Private Recruiting

[itzme]

I for one have a difficult time thinking that someone would just give away 10, 20, or 30 thousand dollars (under the table) and not be able to have a legal tax deduction.  That is just too much $$$$$$ to walk away from. 

 

If this were a wide spread problem the parents of students that pay full tuition would be raising _ _ _ _ because little johnny or suzie are not playing and the financial aid kids are.  These wealthy parents would  terminate the contract of the headmaster in a new york minute.

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You're right about that. If people are doing this, it must be very well hidden. Hard for me to believe that it could be that closely guarded a secret, and it is definitely true (at least in my experience) that "full-tuition" parents would never stand for it.

[RUBlind!!!]

I've got an idea.  The public play public and the private play private. 

Would this be a bad idea?  Don't think so! thumb

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That's what I've said. The state of Mississippi does have the public and private sports in totally different divisions. Many wouldn't agree with that here in Tn. RollRedRoll said that we shouldn't separate he may have a point I don't know. But aren't we already separated by A, AA, AAA??? My point with separating the Private and Public sports would put an end to all of this arguing. Plus kids would go to a Private school for atheletic intentions anymore. The Private schools would still have atheletes but not as many. Kids would not be as attracted to just go for the purpose of sports. The kids they would attract would be more interested in the academics that they would get rather than like now being part of a dynasty that dominates little Public single A or AA teams. Yeah they may still attract some atheletes to their programs but not as many and thus equal out the talent in all levels. Then the kids at the smaller Public schools would experience more success in athletics.

[RUBlind!!!]

I waver, but I lean more against total separation.

 

I am for it because it would end at least one complaint of the smaller public schools (having to compete against small private schools who have "limitless" zones).

 

I am against it because (1) it doesn't address the open-zone issue (if privates are being separated for being different, why aren't open-zoned publics afforded the same difference consideration?), (2) it doesn't settle the question of "Who's The Best?" (and I guarantee that, with a complete split, some of the small publics who complain now about facing privates would toot "we're better than those private school snobs" win they win their DI titles), and (3) the pure principle of the issue.  There is no separation in the workplace, in social situations - in most aspects of the "real world".  Why promote to impressionable kids an environment of separation and a climate of competing with only your closest peers when that's not what they'll see in "life" when they are adults?

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RollRedRoll I respect your opinions. The funny thing you state above about promoting an environment of separation to impressionable kids......How many kids that live in the projects go to PRIVATE schools???? Open up your eyes!! Separation is everywhere to an extent. Most kids that go to Private schools come from upper (Primarily) to middle class families. The Public schools are full of all classes upper to lower. Before anyone mis-takes what I'm saying about classes. We're talking about how much money a family makes. Now back to what I was saying. The Private school kids have a lot more going for them most of the time compared to the Public school kids. So when they play each other and the Private dominates the Public every year it kinda knocks those kids down. Feel a little inferior. So if you make a totally different classification for the Private schools. These Public schools kids will get to experience a little more success.

[hoopsinstead]

You're right about that.  If people are doing this, it must be very well hidden.  Hard for me to believe that it could be that closely guarded a secret, and it is definitely true (at least in my experience) that "full-tuition" parents would never stand for it.

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Believe it--it has been happening for years. All you have to do is ask someone involved in athletics in the Southwest corner of the state. I can't speak for Middle TN (or Brentwood since it appears that is where you are from), but in West TN, this type of activity is common knowledge. What apparently isn't common knowledge is that it is illegal when the kid is a varsity athlete. Again, there are upset parents but they are hushed in the interest of winning or being accused as a racist. We don't need any more info. to corroborate that it is happening. What I would like to know is how the "work study" and "loans" work. Would somebody who knows something about these two recruiting tools enlighten us as to how they can be legitimately used to pay $4 to $5m (half of tuition that can't be covered by a needs based scholarship per most private schools bylaws) in tuition each and every year?

[RUBlind!!!]

Believe it--it has been happening for years. All you have to do is ask someone involved in athletics in the Southwest corner of the state. I can't speak for Middle TN (or Brentwood since it appears that is where you are from), but in West TN, this type of activity is common knowledge. What apparently isn't common knowledge is that it is illegal when the kid is a varsity athlete. Again, there are upset parents but they are hushed in the interest of winning or being accused as a racist. We don't need any more info. to corroborate that it is happening. What I would like to know is how the "work study" and "loans" work. Would somebody who knows something about these two recruiting tools enlighten us as to how they can be legitimately used to pay $4 to $5m (half of tuition that can't be covered by a needs based scholarship per most private schools bylaws) in tuition each and every year?

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I'm from middle Tn and would like to know the answer to that as well. I spoke of a local public high school that lost their starting short stop (Sophomore) to the local Private school in middle of the season. The kid actually told the year before how the Private school coach wanted him to come and play for him. The Private Coach told the new Public high school coach last summer that if he hadn't come when he did he would have had another one of his players. Then the kid leaves in middle of the season to play for the Private teams JV until next year when he'll play for their varsity. The other weird thing is this kids parents don't have alot of money. The father works two jobs just to pay for their 2 kids baseball esentials. So the question of how did they afford it maybe a voucher???? I don't know. But I'd like to know how that all works as well.

[itzme]

Believe it--it has been happening for years. All you have to do is ask someone involved in athletics in the Southwest corner of the state. I can't speak for Middle TN (or Brentwood since it appears that is where you are from), but in West TN, this type of activity is common knowledge. What apparently isn't common knowledge is that it is illegal when the kid is a varsity athlete. Again, there are upset parents but they are hushed in the interest of winning or being accused as a racist. We don't need any more info. to corroborate that it is happening. What I would like to know is how the "work study" and "loans" work. Would somebody who knows something about these two recruiting tools enlighten us as to how they can be legitimately used to pay $4 to $5m (half of tuition that can't be covered by a needs based scholarship per most private schools bylaws) in tuition each and every year?

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I'm not generally a naive person, and my wife and I are very actively involved at the private school my kids attend, including the athletics. I really think I would have heard at least a rumor or gossip if this practice went on here. Believe me, I know many parents (including me) that would not condone or allow that to happen.

 

It's cheating...pure and simple, and I would personally turn them in if I knew it happened.

[mjgIII]

I'm not generally a naive person, and my wife and I are very actively involved at the private school my kids attend, including the athletics.  I really think I would have heard at least a rumor or gossip if this practice went on here.  Believe me, I know many parents (including me) that would not condone or allow that to happen. 

 

It's cheating...pure and simple, and I would personally turn them in if I knew it happened.

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You know, people like rublind and hoops have been making accusations for years. Sour grapes. If you are so sure someone is cheating I have an idea: TURN THEM IN. Otherwise, pipe down. So and so said and I heard doesn't cut it. If you have proof, get it to the TSSAA. I'm sure they'll act on it. And I want to meet some of these rich folks giving all this money away and the parents that condone recruits coming in and taking their kids spots. Ain't happening.

[hoopsinstead]

You know, people like rublind and hoops have been making accusations for years.  Sour grapes.  If you are so sure someone is cheating I have an idea:  TURN THEM IN.  Otherwise, pipe down.  So and so said and I heard doesn't cut it.  If you have proof, get it to the TSSAA.  I'm sure they'll act on it.  And I want to meet some of these rich folks giving all this money away and the parents that condone recruits coming in and taking their kids spots.  Ain't happening.

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Matt,

 

Given that the last two days post are the first time I've discussed this issue on CoachT, I hardly think that constitutes years??? Also, I can tell from the fella from Brentwood Academy's post above that evidently you guys in Middle Tn (and I guess specifically at your Nashville Catholic schools) don't have the same frequency or severity we have seen over here that began within a few years of the creation of D2. While I'm not aware of any of it happening at my kids school, it is a frequent topic of conversation and source of frustration for parents at schools we compete against--and yes, they constantly complain about it. From our standpoint, the only sour grapes would be in losing to a school that does it. However, there seems to be a consensus among all the rest of the "clean" schools that games against such an opponent really don't count. As far as reporting someone to TSSAA, they require conclusive proof. In other words, someone has to tell the truth that was at the table. Heresay and circumstantial evidence doesn't get it. They don't just go digging in someone's checking a/c (although one would think cash would be the safer way to operate).

[mjgIII]

Matt,

 

Given that the last two days post are the first time I've discussed this issue on CoachT, I hardly think that constitutes years??? Also, I can tell from the fella from Brentwood Academy's post above that evidently you guys in Middle Tn (and I guess specifically at your Nashville Catholic schools) don't have the same frequency or severity we have seen over here that began within a few years of the creation of D2. While I'm not aware of any of it happening at my kids school, it is a frequent topic of conversation and source of frustration for parents at schools we compete against--and yes, they constantly complain about it. From our standpoint, the only sour grapes would be in losing to a school that does it. However, there seems to be a consensus among all the rest of the "clean" schools that games against such an opponent really don't count. As far as reporting someone to TSSAA, they require conclusive proof. In other words, someone has to tell the truth that was at the table. Heresay and circumstantial evidence doesn't get it. They don't just go digging in someone's checking a/c (although one would think cash would be the safer way to operate).

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No, nothing personal. I've just heard the same recruiting stories since 1973. Every single year. Nothing ever gets done which tells me either they are not occurring or the TSSAA is not doing its job. I, of course, can only speak to this area, but I just don't buy the rich alumnus footing all these tuitions under the table storys. To be found guilty of cheating, I would hope, would require conclusive proof. All I hear are accusations...for 30+ years...and I think one conviction. And I never hear these accusations from teams that are winning. Wonder why that is? My guess is that it's a reflection of the times. It must be someone else's fault we're losing.

[itzme]

Matt,

 

Given that the last two days post are the first time I've discussed this issue on CoachT, I hardly think that constitutes years??? Also, I can tell from the fella from Brentwood Academy's post above that evidently you guys in Middle Tn (and I guess specifically at your Nashville Catholic schools) don't have the same frequency or severity we have seen over here that began within a few years of the creation of D2. While I'm not aware of any of it happening at my kids school, it is a frequent topic of conversation and source of frustration for parents at schools we compete against--and yes, they constantly complain about it. From our standpoint, the only sour grapes would be in losing to a school that does it. However, there seems to be a consensus among all the rest of the "clean" schools that games against such an opponent really don't count. As far as reporting someone to TSSAA, they require conclusive proof. In other words, someone has to tell the truth that was at the table. Heresay and circumstantial evidence doesn't get it. They don't just go digging in someone's checking a/c (although one would think cash would be the safer way to operate).

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I'm not doubting you at all. It just makes me sick to think about that happening, and I understand your point about TSSAA enforcement. Why not go internally to the school's administration though, unless they are complicit?

[mcallister1479]

I've got an idea.  The public play public and the private play private. 

Would this be a bad idea?  Don't think so! thumb

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This is a TERRIBLE idea. It's what they do in Mississippi and it's awful.

[cbg]

The reason that the stories keep coming up is because parents want everyone to think that their little Johnny & Suzie are great athletes. The fact of the matter is the parents would be better off trying to make their child a national merit finalist. The % of people that make it in athletics is very small. On the other hand if they have a great education they can not only make good money for their working career but they will have the brains to invest that money for retirement. How many former professional athletes are broke in their reitirement years?