Rules Question

[TribeFan]

Situation:

Offensive team lines up to attempt a field goal.....long snapper snaps the ball to holder who is positioned to recieve the snap with one knee on the ground.....holder recieves snap and then gets up and runs with the kicker trailing him much like an option play with a QB and RB.....holder pitches ball to the kicker and he breakes the goal line for an apparent TD.

Question: Is the holder not considered down when he recieves the snap from the long snapper while his knee is still on the ground?

I understand that it is legal as long as the kicker is making an attempt to kick the ball but if there is no attempt to kick at the ball the holder would be considered down thus negating the apparent TD......

Does anybody know the correct ruleing? Is there a difference between high school and college?

[greenwheel]

I believe that's a legal play.

[TribeFan]

But is the holder not considered down once he recieves the ball from the snapper and his knee is on the ground?????

[LSMFT]

Legal play. If the holder is down when his knee is on the ground, HOW CAN YOU KICK AN EXTRA POINT OR FG?

 

I think college rules are different, cause I just watched ESPN and LSU flipped a ball over the shulder to the kicker on a fake FG play and it scored a TD.

[lastone2know]

But is the holder not considered down once he recieves the ball from the snapper and his knee is on the ground?????

 

 

Believe he has 2 be touched 4 him to be considered down...

[IMAZEBRA]

Great question...here's the rule....it's Rule 4-2-2 (exception) in the NFHS football rulebook.

 

First off...the rule holds true for Field Goal attempts and Extra Point attempts.

 

"The ball remains live if, at the snap, a holder (with his knees(s) on the groud) and (a teammate in position to kick the ball) catches the snap and (1) places the ball to be kicked or (2) rises to advance, hand off, kick, or pass the ball"

 

However - if the holder "pitches" or "passes" the ball to a teammate while the holders knee is on the ground I believe the ball is dead. The holder must "rise" before attempting: a run, pass, etc. That is the "high school rule".

 

So - the play that LSU used on South Carolina (9/22/07) would NOT be an option in high school, if the holder's knee was on the ground.

 

This situation gets real complicated if you throw in an "errant snap". Basically, a holder can come off the ground to catch an errant snap and return his knee to the ground immediately - and, still be allowed to hold for a kick, rise and advance the ball, pass, etc. The key here - catch the errant snap and immediately go back to the ground.

 

Again - great Question - hope that helps,

[TribeFan]

IMAZEBRA thanks for the answer....I assumed there had to be a correct definition because how could a holder with his knee on the ground not be considered down before the kicker ever has a chance to attempt the kick.

I understand what you just explained.....The play yesterday in the LSU / SC game is not legal in high school because the holder did not rise from his kneeling position and then pitch the ball. The key to this entire rule in high school from what I understand is that the holder must rise to pitch or throw and not do this from the "down" position.

I just want to be an informed fan when I am watching a game.....Thanks for the help!

[LSMFT]

imazebra,

I knew the rule, I was responding to tribefan.

[IMAZEBRA]

IMAZEBRA thanks for the answer....I assumed there had to be a correct definition because how could a holder with his knee on the ground not be considered down before the kicker ever has a chance to attempt the kick.

I understand what you just explained.....The play yesterday in the LSU / SC game is not legal in high school because the holder did not rise from his kneeling position and then pitch the ball. The key to this entire rule in high school from what I understand is that the holder must rise to pitch or throw and not do this from the "down" position.

I just want to be an informed fan when I am watching a game.....Thanks for the help!

 

 

TribeFan,

 

Thanks for askin' - I am honored to help. After almost 30 years of "wearing the striped shirt", I still need to review and learn.

 

Here's another strange HS rule...to conserve time and stop the clock, a HS quaterback can receive a direct hand to hand snap (under center). and throw a forward pass to the ground.

 

I attended a recent game where this was attemped (late in the 4th quarter) - however, the center and quarterback somewhat fumbled the snap. The quarterback still threw the ball to the ground in an attempt to save time and stop the clock.

 

Because the snap was NOT a direct hand to hand to hand snap (fumbled but recovered by the QB). The referee correctly penizalized the offense for an illegal pass (a loss of down penality). OUCH.

 

There are several limitation placed on the offense to allow 'em to "spike" this pass to kill the clock. The QB must make sure the snap is clean, the pass is forward, and the pass does not hit a lineman.

[TribeFan]

TribeFan,

 

Thanks for askin' - I am honored to help. After almost 30 years of "wearing the striped shirt", I still need to review and learn.

 

Here's another strange HS rule...to conserve time and stop the clock, a HS quaterback can receive a direct hand to hand snap (under center). and throw a forward pass to the ground.

 

I attended a recent game where this was attemped (late in the 4th quarter) - however, the center and quarterback somewhat fumbled the snap. The quarterback still threw the ball to the ground in an attempt to save time and stop the clock.

 

Because the snap was NOT a direct hand to hand to hand snap (fumbled but recovered by the QB). The referee correctly penizalized the offense for an illegal pass (a loss of down penality). OUCH.

 

There are several limitation placed on the offense to allow 'em to "spike" this pass to kill the clock. The QB must make sure the snap is clean, the pass is forward, and the pass does not hit a lineman.

 

So I assume when you say "hand to hand" that the QB can not be in the shotgun and recieve the snap and then attempt to spike the ball or can he?

[IMAZEBRA]

That's correct - if the QB "spikes" the ball forward to kill the clock: (1) after a fumble or (2) from the shotgun, - both are examples of "illegal passes".

 

5 yard penality - and loss of down

 

The QB could throw a "backward pass" out of bounds (from the shotgun) to kill the clock - but, the offense would lose some yardage. They'd get the ball where it went out of bounds. This would NOT be an illegal pass.

 

 

 

In addition - that "out of the tackle box" rule now being seen in the college game is currently not a part of the H.S. rules. So, it is still illegal grounding (in H. S.), no matter where the QB thows the pass.