Rule Question

[daman_daman]

I have a question. I have looked in the rule book and do not see a definitive answer. This is a simple problem but hit us twice in a game.

 

2nd down and 10. QB in the pocket flushed back a bit and is tackled by his facemask for a 10 yard loss.

 

penalty flag insues... personal foul face mask 15 yd penalty from the end of the run.

 

Its now 3rd and 5.

 

we had a dead ball personal foul later in the same situation. 1st and 10 qb tackled for a 10 yard loss and a dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct for a late hit made it 2nd and 5.

 

That seems a little strange. it should at least be from the previous spot or something, and not a loss of down for us. just couldn't get a definitive answer from the rule book

[Idunk2]

Your facemask play should have been 2nd down and 5 (as the infraction occured during the play).

 

Your UC penalty was administered correctly as it was a "dead ball" hence the play was already over.

[Old Redskin]

I have a question. I have looked in the rule book and do not see a definitive answer. This is a simple problem but hit us twice in a game.

 

2nd down and 10. QB in the pocket flushed back a bit and is tackled by his facemask for a 10 yard loss.

 

penalty flag insues... personal foul face mask 15 yd penalty from the end of the run.

 

Its now 3rd and 5.

 

we had a dead ball personal foul later in the same situation. 1st and 10 qb tackled for a 10 yard loss and a dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct for a late hit made it 2nd and 5.

 

That seems a little strange. it should at least be from the previous spot or something, and not a loss of down for us. just couldn't get a definitive answer from the rule book

 

Both should have been automatic first downs. Penalty marked off from the end of the run.

[Idunk2]

Both should have been automatic first downs. Penalty marked off from the end of the run.

 

 

There are only five automatic first downs in high school football. They are as follows

 

1. Roughing the passer

2. Roughing the snapper (scrimmage kick situation)

3. Roughing the holder (For attempted field goals or PAT's)

4. Roughing the kicker

5. Defenisve pass interference

 

None of the scenarios mentioned by daman_daman are automatic first downs.

[02wildcat.]

I have a question. I have looked in the rule book and do not see a definitive answer. This is a simple problem but hit us twice in a game.

 

2nd down and 10. QB in the pocket flushed back a bit and is tackled by his facemask for a 10 yard loss.

 

penalty flag insues... personal foul face mask 15 yd penalty from the end of the run.

 

Its now 3rd and 5.

 

we had a dead ball personal foul later in the same situation. 1st and 10 qb tackled for a 10 yard loss and a dead ball unsportsmanlike conduct for a late hit made it 2nd and 5.

 

That seems a little strange. it should at least be from the previous spot or something, and not a loss of down for us. just couldn't get a definitive answer from the rule book

 

 

Why do you say you lost a down? They just assessed the penalty like is always done. If he had run forward 20 yards and been tackled by his facemask, you wouldn't assess the penalty from the previous spot, why would you do it in this case?

[bigwes68]

Why do you say you lost a down? They just assessed the penalty like is always done. If he had run forward 20 yards and been tackled by his facemask, you wouldn't assess the penalty from the previous spot, why would you do it in this case?

 

Read the play again. On the facemask play, it was 2nd and 10. After the play and the penalty, it was 3rd and 5. The down should have been repeated. He wasn't complaining about the yardage enforcement, which was done correctly.

 

On the dead ball foul, it happened after the down was over, therefore the down counts. This sounds like it was enforced correctly. If that had been a fourth down play and the line-to-gain was not reached, the ball would have still gone over, 15 yard penalty against B enforced AFTER the change of possession but BEFORE the chains are set, then B's ball 1st and 10 from wherever the enforcement would have left them.

 

All of these answers are in the rule book, you just have to know where to look. Might I suggest Rule 10 - Enforcement of Penalties?

Edited October 5, 2006 by bigwes68

[Rangerbook06]

There are only five automatic first downs in high school football. They are as follows

 

1. Roughing the passer

2. Roughing the snapper (scrimmage kick situation)

3. Roughing the holder (For attempted field goals or PAT's)

4. Roughing the kicker

5. Defenisve pass interference

 

None of the scenarios mentioned by daman_daman are automatic first downs.

I thought every "personal foul" was an automatic first down?

[VolunteerGeneral]

I thought every "personal foul" was an automatic first down?

 

I did too.

[justanobserver]

Volunteer[/url]General' post='826172825' date='Oct 4 2006 - 08:21 PM']

I did too.

Nope... only the roughing penalties and pass interference. Usually, the distance from a personal foul penalty will result in a 1st down, but not automatically.

[PTSportsWriter]

Volunteer[/url]General' post='826172825' date='Oct 4 2006 - 09:21 PM']

I did too.

 

Not in HS ball.

 

15 yard flag. No first down unless the 15 is beyond the line to gain.

[o21putt]

Isn't it amazing what one can learn upon reading the rule book.

[bigwes68]

Not in HS ball.

 

15 yard flag. No first down unless the 15 is beyond the line to gain.

 

Right. Some of those personal fouls may be automatic 1st downs under college or NFL rules, but not high school.