yes or no only

[lazarus]

"Hmmm ... sounds like said Chattanooga magnet may be :gasp: recruiting. "

 

either your reasoning is a little oblique, or there is something missing.

why would a school recruit poor students?

[tnsddeveloper]

"Hmmm ... sounds like said Chattanooga magnet may be :gasp: recruiting. "

 

either your reasoning is a little oblique, or there is something missing.

why would a school recruit poor students?

No one said they were poor ... they said they have to go to junior college for remedial classes.

 

I'm guessing that it is the same Chattanooga magnet that is a bit of a football powerhouse in their region.

[supersteve17]

I know Baldcoach, I was piling on with the sarcasm. I guess my post sounded more like an attack. I was trying to be silly. I haven't read a lot of Steve's post, but I'm sure he presents fair arguments for both sides of this debate.

 

I got your drift Buzzman as it seems you also got mine. I don't know how fair I am but I can see some of this stuff from pretty close associations on both sides of the "argument/discussion." I do try to be fair. Some of it seems just so silly and illogical!

[Gocart]

Not all public schools have to serve every student that walks in the door. The magnet schools have academic entrance requirements (like most private schools) for students that wish to attend.

 

 

Tru dat.

[uncfan13]

No one said they were poor ... they said they have to go to junior college for remedial classes.

 

I'm guessing that it is the same Chattanooga magnet that is a bit of a football powerhouse in their region.

 

Quit dancing around the bush, it's Tyner. We have various magnet schools around Chattanooga. We have Arts and Sciences, Center for Creative Arts, Howard School of Academics and Technology (Aren't all schools supposed to be about academics? And if it's about academics, why's it a failing school?), and Tyner Academy of Football. And if you had Wayne Turner coaching at a public school in your area, you would have a number of large fast athletes who would want to attend that school. By the way, Wayne's the only public school coach who will schedule McCallie every year. He believes in that silly concept about seeking out the best competition to make his team better. How ridiculous! As far as graduates having to go to junior colleges because they can't crack 15 on their ACT's, don't be silly. John Ward never screamed, "It's academic time in Tennessee!"

Edited September 8, 2006 by uncfan13

[tnsddeveloper]

Quit dancing around the bush, it's Tyner. We have various magnet schools around Chattanooga. We have Arts and Sciences, Center for Creative Arts, Howard School of Academics and Technology (Aren't all schools supposed to be about academics? And if it's about academics, why's it a failing school?), and Tyner Academy of Football. And if you had Wayne Turner coaching at a public school in your area, you would have a number of large fast athletes who would want to attend that school. By the way, Wayne's the only public school coach who will schedule McCallie every year. He believes in that silly concept about seeking out the best competition to make his team better. How ridiculous! As far as graduates having to go to junior colleges because they can't crack 15 on their ACT's, don't be silly. John Ward never screamed, "It's academic time in Tennessee!"

Dude, you're missing the point. There is an entrance exam that must be taken and that determines the pecking order of who gets in. Somehow, kids that end up taking remedials in college are getting to the top of that list. Hmmmm, I wonder how.

[big red big blue]

Both of you make some good points-- i've got a couple of side bar observations that I think might be helpful. First, as to the question of whether the split was "about state championships in football at the highest level", I think its pertinent that, based on evidence introduced and not contradicted in the BA-TSSAA court case, the organizer of move for the split within the Board of Control was Riverdale's principal and that his efforts began right after Riverdale, having won its 1st ever state title with one of the best teams ever in Tennessee in 1994, lost the '95 Clinic Bowl to a BA team that had a couple of kids on it who lived in Murfreesboro--one of whom, Mikki Allen, later of UT, was a big star. Uncontradicted evidence in the court case was that he was heard to say late in that game "I'm sick and tired of these people taking OUR KIDS (emphasis mine) and beating us with them" BA won again in '96 with probably their best ever team and the split into DI and DII followed shortly thereafter. Was it just about 5A football state titles--- I'd agree that the answer is "No"-- and would also agree with Big Red Big Blue that BA created a lot of ill will by staying in lower classes for so long and overwhelming people (although they lost a bunch of Clinic Bowls too) for so long---- with 20-20 hindsight, it would have been better if they'd applied the "de Facto" multiplier that BRBB describes and played up to a higher class like MBA, Ryan, Baylor and the a number of other schools did. So--- just about 5A football? no-- but I think the evidence supports the view that 5A football was the "preciptating" or immediate cause, lack of a better term.---- An additional effect that I've observed of this football driven arrangement we now live with is that the quality of the kids' experience in all other sports is worse because of the split. I think the football experience is worse as well, but we can leave that out for now. But its hard to argue that track and cross country, for example weren't better when everybody competed for state titles at great big, exciting meets-- somethings gone out of them now-- diluted, not as strong. I don't know if there's a relationship present, but it is true that if you look at at least Nashville area track & field records today, the record in most events is 10 or more years old-- ie, from the pre split era-- reduce competition and performance degrades. But , of course, now more people get to say they're "state champions" so those All American goals of boosting kids' self esteem (whether warranted or not) and adults' bragging rights and egos are served well. I think its kind of sad, really. And, a fianl observation, I don't think any team in Tennessee hostory , ever, has put together a 6 or 7 year run as dominant as Maryville in recent years--- but if you look at their football web site, they look like a prety normal bunch of kids-- the sort you'd see at any school-- a couple of college prospects every year, but nobody who's likely to be an AllAmerican or anything, and no more than you could find, I'd bet, at 15 or 20 TN high schools most years--- so what's different---I'd suggest coaching, hard work, and a tradition that drives kids to set high standards for themselves--- sort of like the Marines. I'd offer a thought that those sort of factors have a lot more to do with the success enjoyed by schools like BA, MBA, MUS, McCallie etc than overwhelming talent. Out of all those great BA teams, I can only think of 2 guys who wound up getting any playing time in the NFL, Kent Austin and Bubba Miller. THe foundation of success at the HS level is to get regualr kids to give you their very best. Great coaches do that. Another example-- Hillsboro was terrible for years until Ron Aydelotte came. Did the student body change radically at the same time? I don't think so-- but what they were persuaded to do, the effort and commitment that they were persuaded to give, changed a bunch. Sorry for the long post.

 

many good points here as well. Honestly, I think the events you've described suggest that much of the DII decision really was about emotion and not reason. I mentioned this on an earlier thread: Riverdale, with that monster '94 team, beat Baylor 49-0. The next year, they lose to BA with an added "salt the wounds factor" in that Mikki Allen played for BA. In '93, they beat McCallie 21-20; in '96 Baylor 50-14. So why did all these problems they had with financial aid schools manifest themselves in only '95? In fact, I looked back at RRR's database: Riverdale was 12-4 against current members of DII (specifically--MBA, FRHS, Baylor, McCallie, and BA) when it was established. So why the immediate concern in '95-'96 about financial aid granting schools? I still contend that it was an emotional reaction to BA, a place that wasn't exactly a sympathetic figure at the time. The evidence just isn't there that the schools that were sent to DII were in any sort of "dominant" role prior to 1996.

 

WRT Adeyllot/Hillsboro/Maryville, etc., I couldn't agree more. I wrote a post somewhere on here describing what I thought was "the culture of winning" places like Maryville, Riverdale, BA, MBA, MUS, etc. enjoy. It's the real geniuses of coaching like Adeyllot and Marurice Fitzgerald, imo, who create a culture of winning from the ground up--without tradition, community support, $$, etc.

[Indian]

McCallie and especially Baylor weren't nearly as strong 10-15 years ago as they are now. Sequatchie, a good but not state championship level 2A team, beat McCallie in 89 and 93 (the year they lost to Riverdale by 1, Riverdale was still building), lost by around 10 in 2 different years (one year had a .500 record and still played them to 10 or so). Baylor made it to the 3rd round I think one time in those years. Baylor had a running back walk on at MS State, a lineman walk on at TN in those years, very few if any 1-AA signees. McCallie had a lineman play I believe at TN Tech around 91, then had Settles-now the coach at David Brainerd-sign with Duke around 93 and I don't remember any other signees from there for several years after that.

[silverpie]

Baylor has always sought to have a balanced program, being good at all its sports instead of concentrating on one or two.

[MHubbuch]

Sure the multiplier has helped the Public Schools. The Teachers really in most cases do not care if a kid passes or not. They are there to get a paycheck. I have heard from time to time many coaches say that If parents in the Public schools were as involoved with their kids like they are in the private schools we would not be talking about this issue.