HERCULES?

[FromFieldtoPitch]

No one is ignoring the issues, certaily not me. My credibility in the strength world relies on my drug free status. What I don't like to see is a general blanket statement that some athletes have to be using and you know that they are. Does that make me sensitive? Please. MLB? If anyone thinks that the steroid issue and otherwise is a new issue, then that's where we all need to open our eyes. HOw baseball became the leading drug sport is beyond me. All sports have had issues with performance enhancing drugs long before now. In the strength world, we are so behind on testing that is literally a joke. That being said, it's still something we need to stay on top of. My entire debate here is that unless you know 100%, then making any type of accusation is simply unfair. Does that mean no one is using? Certainly not.

 

It's a numbers thing and an experience thing. If I had said anyone's name, it would be an accusation, but I have not. I have no names and I have no "proof." That does not mean that I don't know 100%, and it also doesn't mean that I will back down from what I've said just because some people don't like it or it makes people uncomfortable.

 

Here are the facts. Hopefully there are people paying attention instead of sticking their heads in the sand.

 

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/sec...ter305/305a.jsp

 

- "In the USA, the reported rate of anabolic steroid use is 6 to 11% among high-school-aged males."

 

- "A typical user is a male (95%) athlete (65%), usually a football player, heavyweight wrestler, or weight lifter. He is more likely to attend a metropolitan school of > 700 students, to be a minority student, and to have received steroids from a black-market source (60%)."

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGGG2OIKE1.DTL

 

- "A national study of high school seniors, the Monitoring the Future Study by researchers at the University of Michigan, put steroid use at 4.0 percent in 2002, up from 2.5 percent two years earlier. Yesalis said use among teenage girls, now at 1 percent to 2 percent, doubled during the 1990s.

 

The Michigan study also showed a sizable shift in attitudes. In 1992, nearly 71 percent of high school seniors thought people "risked harming themselves" by taking steroids. Ten years later, that number had dropped to 57 percent."

 

http://www.aap.org/family/steroids.htm

 

- "Most commonly, steroid use can be found among the following groups:

 

* Athletes involved in sports that rely on strength and size, like football, wrestling, or baseball

* Endurance athletes, such as those involved in track-and-field and swimming

* Athletes involved in weight training or bodybuilding

* Anyone interested in building and defining muscles "

[BigWesDad]

Nice references

 

I'd be curious as to what your experience with athletes, especially the strength type, actually is.

 

I have been involved in strength athletics all my life. I understand the percentages based on national studies and so forth. The stuff I see in your post is very typical. Very stereotypical even. That is based on real experience and some of that is just BS.

 

I can assure you that my head is not in the sand nor am I turning my head and ignoring the issue. If you have no proof, then the argument is ill fated. That being said, that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem but, I'm not going to point a finger at a kid because they may be muscular, a heavy weight-which is a complete BS statement, or someone interested in becoming stronger. As uch as a problem that there is with performance enhancing drugs, there is as big an issue with knee jerk reactions and speculation that is not based on real knowledge or fact. I'm still of the mind that anyone is innocent until proven otherwise. If the issue is this much of a concern, then by all means, testing should be institued. But, that is a different debate.

[gun816]

ok first of all about steriods, When I graduated in 2003, I knew of 3 football players, 2 baseball, and 1 wrestler that was in high school. They did not get it from there parents they all got if from the same person. The wrestler didnt even place in state so dont jump to conclusion there. So I do know that steriods are available to high school students. I know because I was on the football, baseball, and wrestling teams, and worked out with them. They were not ashamed of it.

[gun816]

But back to topic Frankie Morgan the 189 from Union County has to be one of if not the strongest guy in state. Reviez would be my #2. The 152 from Kingston is strong for his size too.

[BigWesDad]

what kind of lifts for these guys?

[wrestler555]

I'm sure the 119 from East Ridge, Cristian Rudas has gotta on up there too...

[television]

I'm sure the 119 from East Ridge, Cristian Rudas has gotta on up there too...

o yes that kid does not look like a 19!

[FromFieldtoPitch]

That being said, that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem but, I'm not going to point a finger at a kid because they may be muscular, a heavy weight-which is a complete BS statement, or someone interested in becoming stronger. As uch as a problem that there is with performance enhancing drugs, there is as big an issue with knee jerk reactions and speculation that is not based on real knowledge or fact.

 

Once again, I have not pointed a finger at any kid. And there is no argument. The kids in the schools, the wrestlers in the programs, know that this stuff is going on. As one poster pointed out, steroids is not a ticket to the podium. Strength will only suffice for technique to a certain point.

 

If you have no proof, then the argument is ill fated.

 

Would you like to wait for a syringe to fall out of a wrestler's bag? What kind of proof do you want?

 

I'm struggling to see your motivation here. If you are an expert on athletes and strength, then surely you can admit that out of the 168 placers from this past weekend, there is a small percentage that have used steroids. That is not an accusation nor is it an assumption. It's acceptance and recognition that there are kids out there that are harming themselves by using steroids.

 

What is the point in downplaying it?

[BigWesDad]

Once again, I have not pointed a finger at any kid. And there is no argument.

You made a generalized statement, a blanket statement, if you will. You said, you knew that some of them had to using, you just knew it. So specificly, no, you didn't point a finger at a specific kid, you generealized and there inlies the issue I'm having.

 

The kids in the schools, the wrestlers in the programs, know that this stuff is going on. As one poster pointed out, steroids is not a ticket to the podium. Strength will only suffice for technique to a certain point.

Would you like to wait for a syringe to fall out of a wrestler's bag? What kind of proof do you want?

I would much prefer that than to assume someone is guilty of anything. Proof would be a positive test result, something of the like but, because someone is big or wants to be big, is muscular or even a strength athlete is not a reason to assume anything.

 

I'm struggling to see your motivation here. If you are an expert on athletes and strength, then surely you can admit that out of the 168 placers from this past weekend, there is a small percentage that have used steroids. That is not an accusation nor is it an assumption. It's acceptance and recognition that there are kids out there that are harming themselves by using steroids.

Based on what? Because it happens I'm to assume any of these kids have done anything illegal? Would I be shocked? No but, that's not what I'm getting at. To say that out of 168 placers that a small percentage could be potentially using, and you are saying more than potentially by your statements, call me crazy but, that would certainly rate as an assumption in my book.

 

What is the point in downplaying it?

I'm not at all downplaying it. My original arguement is, unless you know, then be quiet. Proof for using should be required and I asked simply, how do you know? Do you know? Do you really know that any of these kids were using anything? Like I said, I'm still a firm believer in that you are innocent until otherwise proven guilty.

 

Yes, there are kids out there risking much by using but, I still think there are many that are playing by the rules. What I am not going to do is assume anything. If you feel it is a problem, then by all means, lobby for testing and such but, I'm not going to generalize and make a blanket statement that some of them are using and I know when there is no proof of that.

 

Have you ever been accused of taking steroids? I have. And like your previoius statements, it was assumed. Why? Because I'm a large person...like one of your references. I'm also interested in strength. And, I can move a good amount of weight. Enough so that I've been a world champion in powerlifting. And because of that, folks have assumed that I just had to be using and they just knew it. I have been tested many times and my pride, integrity and my way of life have always lead me to be drug free. So imagine the pain that was associated with being accused of something like this and not having ever done so. These people did not spend the years busting fanny in a gym and eating the right things and supplementing and studying. They simply assumed and because some, a small percentage have done so, then because I met the criteria like in your references, I had to be using. You can believe that no one enjoys integrity being questioned. I certianly didn't and take a great deal of pride that I have managed ot have a long career and did so without drugs. It hurt pretty deeply to have others think of me in that light. Now, think about your statement and imagine 15, 16, 17 year old young men reading it. Imagine how they must feel. All based on some stereotypical garbage and studies by whom? Anyone that has ever worn a jock strap?

 

Unless you are certain and have proof, I stick by my statement, stay quiet.

[mofo11]

I heard hussein of baylor(140) benches 290... the guy is strong

[redraider0185]

I heard hussein of baylor(140) benches 290... the guy is strong

 

Yeah not quite. But Jed can definately power clean 225+. Corey Manson is also very strong. I saw him put up 225 twice on bench the other day.

[kdxdude]

My vote goes for Bear Cat Brown, I've heard he can carry a keg in each hand!!