umps?

[Rt-21CBTrap]

QUOTE(rufus22 @ Apr 11 2007 - 11:05 PM) 826435561[/snapback]AMEN BROTHER PREACH IT, lol. I have done some little league games and I have to agree that the coaches and fans are far worse in these games than any coach or fan in high school. I was doing some games over in Loudon about a month ago and i was doing the coach pitch games. Just to let you know, people call these leagues the "pirahna" leagues, mostly because the coaches and fans will eat you alive, lol. Now these kids were 5 years old, and the sad part was these were travel teams and I'm not just talking about from across Tennessee either, there were teams there from Alabama, Florida, and Kentucky. Does anyone else see whats wrong with this picture? I mean shouldntt 5 year olds be worried with being a 5 year old, instead of being drug around the country to play in a coach pitch tournament? But as I was saying, these coaches and fans act like little Johnny will be playing for the Yankees next week and if you mess up a call then you are doing a major injustice to their kids. Now for any of you out there that havent umped a coach pitch game I will let you know right now, its probably one of the hardest games you will ump because of a few reasons. 1) You are the only ump there and are alone on all calls with no back up 2) Coach pitch has many "special" rules that are so different from the regular rules that if you are a regular high school ump then you will feel like you are in a foreign land 3) The coaches will argue that the sky is green if they get the notion 4) The coaches are just parents that have a kid on the team and maybe they played a little ball "back in the day" and only 1 in 10 actually know the basic rules and they think they know everything there is to know.

 

Now I'm all for competition and all but some of these kids didnt barely know what was going on, now there were some that knew things about the game that the normal 18 year old wouldnt know about the game, but the vast majority just wanted to have fun and didnt really care who won. I even had one little boy walk by me after the game and asked me if his team won or not cause he truthfully had no clue and he really didnt care. But in my opinion these coaches are taking all the fun out of one of the greatest sports around. Just let the kids play.

 

But i have strayed away from my original point that Umping in any level is hard, strenuous job that gets little respect from the self proclaimed baseball geniuses that are just players and fans who dont like the so called bad calls that they always seem to get. Now sometimes yes Umps make bad calls, its almost inevitable because noone is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, but maybe the reason your team is losing isn't because the umps are making bad calls, maybe just maybe its because your team isn't that good or they had a bad day that particular game. So lay off the umps cause for one they are underpaid for the job they do and for the crap they put up with on a game to game basis. And as some of the people have already stated "if you havent ever gotten behind the plate and umped then SHUT UP".

 

 

Haha gotta love that coach pitch. I would like to one day be certified to do at least middle and maybe high school baseball but till then im stuck in the minors haha. I'll have to agree with you that its tougher than it looks and really, its not like umpires dont have better things to do. I did a tournament last friday from 1 till 8 and at the end of it I was DEAD. The next two days it was fun to see just how far i could walk without complainin about somethin hurtin, of course part of it was my fault for wearin huntin boots but hey, I didnt have any tennis shoes around. Point is there was a million other things I couldve been doing on a Friday that I was off from college but I spent that day watchin about 150 seven and eight year olds run around for seven hours. When i first started doin it i can remember callin three games in a night and gettin paid $30 for that night. I couldve made twice as much in half the time doin somethin else if I wanted to. Umpires aint in it to get rich by any means but hey, it is nice of em to give ya hot dog though. Some places have even got me free water.

[riverdaleman]

when i started umpiring we made 12 for coach pitch and 14 for kid pitch LOL...

[ksgovols]

Gotta laugh about the coach pitch games. You never know where the ball is going, when the runner will stop or if they'll catch the ball when it gets there! The high school kids will almost call it for you. If it's close on the 3rd strike and they're looking curveball and get a fast ball, they'll at least start back to the dugout. Same for the close plays on the bases. You'll see the first baseman throwing it around before the umpire ever makes the out call.

 

As an umpire, I find myself watching the guys in blue as much as the game to see if they got their rotations right and what kind of zone they have. Then if there is a play that the average fan doesn't know, the ones that know me will ask my opinion before they get on the umpire because.........they don't know! The hands are part of the bat you know. No.....they're connected to your arms. If you swing it doesn't have to hit your hands. It can hit you anywhere and it's still a strike! Try watching all the touches on a line drive to the outfield when your partner goes out to see if there's a catch. It takes more than your one set of eyes I'll tell you AND you've got to cover whichever base the cutoff man decides to throw to. That one play is worth more than $40!

[CUBCADET]

QUOTE(ksgovols @ Apr 12 2007 - 12:05 AM) 826435591[/snapback]Gotta laugh about the coach pitch games. You never know where the ball is going, when the runner will stop or if they'll catch the ball when it gets there! The high school kids will almost call it for you. If it's close on the 3rd strike and they're looking curveball and get a fast ball, they'll at least start back to the dugout. Same for the close plays on the bases. You'll see the first baseman throwing it around before the umpire ever makes the out call.

 

As an umpire, I find myself watching the guys in blue as much as the game to see if they got their rotations right and what kind of zone they have. Then if there is a play that the average fan doesn't know, the ones that know me will ask my opinion before they get on the umpire because.........they don't know! The hands are part of the bat you know. No.....they're connected to your arms. If you swing it doesn't have to hit your hands. It can hit you anywhere and it's still a strike! Try watching all the touches on a line drive to the outfield when your partner goes out to see if there's a catch. It takes more than your one set of eyes I'll tell you AND you've got to cover whichever base the cutoff man decides to throw to. That one play is worth more than $40!

 

Absolutely correct ksgovols...If the fans only really knew what goes on and what the umps really have responsibility for they MIGHT have a little better attitude. I think it is quite hilarious to sit in the stands and listen to the "experts" quote book chapter, and verse from the rule book...I have no idea which book those rules came from but it is not from one that I ever read!!! How many nights have you sat up very late, just going over the same old rulebook to make sure you have all the little things about the rules correct? I lose a lot of sleep going over calls that my crew made that night or a call I heard one of the other crews had, just to make sure we get it right the next time, dont you? I have always said that the worse thing you can give a parent with no idea about the rules of the game is a book that 1. they wont read...2 they will never, never understand...3. will never realize that almost all rules are open to interpretation...Most good umps will get together and get it right in most cases...at least I hope they do. As for t-ball and coach pitch, I have heard it said that they are basically "ORGANIZED MADNESS AT A VERY HIGH VOLUME!!! Just let the little guys have fun!! Have a good season!!

[lvjacket15]

I would have to say that all the umps aren't bad. Actually, some of them have been pretty good, but when they're bad they're bad. Like our games against CSAS, I think both teams would agree that the umpiring was awful in those games. TSSAA even addressed the home plate umpire from the second game.

[BigFly]

QUOTE(catsbackr @ Apr 11 2007 - 08:30 PM) 826435309[/snapback]Get serious. To make a statement such as, "...the rulebook defines the strike zone..." is rediculous.

 

NFHS defines the strikezone as, "...that space over the plate, the top of which is halfway between the batter's shoulders and the waistline, and the bottom being the knees when he assumes his natural stance." I read that as the letters to the knees. How do you read it? I guess you want us to call letter high fastballs from a pitcher throwing in the mid '80's strikes, huh. There's going to be a lotta no hitters I bet.

 

All umpires are not the same height and therefore do not have the same head height when calling balls and strikes. That would be almost impossible. However, each plate umpire is the same height the whole game and as long as we call a consistent zone for both teams the whole game, what can be fairer?

 

Regarding your comment about "..Blue gets closer to his $40 and a free hotdog..", strap on some equipment, take your turn behind the plate and then criticize. Until then, shut up.

 

And lastly, 4 inches off the plate still catches the black with a regulation baseball.

 

First of all, what does the height of the umpire have to do with the strikezone? It should be based on the batter. Second, The fairest thing to do would be to attempt to call the strikezone as defined in the rules. Finally, when I say 4 inches off the plate, I am talking about the inside part of the ball being 4 inches off the black.

 

Now that I seem to have some umpires attention, I have some questions:

Do you actually try to determine if a pitch was over the plate and between the knees and letters for a strike to be called? If not, what method do you use and why?

 

Would it be that hard to try to call the strike zone as defined in the rule book?

 

Do you have your own unwritten rules such as "catcher drops ball no strike" or "batter leaves box early on obvious ball is a strike"?

 

How long have you been umpiring, and are the complaints getting worse?

 

I am not saying that umpiring is easy, and I do not expect absolute perfection. I know you get blasted by many people that have no clue what they are talking about, wear hot equipment and get beat to death by foul balls. $40 is not enough for me to seek that out and give up my time. I just expect those who accept the job to know the rules, apply them consistently and hustle to the correct positions. I know you can't be on top of every play with only 2 umpires. However, I think you have brought alot of the grief on yourselves with the variable strike zone. You should be able to tell on a fairly consistent basis if a pitch crosses the plate or not, but you are asking to be blasted when the standard is close enough. What would a basketball game be if the refs could rule that the ball rattled around the rim long enough, the basket counts.

[redeyedmd]

Yes I have yelled at "blue" on more than one occasion, in one game I may add. I have to agree with KGOVOLS he was dead on. I have thought about umping but back surgery won't allow it then I thought I could do the coach pitch but thanks to this forum thats out! Those little guys parents would eat me alive. Having a pitcher for a son I do get critical about the strike zone but at long as its consintent for both teams let em play and hope you enjoy the "dog" after the game.

[riverdaleman]

I have seen a lot of comments about a strike zone and the "book" zone needing to be called more...do me a favor ...go talk to a coach and ask them if they want a text book strike zone or a little off the plate...umpires get in less trouble calling strikes if it is called to the "book" we would hear WHY DONT WE JUST PUT IT ON A TEE FOR HIM" all night long!!!!you have to give a little off the plate we are dealing with HIGH SCHOOL pitchers not MLB umpires get paid for STRIKES and OUTS as long as the zone is both ways no coach will complain they may not like a pitch or 2 but if we call over 300 pitches and miss 1 or 2 that isnt too bad is it? when in doubt i DO NOT CALL HIM OUT i always call it like i see it you stay out of trouble that way...

1 more thing about the strike zone..my 15 year old is a pitcher and i tell him if you have the umpire in the habit of calling strikes and you hit your spots you will get the borderline call if you are thrwoing everywhere and not even close toyour spot and you have the umpire guessing you will not get the close pitch but the batters also know this guy is throwing strikes so you better be swinging...but i can gaurantee you that a coach wants a guy who is going to call strikes as opposedto the one with a tight zone

[ksgovols]

BigFly. The perception of the strike zone has as much to do with the angle of view. I was taught to be aggressive 'in the slot' which is putting your head to the left side of the catcher's head on a right handed batter. That's a great view of the inside part of the plate to the middle of the plate. A big curve ball that bites the front black of the plate as it goes outside and in the dirt by the time it's to the rear of the plate is a strike, but I guarantee the crowd will howl when you call it. Same for the inside curve ball that catches the rear black of the plate while the batter is jumping out of the box. Then you have catcher's framing the pitch out of the strike zone and when his mitt doesn't move, the coach wants a strike. Most catcher's are taught to bring balls out of the zone towards the zone as they're catching it. That's a tough call for balls around the plate. Personally I don't care if the catcher catches the ball or not, but that's from the youth league experience.

 

Get back there and try it. Every umpire will admit that he has trouble 'seeing the ball' or with his zone from time to time. Sometimes you'll lose it in the middle of the game. A good catcher that gives you a clear view and keeps the ball off you helps. A pitcher that can keep it around the plate helps even more.

 

I agree with Cubcadet. I call one of my umpire buddies every time there's an unusual call and we talk about every umpire's zone and game management or how they handle certain coaches.

[1moreDBmom]

QUOTE(riverdaleman @ Apr 12 2007 - 11:16 AM) 826435786[/snapback]I have seen a lot of comments about a strike zone and the "book" zone needing to be called more...do me a favor ...go talk to a coach and ask them if they want a text book strike zone or a little off the plate...umpires get in less trouble calling strikes if it is called to the "book" we would hear WHY DONT WE JUST PUT IT ON A TEE FOR HIM" all night long!!!!you have to give a little off the plate we are dealing with HIGH SCHOOL pitchers not MLB umpires get paid for STRIKES and OUTS as long as the zone is both ways no coach will complain they may not like a pitch or 2 but if we call over 300 pitches and miss 1 or 2 that isnt too bad is it? when in doubt i DO NOT CALL HIM OUT i always call it like i see it you stay out of trouble that way...

1 more thing about the strike zone..my 15 year old is a pitcher and i tell him if you have the umpire in the habit of calling strikes and you hit your spots you will get the borderline call if you are thrwoing everywhere and not even close toyour spot and you have the umpire guessing you will not get the close pitch but the batters also know this guy is throwing strikes so you better be swinging...but i can gaurantee you that a coach wants a guy who is going to call strikes as opposedto the one with a tight zone

 

 

 

I agree Riverdaleman!

 

A consistantly called strike zone that is just a a bit wider then what you expect in MLB will keep both teams (parents and coaches) from hollering and screaming at the BLUE

 

Consistantly wrong is better then a moving strike zone anyday!

 

A good consistant plate umpire will hear very little flack from the crowds and benches.

 

Something I notice that happens a lot is the umpires that tend to call the balls and strikes out in front of the plate... that is they make their mind up what it's going to be before it breaks. If those umpires could just learn to wait until the ball hits the glove before they make that call I think they would do better with the breaking stuff. And those are the same umpires that have a moving teacup...probably because as the game progresses they realize they have missed those calls and so they start adjusting the strike zone to what they think is going to happen with certain pitches...then the ball doesn't break as much and they are still missing the calls only in the other direction.

 

So slow down a little Blue and see it all the way into the mitt.

[wad]

Remember one thing. That umpire has other responsibilities. He also does not have a clue what pitch is about to be thrown. Sometimes the catcher jumps up in he way blocking his view. Also should a high school catcher be able to catch a ball in the strike zone when the batter does not swing? I think so. Its easy to sit in the stands and second guess coaches and umpires, because your rear is not on the line. Umpiring is no different then what all of you complainers do for a living. Except your expected to be perfect at the start and get better as the game goes on. This is also a game that as a player if you are successful 35% of the time you make the hall of fame.

[catsbackr]

Boy, umpiring sure must be easy. I have a AAA game tonight and I'll think I'll ask both coaches if it's okay if I call ball and strikes from the stands. Obviously, you get a better view from there.

 

But seriously, none of us step onto the field wanting to do a bad job. Sometimes you just lose it. You know you're not calling the best game and you do absolutely everything you can to get back in the "zone."

 

Do you ever have a bad day at work? Are people standing beside you and criticizing the fact that your having a bad day? Do half of the people love the fact that your having a bad day at work and the other half hate it? Are you running out of people that want to do your job due to lousy pay, lousy hours and harassment on the job? If not, you cannot come close to appreciating what it takes to umpire.

 

Ask yourselves this, why doesn't baseball just do like golf and have the participants govern themselves? Really, ask yourself this and think about the answer and you'll understand why umpires are needed.