Postseason Split

[PBandJ]

I'm not talking about a complete split. In fact, I am saying put them all back together for the regular season and split only for the playoffs. If it hasn't occurred to anyone, less than half the teams make the playoffs and 50% that do are out after game one. Therefore, for all intents and purposed, we would be right back to where we were before DII was formed, for most teams.

 

I do believe a few publics will continue to schedule privates but I do think that once the forced region ties (in football) are no longer there, we will see a huge drop off in publics that play privates. At that point, most privates will be playing primarily private only regular season and post season games - and I think they will realize quickly that they should move on and start their own organization.

 

Has there been a discussion about TN privates and KY privates banding together and creating a 2 state private league? Perhaps they could play "interleague" games with championships being decided with a regional flavor. I know the KY private schools are also going through quite a bit of "rules" adjustments.

[Bighurt]

In the case of the private schools, it gives them someone different to play in the regular season and playoffs without nearly as much travel during the regular season.

 

I agree that D2 schools will benefit but I don't see that current D1 private schools will travel any less. Also, sports other than football need to be considered.

 

IMHO. I don't think that there will be a big change in private and public schools playing during the regular season. I think there is some fault on both sides for that situation.

 

Also, robjim did not like my new avatar. So, I removed it. Wait until I download the Power "T" and see what he thinks.

[lazarus]

obviously i cannot speak for everyone,

but i like to play private schools.

 

the old playoff setup was clearly unbalanced,

(i will wait to judge the multiplier system until there is more data).

but for regular season games, good opponents are more desireable than weak opponents.

 

of course humans typically make more decisions on emotion than on logic.

a coach who has invested in developing a special talent

only to find that player in another team's (especially an opponent) uniform come high school,

may respond by refusing to schedule that team (and that could be public as easily as private)

a coach who has taken a "once in a decade" or "once in a century" team to playoffs

only to get beat down by a private team that makes it look like he carried a team of 12's to a 14 yr old tournament might carry a grudge for a while...

 

but there are publics that wont play other publics over petty (or non-petty) grievances from the past.

i think privates would find themselves to be desirable enough as opponents to keep a full dance card.

[BackinTN]

Ok, I dont know if it is officially CoachT's idea or not, but it has some very interesting aspects. What does everyone think of a publics and privates playing during the regular season, but not playing in the playoffs?

One question I have is how does the public-private regular season records affect post season standings? If a school is beaten by a team from the opposite league, does that affect their seeding? If so, wouldnt there be some teams that would find it very difficult to schedule games outside of their own league?

And please...stay on topic.

[PBandJ]

Ok, I dont know if it is officially CoachT's idea or not, but it has some very interesting aspects. What does everyone think of a publics and privates playing during the regular season, but not playing in the playoffs?

One question I have is how does the public-private regular season records affect post season standings? If a school is beaten by a team from the opposite league, does that affect their seeding? If so, wouldnt there be some teams that would find it very difficult to schedule games outside of their own league?

And please...stay on topic.

 

IMHO I think once forced region ties are severed, there will be very few public private games scheduled. We will see the likes of a CPA vs. Riverdale, Goodpasture vs. Ravenwood - but that will be about it.

 

I think the best option for all is to come up with a Merit System. All teams play into the appropriate classification.

[BackinTN]

IMHO I think once forced region ties are severed, there will be very few public private games scheduled. We will see the likes of a CPA vs. Riverdale, Goodpasture vs. Ravenwood - but that will be about it.

 

I think the best option for all is to come up with a Merit System. All teams play into the appropriate classification.

 

 

But wouldnt a merit system create somewhat of the same situation? I know there will always be some teams avoiding others, but will it hurt or help? On the other hand, it there is a stength of schedule factor, then schools should be trying to schedule tough and higher ranked teams. With a merit system, who oversees and administrates?

[CoachT]

IMHO I think once forced region ties are severed, there will be very few public private games scheduled. We will see the likes of a CPA vs. Riverdale, Goodpasture vs. Ravenwood - but that will be about it.

 

I think the best option for all is to come up with a Merit System. All teams play into the appropriate classification.

 

No way to know for sure until it happens but I think public and private schools will play each other. There was never a problem before the playoffs/regions began and if schools have corresponding open dates then I don't foresee a problem.

 

A merit system which leaves the playoffs as they are, public vs private, will be no more effective than the multiplier is proving to be.

[PBandJ]

No way to know for sure until it happens but I think public and private schools will play each other. There was never a problem before the playoffs/regions began and if schools have corresponding open dates then I don't foresee a problem.

 

A merit system which leaves the playoffs as they are, public vs private, will be no more effective than the multiplier is proving to be.

 

You are absolutely correct that there is no way to know for sure. But imagine all the forced games that there are now in region play. I don't think we will even hit half that number in terms of rescheduling. Look at a Jo Byrns. They had a somewhat long history with several of the ABC privates. Once that region tie was broken, they surely didn't schedule them again. Not calling Jo Byrns out, they just jumped out as a school that was paired with privates previously in a region.

 

I disagree with the merit system too. The merit system doesn't stop with a 1 class move. A BA would continue to rise until they were in the top classification. A Goodpasture and Alcoa would continue to rise until they landed appropriately - 4A or 5A. There isn't a "governor" such as the 1 class only rule that stops the reclassing as there is with the multiplier.

[BackinTN]

You are absolutely correct that there is no way to know for sure. But imagine all the forced games that there are now in region play. I don't think we will even hit half that number in terms of rescheduling. Look at a Jo Byrns. They had a somewhat long history with several of the ABC privates. Once that region tie was broken, they surely didn't schedule them again. Not calling Jo Byrns out, they just jumped out as a school that was paired with privates previously in a region.

 

I disagree with the merit system too. The merit system doesn't stop with a 1 class move. A BA would continue to rise until they were in the top classification. A Goodpasture and Alcoa would continue to rise until they landed appropriately - 4A or 5A. There isn't a "governor" such as the 1 class only rule that stops the reclassing as there is with the multiplier.

 

 

I am inclined to agree with you about the merit system. I also believe that it would be too easily manipulated unless administrated by a third party that has no direct associations with anyone involved...but is that even possible? I doubt it.

Do you think there are too many differing classifications or are there not enough? My personal belief is that there are too many. If there were some kind of post season split, I think three public and two private classifications would be the absolute maximum. I honestly believe that is still too many, but could live with it. Five state champions are more than enough to spread the bragging rights around.

[big red big blue]

I think, ideally, there would be something slightly less than a pure merit system and more an "eyeball" test, utilizing 4 different classifications.

 

The lowest class (A) would be for all small public schools. No privates would be eligible for this classification unless they were accepted by the membership...As in, certain privates that aren't out to create world class athletics programs share more in common with small publics than they do most small privates, and most small publics recognize that and would probably accept them.

 

The largest class (AAAA) would be for all financial aid-granting privates and all large county schools, with enrollments of 1500 or more. Meaning all current members of D2-AAA would be playing with an implied mutiplier against the big suburban county schools.

 

The remaining two classes would be somewhat subjective. Most small privates would be grouped in the AA class, again with an implied multiplier, and other metro-type schools would be in class AAA, and not playing against the big county schools. Certain exceptions would have to be made for large metro schools like McGavock which clearly, despite their size, cannot compete with the large county schools.

 

Now, if after 10 years of this, we had results like those of KY, where privates basically win every state title every year, then we would need a full post-season split.

 

But, to answer the original question, I would be satisfied with a full split provided the publics actually did their part and scheduled local privates in non-post-season-impacting regular season games. Since they will not do so willingly, a full split would require some leadership on the part of the TSSAA, namely in the creation of combined regions that split apart for the post-season.

[BackinTN]

I think, ideally, there would be something slightly less than a pure merit system and more an "eyeball" test, utilizing 4 different classifications.

 

The lowest class (A) would be for all small public schools. No privates would be eligible for this classification unless they were accepted by the membership...As in, certain privates that aren't out to create world class athletics programs share more in common with small publics than they do most small privates, and most small publics recognize that and would probably accept them.

 

The largest class (AAAA) would be for all financial aid-granting privates and all large county schools, with enrollments of 1500 or more. Meaning all current members of D2-AAA would be playing with an implied mutiplier against the big suburban county schools.

 

The remaining two classes would be somewhat subjective. Most small privates would be grouped in the AA class, again with an implied multiplier, and other metro-type schools would be in class AAA, and not playing against the big county schools. Certain exceptions would have to be made for large metro schools like McGavock which clearly, despite their size, cannot compete with the large county schools.

 

Now, if after 10 years of this, we had results like those of KY, where privates basically win every state title every year, then we would need a full post-season split.

 

But, to answer the original question, I would be satisfied with a full split provided the publics actually did their part and scheduled local privates in non-post-season-impacting regular season games. Since they will not do so willingly, a full split would require some leadership on the part of the TSSAA, namely in the creation of combined regions that split apart for the post-season.

 

 

I think a split is about the only way to go. Does anyone know the numbers on the privates? How many are there in the state? I know travel will always be an issue, but are there enough schools to play a full schedule at a reasonably evenly matched level?

[Bighurt]

I think a split is about the only way to go. Does anyone know the numbers on the privates? How many are there in the state? I know travel will always be an issue, but are there enough schools to play a full schedule at a reasonably evenly matched level?

 

According to tssaa.org, 31 private schools in D1 with 25 playing football. 39 schools in D2 with 29 playing football.