Private schools unfair advantage?

[tnsddeveloper]

Let me quote you dude, " if you have a real, substantive case with real facts - then turn them into the TSSAA to investigate."

I don't have anything to turn in. I'm just saying that the same type of innuendo you are tallking about is also an issue at the publics. But that is a great use of my own words. I like that. As my little brother would have said growing up ... "oooh, in your face!"

 

If a public school take their kids and I take my kids and they out work us and kick my tail on Friday night they deserve to win. Because I know they had to take the kids that came through their front door just like I did.

Again, they didn't just take the kids that came in their front door. Surely you don't really think every kid that attends a public is there because they have to be, right? You might get out worked, but if they are drawing kids from all over ... people transferring in from all over ... then you are really behind the eightball. I'm glad your kids are working hard. Again, publics don't just get kids that walk through the front door. Some have their parents get apartments in a new zone with a mysterious new job in a tight market ... that sure is convenient.

 

Private schools cannot and do not do this. Friendship Christian lets say can go out and get kids that go to Mount Juliet High School (AAAA school), Lebanon (AAAAA school), Wilson Central (AAAAA school), and Galatin (AAAAA school). I believe I could make a very good football team out of kids that could not start for any of those schools and be able to compete very strongly against single A schools.

I don't think you really understand how private schools work. They don't arrive on a public school campus with a handful of cash and a promise of athletic stardom. Private school kids are there because they want or their parents want them to be there. No other reason. Per the rules of D1 privates, no athletes get scholarship money for any reason including academics or hardship. Speaking of my experience at FCS, my wife's at DCA, 2 sister's in law at Ezell, 2 cousins from Columbia Academy, and one from Goodpasture - if you looked at each classes population, you would find that almost 70-80% (if not more) have been attending said school for a vast majority of there academic careers including elementary and kindergarten.

Edited March 18, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[VolunteerGeneral]

 

 

Private schools cannot and do not do this. Friendship Christian lets say can go out and get kids that go to Mount Juliet High School (AAAA school), Lebanon (AAAAA school), Wilson Central (AAAAA school), and Galatin (AAAAA school). I believe I could make a very good football team out of kids that could not start for any of those schools and be able to compete very strongly against single A schools.

 

Private schools also take who comes in the door. They can go out and "GET" anyone. Please explain how they can force anyone to write a $6,000 to $8,000 dollar check.

 

You act like they see Johnny Football play in the next county over and give Johhny`s dad a call and say come on over and Johhny`s dad says "Woohoo!" and hops in his car and drives right over to write that huge check.

 

A private school can`t make anyone go there much less write that check.

 

I know of two folks right now that are cheating by sending their kid to another public school that is not in their zone. Somehow they have falsified their address. But you know what? I don`t really care. I think that kids should have a choice where they want to go. That`s one thing about private schools. All the kida that go there do so by choice. The private school must strive to offer something that is appealing. How else are you gonna convince someone to pay a lot of money when they could send their kid to a public school for free? I wish all public schools would strive to be the best. If public school A wants to have the best band and music program around then that`s awesome. If that attracts kids from other zones or schools then even better.

 

Wouldn`t it be something if the state took over education from all the counties and cities? If the schools were totally run by the state and kids could pick and choose what school they wanted to attend regardless of zone or county you`d have schools making a concerted effort to have areas of excellence to attract students.

[tnsddeveloper]

We are getting no where in our debate tnsddeveloper so you tell me, what is the solution?

 

I know before you say anything that I will agree with some of your points and disagree with others but I will accept your opionion. You have been fun to debate with because you have a deep down belief that you stick with no matter what. I on the other hand also have a deep down belief that I am sticking with no matter what. But I do believe that the only way to work out disagreements is with serious debate.

 

I agree. I accept your opinion too. I do understand that there are probably (and I said probably) privates that are bending the rules. I also understand that probably the same is going on at publics too. I am with you ... I want the problem fixed - for all.

 

I don't think the best answer is a total split. I think it might be the only option on the table though.

 

I think the best option is a merit system. There have been a few discussions here and there on this board with it being very popular with almost everyone.

 

An example of a merit system:

Let's take a school like Trousdale Co. They dominate in 1A. Year in and year out. After a said period of time - say 5 years - win/loss records would be taken into account and the winningest programs in 1A that dominate would move to 2A. The losingest programs in 2A that struggle to compete like a Jackson Co. would move down to 1A.

 

A school like McGavock. VERY large public school that historically performs poorly in football. As part of a merit system, they would start in 5A. Their performance of the said period would allow them to move down to 4A. Then after another said period, maybe to 3A ... until they become competitive and don't lose year in and out anymore. If they start to dominate over the next period, they move back up. It is as simple as that. Some would argue that ... "well, look at the school population". But as you would know working at a small public ... it ain't all about student populations. It also has to do with facilites, bussing, booster club $, etc.

 

This system would allow the cream of the crop to play themselves out of the lower classes and into their own divisions made up of similarly competitive teams. For example, Brentwood Academy would play themselves right into the highest class over time with the Riverdales and Maryvilles and Alcoas of the world. It would make competition better. It would give teams that don't have a chance in their classifications to find a better fit from a competition standpoint and thus benefit all kids.

 

The only real detractors of this plan were the Riverdale's and Trousdale's and South Pitt's of the world. There total dominance would stop, but you would find them competitive and on other levels - like TC was when they were in 3A. They just wouldn't win it all every single year.

 

Thank you for your time this week and good luck with your taxes tomorrow. lol

 

Thanks for the good luck wish. I actually did my first biz taxes meeting yesterday. Hard work giveth and the Tax Man taketh away. Oh well, at least I can come and go as I please.

Edited March 18, 2006 by tnsddeveloper

[ksgovols]

I agree with a merit system plan even though I don't think it would necessarily stop Riverdale's dominance in football. Private schools aren't typically a problem at the 5A football level or even the 4A level. They are more of a nuisance at the 1A, 2A and 3A level. A merit system based on performance on the field that would eliminate enrollment, multipliers and the like make the playing field a level one. The only issue I see is that we're talking about a football scenario primarily. Basketball and baseball or softball would require a completely different merit system.

 

My problem with the BA ruling is that now that the TSSAA has been rendered ineffective, what will happen next? Either the state is going to take over (like TennCare) or the publics will form a public school entity and keep the privates out. Be careful what you wish for.

[tnsddeveloper]

I agree with a merit system plan even though I don't think it would necessarily stop Riverdale's dominance in football. Private schools aren't typically a problem at the 5A football level or even the 4A level. They are more of a nuisance at the 1A, 2A and 3A level. A merit system based on performance on the field that would eliminate enrollment, multipliers and the like make the playing field a level one. The only issue I see is that we're talking about a football scenario primarily. Basketball and baseball or softball would require a completely different merit system.

 

My problem with the BA ruling is that now that the TSSAA has been rendered ineffective, what will happen next? Either the state is going to take over (like TennCare) or the publics will form a public school entity and keep the privates out. Be careful what you wish for.

Actually, I disagree with the private schools having not been the issue within 5A or 4A. The success of Brentwood Academy and the subsequent sanctions are what started all this mess. Riverdale did not fully dominate in 5A when they were part of the mix. I would love to see Maryville, Riverdale, Brentwood Academy, and MUS all in the same league. Now that is good football.

 

I don't think there would be much of a chance that public schools would be able to start a public school entity that kept privates out. Again, if it is ruled to be a "state" run entity, it can't discriminate or punish other state citizens ... and thus, we are back where we started.

 

I don't necesarrily think we will need 2 whole new systems - one for football and one for everything else. We make 3-5 classes for everything and teams fall where they may. Like Hillsboro football might end up in 5A with their girls softball ending up in 2A.

[CPGB06]

 

I am sure that the private schools have great kids. Guess what? So do we.

I am sure that the private schools have great teachers. Guess what? So do we.

I am sure that the private schools strive to educate tomorrow's leaders. Guess what? So do we

 

We all are striving to be the best in whatever we do?

We all are trying to raise our children the best we can?

 

The only disagreement lies in the fact that privates have an unfair advantage and will not admit it.

 

Wait a minute Bill.... you have been saying that the private school gets the best kids to play for them by recruiting. That means that your kids are not as good as the kids at the privates. But then you say that the public and private kids are the same.

 

So which way is it?!?!

Edited March 19, 2006 by CPGB06

[VolunteerGeneral]

I agree with a merit system plan even though I don't think it would necessarily stop Riverdale's dominance in football. Private schools aren't typically a problem at the 5A football level or even the 4A level. They are more of a nuisance at the 1A, 2A and 3A level. A merit system based on performance on the field that would eliminate enrollment, multipliers and the like make the playing field a level one. The only issue I see is that we're talking about a football scenario primarily. Basketball and baseball or softball would require a completely different merit system.

 

My problem with the BA ruling is that now that the TSSAA has been rendered ineffective, what will happen next? Either the state is going to take over (like TennCare) or the publics will form a public school entity and keep the privates out. Be careful what you wish for.

 

The merit based system would put all the very best football programs in the same class with Riverdale (MBA, Maryville, Hillsboro, BA etc...) It may not hinder Riverdale, but then again it was Riverdale that was doing most of the complaining about the Div. II schools. The good thing is that it will bring back a renewed interest in football and truly crown a state champ. Plus it would put all the weaker and smaller rural schools into a class that they would have a legitimate shot at winning a state title.

Edited March 19, 2006 by VolunteerGeneral

[CPGB06]

I do not care much about state high school football, so please factor my comment in that.

 

Why not have just two divisions. One is for all the marbles, and the other is recreational. A team has to proclaim which division they want to play in prior to the season beginning. No schedules are changed. When it comes to playoff time, teams that have proclaimed to be D1 go against everyone for a gold ball in a state wide playoff. For everyone else, it is just a round-robin group of games... no trophy.

 

This way, the only teams that compete are the teams that think they can, and the team that think they cannot compete are not put into a position of humiliation.

 

Sounds like a plan... what do you think Mr. TSSAA?!?!

Edited March 19, 2006 by CPGB06

[Verb58]

I may have read it wrong but will Ronnie Carter now be able to be sued as well as the TSSAA. If so what will this do to "The Director"

Edited March 19, 2006 by wave88

[Bill#49]

I agree. I accept your opinion too. I do understand that there are probably (and I said probably) privates that are bending the rules. I also understand that probably the same is going on at publics too. I am with you ... I want the problem fixed - for all.

 

I don't think the best answer is a total split. I think it might be the only option on the table though.

 

I think the best option is a merit system. There have been a few discussions here and there on this board with it being very popular with almost everyone.

 

An example of a merit system:

Let's take a school like Trousdale Co. They dominate in 1A. Year in and year out. After a said period of time - say 5 years - win/loss records would be taken into account and the winningest programs in 1A that dominate would move to 2A. The losingest programs in 2A that struggle to compete like a Jackson Co. would move down to 1A.

 

A school like McGavock. VERY large public school that historically performs poorly in football. As part of a merit system, they would start in 5A. Their performance of the said period would allow them to move down to 4A. Then after another said period, maybe to 3A ... until they become competitive and don't lose year in and out anymore. If they start to dominate over the next period, they move back up. It is as simple as that. Some would argue that ... "well, look at the school population". But as you would know working at a small public ... it ain't all about student populations. It also has to do with facilites, bussing, booster club $, etc.

 

This system would allow the cream of the crop to play themselves out of the lower classes and into their own divisions made up of similarly competitive teams. For example, Brentwood Academy would play themselves right into the highest class over time with the Riverdales and Maryvilles and Alcoas of the world. It would make competition better. It would give teams that don't have a chance in their classifications to find a better fit from a competition standpoint and thus benefit all kids.

 

The only real detractors of this plan were the Riverdale's and Trousdale's and South Pitt's of the world. There total dominance would stop, but you would find them competitive and on other levels - like TC was when they were in 3A. They just wouldn't win it all every single year.

Thanks for the good luck wish. I actually did my first biz taxes meeting yesterday. Hard work giveth and the Tax Man taketh away. Oh well, at least I can come and go as I please.

 

I like your merit program tnsddeveloper. Put every school back in and do not allow anyone to go up or down just because they want to. Everyone has to go by the system you just described. This would also get the courts off our backs.

 

The courts have ruled. You cannot split any group completely so live with put everyone back together and go with a merit system!!!!!!!! Unless you want to spend another 8 million $$$$$$$$

 

What do you do about the recruiting problem by both the privates and publics? Do you simply do away with any rule regarding recruiting? We have seen examples of both sides not abiding by it. Unless someone turns themselves in, USJ for example, or someone else turns you in, some schools are going to do it.

 

Also, if I remember right Carlton Flatt was meeting with some parents before the kids were accepted by BA. This is what got the whole lawsuit going in the first place. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

 

If TSSAA has to close its doors to pay off BA's lawyers fine but whatever system is created next everyone should have to sign a contract stating they agree with the rules and will not sue the next establishment if they break those rules. All executive governing boards should be made up of half private schools and half public. Both sides should have an equal say in the system. All disagreements should be decided by a system like a court made up of an equal group of privates and publics, as described above. Whatever decision is reached cannot be taken any further.

Edited March 19, 2006 by Bill#49

[Bill#49]

I do not care much about state high school football, so please factor my comment in that.

 

Why not have just two divisions. One is for all the marbles, and the other is recreational. A team has to proclaim which division they want to play in prior to the season beginning. No schedules are changed. When it comes to playoff time, teams that have proclaimed to be D1 go against everyone for a gold ball in a state wide playoff. For everyone else, it is just a round-robin group of games... no trophy.

 

This way, the only teams that compete are the teams that think they can, and the team that think they cannot compete are not put into a position of humiliation.

 

Sounds like a plan... what do you think Mr. TSSAA?!?!

 

Before the current state championship system was created it use to be who would play in a bowl. I think the best one was called the Tobacco Bowl if I am not mistaken.

 

You can still do what you are describing. Let's say you don't want to play a Trousdale County you can refuse to schedule them if they are in your region and not play for a playoff birth. A lot of teams have done this in the past.

[Bill#49]

Wait a minute Bill.... you have been saying that the private school gets the best kids to play for them by recruiting. That means that your kids are not as good as the kids at the privates. No the ones that I have are just as good as any private school kid. The difference is my kids tolded the private "parasites" to kiss their @$$. But then you say that the public and private kids are the same. They are the same, they both have two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears, one nose, etc.

 

So which way is it?!?!