Age to throw curveball

[DWADE]

In my opinion, kids could start throwing a curveball when they are around 12 or 13. I only say that because there are ways to grip and throw curveballs that do not hurt the arm, but have the same effect. I remember when Craig Lowrance was in little league, he had a nasty 12-6 curve! He didn't throw the usual duce with the normal grip and twist of the wrist. I wish I could illistrate how to throw the pitch, but Im sure some of you might know what I am talking about. As far as learning pitches such as a cutter or a change up, I totally agree with that. I believe a curve is a great pitch to have in the arsenal, but I think that fastball-change up is the best 1-2 pitches and pitcher can have

[riverdaleman]

QUOTE(DWADE @ Jun 1 2007 - 10:07 AM) 826470045[/snapback]In my opinion, kids could start throwing a curveball when they are around 12 or 13. I only say that because there are ways to grip and throw curveballs that do not hurt the arm, but have the same effect. I remember when Craig Lowrance was in little league, he had a nasty 12-6 curve! He didn't throw the usual duce with the normal grip and twist of the wrist. I wish I could illistrate how to throw the pitch, but Im sure some of you might know what I am talking about. As far as learning pitches such as a cutter or a change up, I totally agree with that. I believe a curve is a great pitch to have in the arsenal, but I think that fastball-change up is the best 1-2 pitches and pitcher can have

 

If i had a dollar for evertime i have had a coach tell me that i would be a rich man meanwhile a few years down the road the kid blows out his arm ...they are 12 -13 they are not going to CONSISTANTLY throw it the way you taught i am not sure how much i believe in the "right" way to throw to whereit doesnt hurt your arm either BUT its not my kid going to do it

[1moreDBmom]

QUOTE(davidlimbaugh @ May 31 2007 - 02:46 PM) 826469670[/snapback]Jimmy Key. His dad was my little league coach. We played little league together. And even then his dad limited his curve ball throwing even though he had a pretty nasty one at 10 years of age. He just threw so hard and so well and hit his spots he didn't need to.... But we came up about 2 games short of making it Williamsport.....

 

 

 

Jimmy Key plays pro ball????

[hsbaseballfan03]

QUOTE(DWADE @ Jun 1 2007 - 11:07 AM) 826470045[/snapback]In my opinion, kids could start throwing a curveball when they are around 12 or 13. I only say that because there are ways to grip and throw curveballs that do not hurt the arm, but have the same effect. I remember when Craig Lowrance was in little league, he had a nasty 12-6 curve! He didn't throw the usual duce with the normal grip and twist of the wrist. I wish I could illistrate how to throw the pitch, but Im sure some of you might know what I am talking about. As far as learning pitches such as a cutter or a change up, I totally agree with that. I believe a curve is a great pitch to have in the arsenal, but I think that fastball-change up is the best 1-2 pitches and pitcher can have

 

 

 

I am in no way a professional on the subject, I'm just throwing my 2 cents in on the argument. I was taught/told by a very experience pitching coach and a chiropractor (two separate guys, just to clarify) that young men should not start to throw a curve until they have hair under their arm or in other words until they hit puberty. They both said that until then a young man's arm can't handle the strain a curve ball puts on it. But like I said, thats just what I was taught. I basically don't think the good out weighs the bad when it comes to starting out early with a curve ball. Kind of a high risk low reward situation.

[Hitter]

QUOTE(catsbackr @ May 31 2007 - 05:07 PM) 826469786[/snapback]Excellent, excellent post!

 

Coaches, pay attention.

 

 

I appreciate all of the comments on this post. I don't claim to know everything about baseball but between my two sons (my oldest being 16) I have sat and watched almost every one of their practices and games since the oldest was five, I do know a little bit about baseball. I will use all of the suggestions and comments above to help make wise decisions for my younger son. If these postings help prevent one kid from blowing out his arm, it was well worth it.

 

As far as quitting the team, we are going to try to stick it out until the end of the season even though financially it is very hard on me. The promise in the fall of only playing 2-3 overnight tournaments has now turned into five overnight weekend tournaments plus local tournaments on the weekends we are at home. As someone posted earlier we all get caught up in trying to play for a "TRAVEL TEAM". That does not necessarily mean that the kid is going to get the best instruction.

 

I have printed out all of the comments to discuss them with my son to help him make good decisions when he is on the mound.

[fromthetop2]

I just saw this topic. Hold off on the curve; instead, teach them the changeup. It is a little tougher to master (IMO), but is a pitch they will definitely need and use- and it is far less wear and tear on the arm. It is more devestating than Uncle Charlie.

 

My son was taught how to throw a curve by a former professional pitcher, as well as reinforced by a former collegiate pitcher. He had lessons for years that were taught by professionals. He was monitored and groomed.

Didn't matter.

 

He blew out his elbow (separated his growth plate), then developed shoulder problems; and quit the game in frustration in his mid-teens. He was tired of being hurt.

 

The problem is, as has been discussed, they don't have the muscle maturity and mental maturity to do it the same every time. So they start to "cheat" because the right way is not working, and they start dropping their elbow and 12-6 becomes 11-5, then they tire and it becomes 10-4 (or worse, 10-6). No amount of youth coaching in the heat of a game will catch this consistently enough. Catchers aren't trained well-enough either to see it. Bad habits develop and nothing is caught until it is too late.

 

Oh, we iced his arm and shoulder after every game, did rotator cuff exercises in the off-season, strengthening and conditioning- he was, in the end, just too young physically (and MENTALLY) to be disciplined enough to throw it right every time. I listened to all of the "if you teach him how the right way, he'll be fine." Nope, doesn't work- and I can rewrite this tale many times in my 20 years of coaching the highest levels of youth baseball. Read the books by Mike Marshall, Charlie Hough, Nolan Ryan on pitching- they will tell you the same thing. For every one that makes it, believe me, 20 get hurt.

[riverdaleman]

QUOTE(fromthetop2 @ Jun 1 2007 - 04:44 PM) 826470166[/snapback]I just saw this topic. Hold off on the curve; instead, teach them the changeup. It is a little tougher to master (IMO), but is a pitch they will definitely need and use- and it is far less wear and tear on the arm. It is more devestating than Uncle Charlie.

 

My son was taught how to throw a curve by a former professional pitcher, as well as reinforced by a former collegiate pitcher. He had lessons for years that were taught by professionals. He was monitored and groomed.

Didn't matter.

 

He blew out his elbow (separated his growth plate), then developed shoulder problems; and quit the game in frustration in his mid-teens. He was tired of being hurt.

 

The problem is, as has been discussed, they don't have the muscle maturity and mental maturity to do it the same every time. So they start to "cheat" because the right way is not working, and they start dropping their elbow and 12-6 becomes 11-5, then they tire and it becomes 10-4 (or worse, 10-6). No amount of youth coaching in the heat of a game will catch this consistently enough. Catchers aren't trained well-enough either to see it. Bad habits develop and nothing is caught until it is too late.

 

Oh, we iced his arm and shoulder after every game, did rotator cuff exercises in the off-season, strengthening and conditioning- he was, in the end, just too young physically (and MENTALLY) to be disciplined enough to throw it right every time. I listened to all of the "if you teach him how the right way, he'll be fine." Nope, doesn't work- and I can rewrite this tale many times in my 20 years of coaching the highest levels of youth baseball. Read the books by Mike Marshall, Charlie Hough, Nolan Ryan on pitching- they will tell you the same thing. For every one that makes it, believe me, 20 get hurt.

 

Im sorry there was nothing like this to give you a heads up for your son as i have heard and seen many stories myself about that IF YOU TEACH THEM RIGHT CRAP (already mentioned in a different post) hopefully though this thread will help anopther 10-14 year old

[fromthetop2]

Thanks R-daleman.

 

If there were some message boards then that allowed me to "see" more, it might have made a difference. Of course, then I would have had to go against all of the other brain trusts and kids who saw no problem with a kid even at the age of 9 chucking a curve ball. In the end, it was all about winning "that game"- which soon became irrelevant when the next big game came up. It was too much living in the moment- get THAT batter out, end the inning, shut the door. That was what was important- and this was with GOOD coaches who knew what they were talking about, who taught and didn't berate. It was about ego and pride.

 

 

I heard "he's got a natural curve". Kids respond to praise, and he kept throwing "that pitch" (Even twelve years later, dads will come up to me on that team and remember the pitch he threw in the 9 year old AAU National Championship game that broke so much the umpire yelled out when he called strike three on the final out- "Best pitch I've ever seen thrown at this age ever. Wow, that thing broke three feet!") Naw, I realized too late he was throwing a slider also, which is even worse. He was encouraged to throw the curve, not encouraged enough to throw the change. Too many travel team games, tournaments, fall balls, championships, titles, and awards that got in the way of real progress (I've got to watch out and avoid getting on my soapbox about the hoax called travel team baseball) or purpose.

 

All in all it is a shame. My son had "Sonny Gray" type stuff but greed and ignorance on everyone's part took it away. The good news is that he still loves the game, and found lacrosse (great sport for ex-ballplayers) and became two-time All-State.

 

I'll close with the goals I had in developing players in their youth. Two goals only;

1. Learn to appreciate and understand the game, the proper way to play it, and its unique beauty;

2. Have individually the proper fundamental skill set and experience that, if you wanted to try out for your high school team, then you would have a very good chance of acheiving that goal.

 

That was my responsibility to your son. Anything else, in my mind, was fraudulent.

 

Good luck to all of the dad's who are struggling with this. It's tough.

[Frayser1974]

QUOTE(Hitter @ May 31 2007 - 11:13 AM) 826469595[/snapback]My 11 year old son is playing on a travel team. He is a pitcher. His coaches keep calling curve balls and he has begun to shake them off. He told them he was not comfortable throwing the pitch. He has a good fast ball and change up. Now the coaches stand in the dugout and make comments about how he does his own thing and won't throw the curve ball.

 

Should he throw the curve when the coaches want him to throw it or continue to tell them he is not going to throw it?

 

He was told by his pitching instructor (an ex major league player) that he should not be throwing the curve ball.

 

We are seeing a lot of 11 year old teams that have pitchers throwing tons of curve balls and it is effective.

 

I have been struggling with this all season. I think the coaches want the wins now and aren't thinking about the future of the boys.

 

Your son is right......I started this topic not because I didnt know the answer, but I wanted other opinions so I could print them off and give them to some of these coachs in our so called competitive baseball who are worried about nothing but a win right now. Most curves at this age work only because they are changing speeds, not because of there break. I would like to thank everyone for some great answers

[1moreDBmom]

QUOTE(fromthetop2 @ Jun 2 2007 - 08:29 AM) 826470402[/snapback]It was too much living in the moment- get THAT batter out, end the inning, shut the door.

 

 

 

I can tell through your comment that you learned a hard lesson the hard way. I am glad that there are people out there who care more about the kids on both teams then the game at hand.

 

 

I did notice one thing you said that can't be farther from the trugh however. I think you were perhaps defending the coaches who make decisions in game situations to try to pull out a win but I have one problem with the "living in the moment..." theory.

 

That kid was not taught the curve ball in the heat of the moment between the 2nd and 3rd out on a coach visit to the mound.

 

Somewhere along the way somebody planned ahead of time and taught these kids how to throw curves. No way that could be a heat of the moment decision in a tough game.

[SSHS_Rebel]

Well, depending on how they throw, some people can throw a decent curve without any different motion than a fastball, you just have to adjust the grip; I know some people that still do that with theirs.

[Hitter]

QUOTE(Frayser1974 @ Jun 2 2007 - 04:19 PM) 826470544[/snapback]Your son is right......I started this topic not because I didnt know the answer, but I wanted other opinions so I could print them off and give them to some of these coachs in our so called competitive baseball who are worried about nothing but a win right now. Most curves at this age work only because they are changing speeds, not because of there break. I would like to thank everyone for some great answers

 

 

 

My son pitched a game this weekend and threw 95 pitches. Is this to many pitches for an 11 year old? I iced his arm after the game and told them he could not pitch the next day. This made the coach mad and my son only got to play one inning out of 12 today. The shortstop got hurt and he would not let him come out. He told him to stink it up because he would not put anyone else in the position. My son and another both capable of playing the position were on the bench. The kid was bent over holding his arm. We have ask to be released from the team.