're forfeiting five or six or seven or whatever weight classes, so it must not be much fun or worth the sacrifice." That's the way kids think about extracurricular activities. They only want to participate if everyone else is doing it. Another major reason participation in wrestling is low is because attendance at wrestling events is low. I have found that when spectators see exciting wrestling, you experience an increase in kids who want to try it. Excessive forfeiting does not provide that excitement. And for many people, the fact that they don't understand wrestling (the conduct of a match, the scoring, the individual v. the team concept, etc.) keeps them away. I know lots of folks who otherwise would enjoy wrestling, but the experience is a disappointment to them because of the large number of forfeits. They pay the admission price, and then see as little as two or three matches. This is the truth. I'm sure you've all seen the scores on Intermat where there was very little wrestling and a whole lot of forfeits going on. I have personally seen dual scores that were comprised of as many as 12 forfeits. 12!!! My school is relatively large and seldom forfeits matches. So my support of less weight classes is not based on the fact that we can't field a full team. But I do feel for the many smaller schools out there that, despite the recent efforts to give them their own state duals, simply must wrestle larger schools if they want to have any kind of dual season. How many times have you seen a small school win more matches actually wrestled, only to lose the meet because of forfeits? So to me, the argument that more weight classes helps the sport grow does not hold water. Forfeit after forfeit after forfeit to many people is a mundane exercise in hand raising and mainly serves to deprive good wrestlers of matches and decent teams of wins. Someone may be convinced to give wrestling a chance and go to a match, then be bored out of their socks by six or eight forfeits. Then they may never come back. Now I do understand that strategic management of forfeits may help a team avoid losing, and I am not against forfeiting the last matches in a duals tournament-type setting to save your starters for the next opponent once victory is assured. But to me and to many others that I talk to, forfeiting should simply not be part of your game plan if it doesn't have to be. And the sad reality for probably the majority of wrestling programs in the state is that it has to be. Having 14 weight classes to fill sure doesn't help them. Now I know a reduction to even 12 classes isn't going to solve these problems for everyone. But it will help many. There will still be forfeit wins given out of necessity. But it will get some of those struggling teams 12 points closer and for many of them, 12 points is all they need to be competitive. Reduction should be done in part in the interest of competition, to make the playing field more level for everyone. And again, this is not only for the benefit of small schools, but for all. I feel that decreasing the number of weight classes would also serve to help streamline the sport and make it more fan-friendly. This past year, I have heard grumblings from spectators and even coaches that in dual matches that do in fact feature full teams, it takes too long and people shouldn't be out that late on a school night. And what about those weekend tournaments where the finals start at 10:00 Saturday night? The tournament ends after midnight and many of the participants may be facing a two or three or more hour drive home. Too many tournaments these days are run straight through at a frenetic pace because of the pressure to wrap it up by a decent hour. That's ten or 12 hours of constant hustling and getting coaches and wrestlers from mat to mat as well as the emotional roller coaster of winning and losing along the way, and you can't take a break to eat because you have a kid up all the time, and all of this is a tremendous drain on many of us. Dropping a couple of weight classes would certainly help in that regard! And it is also widely accepted, as previously stated, that kids are getting bigger and we have outgrown the 103 class. The argument to raise the smallest weight class should have nothing to do with the lack of upperclassmen in that class, but the lack of kids in general. It is getting harder and harder to find healthy kids that weigh less than 103, and it is time to adjust the minimum weight accordingly. My suggestions for new classes: 108, 117, 126, 132, 138, 145, 155, 167, 176, 189, 225, and 285. I'd even like to see a return to "unlimited" instead of 285. People, the time has come to seriously think about a reduction of weight classes. It is good for the sport and the kids. Wrestling is too diluted with excessive spots and the time has come to embrace a move that would improve the chances of wrestling's survival. Participation and attendance figures are so low that wrestling is quickly becoming an endangered species in the high school sporting landscape. Think about it, please.

Well, now that's a pretty bold statement from someone who is obviously a very ignorant and obnoxious poster. Who is Crockettfreshman? Most of Crockett's freshman wrestlers were in practice at 4:35 this afternoon, and those who weren't (there are three who aren't practicing because of injury and one who had a band commitment) would have no idea who Bradley Robbins is and would not know enough to make such a statement. In fact, I can't imagine anyone at Crockett making these kinds of comments. The coaching staff of Crockett wrestling neither endorses nor approves of the above statement. In fact, it would be much appreciated if the person who posted this would remove it and if they are posting under this name and do not attend Crockett, they should cease and desist immediately. The David Crockett High School wrestling team has nothing but the highest regard and respect for both Jefferson County and Morristown West and we wish them both the best of luck. And if this person does attend Crockett, or is in fact a member of the Crockett wrestling team, they'd better hope that I never find out who they are.

First, the match did begin on time...it was scheduled for a 6:30 start, and that was about the time it began. If the score was 18-15 when you left, then you must have left sometime after the 171 match. As for the order of the matches (DC v. SS, D-B vs. SS, DC vs. D-B ), I'm not sure what could or should be done about that. Regarding the JV matches, there were 8 between D-B and Crockett. There were two guys wrestling twice, so those 2 wrestled in matches before the varsity, and the other 6 matches were held after the varsity. Three varsity team matches and eight individual JV matches, started at 6:30 and the whole thing wrapped up by 9:30. Three hours. This seems reasonable to me. Unfortunately, it always takes a little longer when you have three teams and one mat, and as long as there are 14 individual matches per dual meet, it is the nature of the beast to take some time. And after sitting through the whole thing myself, I'm sure this was far from the "match of the week".

I don't see a place to click wrestling...other sports are there, like soccer, football, volleyball, etc., but no wrestling!

Well, after calling and leaving several messages at the TSSAA office, they finally added the 11/17 testing date at Crockett. Only problem is they left the 11/10 date up for Crockett as well. I have called and spoken to the actual person who is supposedly in charge of this kind of stuff, and she said all she can do is forward it to the guy who does make these changes, but she added "maybe he will, maybe he won't". Well, thanks for nothing. Coaches of northeast Tennessee: When making your testing plans, please be aware that the mass test at Crockett is on Saturday, Nov. 17, prior to our preseason event. If you make your plans according to the official TSSAA website and come to Crockett High School on Nov. 10, you will be coming to an empty school, 'cause we're gonna be at Science Hill for our first round of testing. Thanks and spread the word if you hear of anyone making plans for the wrong date.

The mass testing dates have been posted on the TSSAA site. However, for those in the Tricities area, the date listed for the David Crockett HS testing is incorrect. That date should be 11/17, not 11/10 as posted. The 11/10 testing will be held at Science Hill prior to the Waage Takedown Tournament. So for all coaches making plans to test your wrestlers, you will have two chances, on consecutive weekends. The appropriate people have been contacted and the date will be corrected on the TSSAA site as soon as possible. Sorry for any confusion caused by this.

Wesley Dulaney of David Crockett posted some huge numbers in '00 and '01...he qb'd the Pioneers to the postseason in 2000. He was also an excellent student. I think Baugh went to Tusculum.

Greeneville looked very good at the Crockett preseason. Nobody beat them, and that was with many of their best wrestlers absent (band trip, Myers brothers out of town, etc.). Chuckey-Doak also went undefeated; they wrestled Tennessee High, West Greene, and Boone. Actually, everybody looked pretty good...numbers seemed to be up on all of the teams, and some of the individuals were very impressive. Of course, it was only a preseason event and the actual lineups and match results when we start for real will probably look a lot different.

Wrestlers and fans of Region 1 may view pictures from this past Saturday at: www.reddogphotos.com Click on "galleries", and you will find two galleries for the tournament. There are over 300 photos posted there.

3rd @ 112 was Call (D-Bennett) 3rd @ 171 was Kilgore (M-West)