Claiborne back on track!

[oldindian]

bbballs you are probably correct in saying I do not have enough in side knowledge of why the girls quit, so fom the comments you made toward my thread I am assuming you do so hopefully you can answer some questions for me. you stated they quit because of lack of communication, pointing them out individually, "running them off", and personal issues. The running off part, are you saying the coach is actually running them to much or just figure of speech. Anyway the other stuff in my thread you responded to is all opion, except you are correct jackson did when state after she left. Tubby Smith won the national title after Rick Pitinoe left, so I guess tubby is better than Pittinoe. By no means am I comparing the coaching ability just the sitituation. I said this before if you would not have got so mad and paid attention to my thread, the season you are on is one from all the work and prepartion you put into or in some cases did not put into. So in my opion you can look at the season the team is having the year after the coach has left and see how well they left the program. And I know she left both programs better off than when she got them. Are you kidding me, without hurting anyone's feelings her but do remember union co. before she got there. They could'nt do lay-ups before the game and the sad thing was the coach they had did'nt care. Yea maybe cook did hurt someone's feelings down there just like she has here however I am just stating facts you know what union co. looked like before she got there. And I would be willing to bet except I don't that union co. will have a respectable little team this year and years to come. i wonder why? As far as the reasons for the girls quiting I really believe if you trully love the sport you are playing it does not matter how much the coach yells and screams, kicks, throws, getting pointed out, hey that is exactly the way life is going to be "TOUGH". And maybe some of the things she said was hurtful and embarrsing I don't know, I can tell you life is pretty darn tough. And I know I played all three sports in high school and have a state championship ring in football, however that sport was easy because we won all the time. The things like baseball were tough because we did not win and we all the our coach was stupid and did not know what he was talking about. Why? because we were loosing! I wanted to quit more than anything noway my parents said "you started it you finish it", sports teaches us about life simple things like not quiting, and don't come back and give me some excuse of why they did, the fact of the matter is, if cook would have done somthing so bad then I believe she would have lost her job. I don't know it's sad all the way around. There is an old saying "Be part of the solution not part of the problem"!

[DaveAAU]

bbballs you are probably correct in saying I do not have enough in side knowledge of why the girls quit, so fom the comments you made toward my thread I am assuming you do so hopefully you can answer some questions for me. you stated they quit because of lack of communication, pointing them out individually, "running them off", and personal issues. The running off part, are you saying the coach is actually running them to much or just figure of speech. Anyway the other stuff in my thread you responded to is all opion, except you are correct jackson did when state after she left. Tubby Smith won the national title after Rick Pitinoe left, so I guess tubby is better than Pittinoe. By no means am I comparing the coaching ability just the sitituation. I said this before if you would not have got so mad and paid attention to my thread, the season you are on is one from all the work and prepartion you put into or in some cases did not put into. So in my opion you can look at the season the team is having the year after the coach has left and see how well they left the program. And I know she left both programs better off than when she got them. Are you kidding me, without hurting anyone's feelings her but do remember union co. before she got there. They could'nt do lay-ups before the game and the sad thing was the coach they had did'nt care. Yea maybe cook did hurt someone's feelings down there just like she has here however I am just stating facts you know what union co. looked like before she got there. And I would be willing to bet except I don't that union co. will have a respectable little team this year and years to come. i wonder why? As far as the reasons for the girls quiting I really believe if you trully love the sport you are playing it does not matter how much the coach yells and screams, kicks, throws, getting pointed out, hey that is exactly the way life is going to be "TOUGH". And maybe some of the things she said was hurtful and embarrsing I don't know, I can tell you life is pretty darn tough. And I know I played all three sports in high school and have a state championship ring in football, however that sport was easy because we won all the time. The things like baseball were tough because we did not win and we all the our coach was stupid and did not know what he was talking about. Why? because we were loosing! I wanted to quit more than anything noway my parents said "you started it you finish it", sports teaches us about life simple things like not quiting, and don't come back and give me some excuse of why they did, the fact of the matter is, if cook would have done somthing so bad then I believe she would have lost her job. I don't know it's sad all the way around. There is an old saying "Be part of the solution not part of the problem"!

 

 

You're kidding right? She DID NOT WIN A DISTRICT GAME THE ENTIRE TIME SHE WAS THERE. 0-22! All you have to do is look at previous seasons results on this site or others. That's not speculation, that's fact.

 

Last season, Union Co. finished 11-19 overall, 0-11 district under her tenure. This season, after she is gone, they are 6-6 (0-1) which is a slight improvement but I would tend to credit the current coach for those results. If she didn't get it done while she was there, you can't really say her player development has now just started to show up on the stat sheet an entire season later, and her teaching mysteriously overrides the current coaches' instruction.

 

Claiborne has went from a very good team to probably the worst team in the district. They finished 25-4 (11-0 district) last year and did lose Whitney Parkey, Chelsea Pressnell, and Bonnie Debusk. Still the other two starters, Kellie Rosenbalm and Taylor Hall, would have been supported by Beth Turner, Lindsey Parker, and maybe even Angelica Jackson might have played this year to reunite the SMMS state champion team, along with Ariel Nickell. Heather Green would have had much less pressure on her at PG had these players stayed on the team as well.

 

So far this season, they are 2-10 (0-1) and have not won a game AT HOME YET.

 

I hate to get on the bash bandwagon here, but facts are facts. My kid is the same age as these girls so I've watched her coach from SMMS to Union Co. back to CHS. I could even say I watched her play for LMU in the late 90's if that adds to the conversation (BTW - her senior year at LMU the Lady Railsplitters were 9-17 (2-12), take that for what it's worth.)

 

I believe we will see some action taken at least when the season is mercifully over. Continuing to lose is a solution in and of itself, which the players may have figured out by now.

 

I am not a fan of quitting by any means, I'm a "if you start it you finish it person" also. In this case though, I literally saw one of the players so emotionally distraught that she was holding her stomach and bent over in the stands after a game. That tells me all I need to know about her coaching method.

[oldindian]

daveaau all I am doing is trying to find a solution that would get these girls back on the court because i too have seen these girls play since elementary. And it's pretty clear the coach is not going anywhere this year, so maybe these girls and the coach could meet (no parents), principal should be there and as for the A.D. at chs, they do not have that title anymore. I will take your word on the record at union while cook was there in region however, they did when some games that was a plus from the previous coach. And dave you know as well as I do in order to begin to build a program you have to start at the bottom levels and cook did attempt that ( I believe the former girls middle school coach whom cook brought in old friend from lmu maybe, is know the high school coach at union. I aso agree somtimes she can be really hard on her players and I really do not know whatelse went on however, it must have not been criminal or she would be in jail. I just think it is sad that both sides can not come together for the better of the program and eachother. For what ever reasons these girls quit I hope ten years from now they don't have regrets. I had coaches I hated as I am sure you did however, I was not playing because I liked or disliked the coach we played because we loved the game and loved our teamates so if you do not play for these reasons then maybe people should not play the sport. When I say this next statement know one please take it the wrong way I am just spitt balling here. Do you think maybe at the begining of the season some of the returning players realized "hey this is going to be really tough this year we don't have whitney, pressnell, and debusk who were great players we might not be as good as we were last year". not to mention they lost there coach who in my opion was as good as x's and o's coach around he knows his stuff. And if they did think this who could blame them they are young and inexperienced maybe the coach did or didnot realize this and hurt the situation by yelling alot. Dave you know if you have a young team who is not real sure of themselves you as a coach need to encourage more than discourage. I do not know if any of this happened or not once again I am going to say it is really sad to see happen to good people on both sides.

[BBBalls]

daveaau all I am doing is trying to find a solution that would get these girls back on the court because i too have seen these girls play since elementary. And it's pretty clear the coach is not going anywhere this year, so maybe these girls and the coach could meet (no parents), principal should be there and as for the A.D. at chs, they do not have that title anymore. I will take your word on the record at union while cook was there in region however, they did when some games that was a plus from the previous coach. And dave you know as well as I do in order to begin to build a program you have to start at the bottom levels and cook did attempt that ( I believe the former girls middle school coach whom cook brought in old friend from lmu maybe, is know the high school coach at union. I aso agree somtimes she can be really hard on her players and I really do not know whatelse went on however, it must have not been criminal or she would be in jail. I just think it is sad that both sides can not come together for the better of the program and eachother. For what ever reasons these girls quit I hope ten years from now they don't have regrets. I had coaches I hated as I am sure you did however, I was not playing because I liked or disliked the coach we played because we loved the game and loved our teamates so if you do not play for these reasons then maybe people should not play the sport. When I say this next statement know one please take it the wrong way I am just spitt balling here. Do you think maybe at the begining of the season some of the returning players realized "hey this is going to be really tough this year we don't have whitney, pressnell, and debusk who were great players we might not be as good as we were last year". not to mention they lost there coach who in my opion was as good as x's and o's coach around he knows his stuff. And if they did think this who could blame them they are young and inexperienced maybe the coach did or didnot realize this and hurt the situation by yelling alot. Dave you know if you have a young team who is not real sure of themselves you as a coach need to encourage more than discourage. I do not know if any of this happened or not once again I am going to say it is really sad to see happen to good people on both sides.

 

 

 

To answer your question about whether or not the girls might have quit because of the returning talent and it being a harder season, the answer is NO. They didn't quit for that reason, the girls that started the season were mainly the girls that won the state title at SMMS and sure they would have definitely missed Parkey, Pressnell and Debusk, but they had a lot of talent returning to step up and take their places. We would have had, in my opinion, a really good post player in Rosenbaum returning, with her and Nickell under the boards it would have been a force along with Hall, and the other girls that left we would have been a real threat to win district and go a lot further. In my personal opinion, which means nothing to anyone but me, Sam Killion should have been starting all season in front of any of the girls she has playing now. I did notice at the last home game she started and played well. Heather Green turns the ball over way too much and probably shouldn't be playing nearly as much as she is and most likely wouldn't be if we still had all the girls we started the summer with. And I repeat, in case you overlooked it the first time, nobody quit because of knee pads or yelling. I was because they were singled out because of personal issues Cook had with them that had very little if anything to do with basketball. I think you may need to get a grip on reality as far as the comparison between Pitino and Smith, Smith took a great group of kids and won a championship. Cook has taken a great group of kids a destroyed a team and a program. Where's the comparison? Jackson took a group of girls that weren't as talented as the team the year before and turned them into overachievers and won the state title. Still no comparison to what Cook did the year before by having a more talented team and underachieving.

[DaveAAU]

I think we all agree that it's a tough year all around.

 

I'm not saying anything posted is right or wrong, but to have an opinion or argument taken seriously, one should state their case, then back it up with at least a few facts.

 

1. I will take your word on the record at union while cook was there in region however, they did when some games that was a plus from the previous coach. Which games were they? In "region" are you referring to the regional tournament? They didn't advance beyond district either year.

 

2. I believe the former girls middle school coach whom cook brought in old friend from lmu maybe, is know the high school coach at union. If you are talking about Karra Jackson, she is now varsity girls coach at Lexington Bryan Station. The UCHS girls coach is Roger Murphy.

 

3. it must have not been criminal or she would be in jail. While it may not be criminal in the legal sense, a coach can get away with a lot if the community doesn't step up and demand accountability. We don't yet know whether it is criminal, since it is still being played out. It also takes time for indictments and the legal system to build a case. Not saying that will happen, but just because it hasn't yet doesn't mean anything either. Coach Cox, the boys coach at SMMS last year, was in a similar situation and he was effectively fired.

 

4. if you have a young team who is not real sure of themselves you as a coach need to encourage more than discourage Exactly. That's the heart of the problem, but amplified about a dozen times.

 

Coaching young kids, as opposed to college players, is vastly different.

A - They didn't choose their school, coach, or neighborhood - their parents chose for them.

B - They are still in early stages of character development and many teens question and are inherently rebellious to authority.

 

Rule # 1 with a middle or high school coach is to get the players to WANT to play for you. Make it fun but challenging, teach them but don't preach to them, lead by example, and you'll get their respect and buy-in to your system. When mistakes are made, coach them but don't make them fear making mistakes or they'll avoid taking risks to improve.

 

There are a lot of ways to coach in a positive manner at this level and still win. 10 years from now I would much rather my kid remember a coach that was a good role model and mentor, regardless of how the season went in terms of wins and losses, than one that makes them shudder at the thought of the bad experiences they had.

[DaveAAU]

To answer your question about whether or not the girls might have quit because of the returning talent and it being a harder season, the answer is NO. They didn't quit for that reason, the girls that started the season were mainly the girls that won the state title at SMMS and sure they would have definitely missed Parkey, Pressnell and Debusk, but they had a lot of talent returning to step up and take their places. We would have had, in my opinion, a really good post player in Rosenbaum returning, with her and Nickell under the boards it would have been a force along with Hall, and the other girls that left we would have been a real threat to win district and go a lot further. In my personal opinion, which means nothing to anyone but me, Sam Killion should have been starting all season in front of any of the girls she has playing now. I did notice at the last home game she started and played well. Heather Green turns the ball over way too much and probably shouldn't be playing nearly as much as she is and most likely wouldn't be if we still had all the girls we started the summer with. And I repeat, in case you overlooked it the first time, nobody quit because of knee pads or yelling. I was because they were singled out because of personal issues Cook had with them that had very little if anything to do with basketball. I think you may need to get a grip on reality as far as the comparison between Pitino and Smith, Smith took a great group of kids and won a championship. Cook has taken a great group of kids a destroyed a team and a program. Where's the comparison? Jackson took a group of girls that weren't as talented as the team the year before and turned them into overachievers and won the state title. Still no comparison to what Cook did the year before by having a more talented team and underachieving.

 

 

Just wanted to reply to a couple of your points. I agree about Sam - she played some ball with us over the summer and I think she will become a good ballplayer before it's over with.

 

The comparison to the 1998 UK team was not valid the way it was originally presented- if one wanted to give credit to the previous coach there, Pitino, it wouldn't be due to player development but to recruiting. Those players in fact had to learn an entirely new system of defense (ball line defense) and struggled off and on all season and even in the final three games of the NCAA tourney had to overcome double-digit deficits - hence the nickname Comeback Cats.

 

Following the premise of oldindian's original argument (as you also inferred) - these kids should have had some momentum from Parkey's excellent coaching job and Cook's job coming in should have been fairly easy this year. Instead, she has in effect disbanded the heart of the varsity team and is left with a couple of players that are trying to carry the team on their shoulders.

 

I can't help but think of what people say about "trust" - it can take years to earn it and seconds to lose it. That can be also said for building tradition in a program over a span of years and then destroy it in a matter of months. Hopefully things will work out and CHS will truly be "back on track" next season.

[oldindian]

daveaau what i meant to say in my earlier thread about region wins was written wrong. I agreed about the dist. or region games whatever they call them in Tenn. that cook may not have won many or none at all took your word. I do know they won "non-dist." games the years she was there and that was an improvement from the last coach because I do know for "fact" they were o and nothing one or maybe two years under the previous coach. So any wins dist. or no dist. win would have been an improvement for cook to have while she was there that is a fact. And if you want facts I am sure you can go on coacht. previous schedules and look the records up. And I apologize if I get confused with Tenn. dist. and region I am more familar with the format in Kentucky were it is set from dist. then region and state. simple! not all of the sub-state mid-region or whatever it is. And as far as stating opinion or argument of being taken seriously, if you do not like my thread do not respond to it. However I was just playing devils advocate I do not have a dog in the fight no pune intended, I would just like to see both sides work this out.

[DaveAAU]

daveaau what i meant to say in my earlier thread about region wins was written wrong. I agreed about the dist. or region games whatever they call them in Tenn. that cook may not have won many or none at all took your word. I do know they won "non-dist." games the years she was there and that was an improvement from the last coach because I do know for "fact" they were o and nothing one or maybe two years under the previous coach. So any wins dist. or no dist. win would have been an improvement for cook to have while she was there that is a fact. And if you want facts I am sure you can go on coacht. previous schedules and look the records up. And I apologize if I get confused with Tenn. dist. and region I am more familar with the format in Kentucky were it is set from dist. then region and state. simple! not all of the sub-state mid-region or whatever it is. And as far as stating opinion or argument of being taken seriously, if you do not like my thread do not respond to it. However I was just playing devils advocate I do not have a dog in the fight no pune intended, I would just like to see both sides work this out.

 

 

I'm not trying to pick on you, I was just trying to advance the debate. I think we all agree there is a problem, but may be on different sides of the solution. You have a valid point in Union Co.'s season last year - they did win 11 games somehow, which may have been an improvement. I won't dispute that. I did do the research and quoted the exact records a few posts ago. That's what I was asking you to do as well if you wanted to advance your points.

 

It seems a little contradictory though that you say you've watched these girls for so many years but are not familiar with Tennessee district/region/sectional/state pairings. The only difference between Kentucky and TN is Kentucky has 16 regions that advance to the sweet 16 for the state tourney; In TN the prelimininary rounds of the state tournament are played out in Sectionals, but teams still have to advance through district and regional tourneys first. The confusing part is in middle school the highest advancement possible is Sub-State (East, Middle, West) but that doesn't apply at the high school level.

 

In closing, I'll paste an excerpt from the 11/23/07 Lexington Herald 2007 Girls Basketball Preview regarding the new Bryan Station coach, Karra Jackson:

 

BRYAN STATION

 

Coach: Karra Jackson, first season

 

Outlook: With a new coach and just one senior, Jackson said her team is sure to take its lumps, but is building for a future that could be bright with a lot of young talent. Jackson has a lot of athletes, so she plans to play to that asset, pressing "from end line to end line," hoping that defense will lead to offense. The team will miss Stevenson, last season's leading scorer and rebounder, who moved out of state. The Defenders have some size with Jackson and Prince at 5-11, but they are mostly a guard-oriented team. Freshmen and sophomores (at key positions like point guard) will have to make an immediate impact for Station to have success in a difficult region. "Some people say youth is a bad thing, but we're looking at it as a strength," Jackson said. "We can start working with these players early and building them into a team together."

 

Rebirth, renewal: Station is not that far removed from being one of the teams to beat in the 11th Region. Jackson hopes things like a new school, a new gym and a new coaching staff will lead to a renewal of program success. "I keep preaching team pride and working together as a team and be a team," she said. "We want to show them that we're here for them. I'm a big team person. It's extremely important for us to build a future here, to make kids want to be a part of it and to make the community want to support us."

 

This is exactly what I said a couple of posts ago, and Karra knew how to get this done when she was coach at SMMS, which was the point made by other posters.

 

It is a shame she is up in Lexington coaching and not back here at home in my opinion, but she is without a doubt going to be very successful at BSHS. She was also an assistant last season at North Laurel under legendary coach Roy Bowling so her coaching resume just keeps getting better.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

[DaveAAU]

UPDATE: Claiborne Progress - Claiborne Board of Education Meeting held 12/13:

 

Douglas Venable and two Claiborne High School students addressed the board regarding dissatisfaction with the girl's basketball coach, Lori Cook. "I've never seen four starters quit the team." Venable said.

 

Cook was not in attendance and there was no one there to speak on her behalf. Owens told the audience that the board is aware of the situation and it is under evaluation.

 

Sam Owens is the board chairman. Sounds like something is at least in motion now.

 

Claiborne Progress - School Board Meeting

[balleronhand]

As an outsider looking in, I first want to say that I commend the girls who have remained on this team which is now into its mid-season...and..no ,it has not been an easy road for these girls.Within all the surrounding contriversy,remains this team of girls who get out there and play hard regardless of the gossip,quitters,coaching disputes and obsticles which they have had to deal with all season..There is young talent on this team..girls which have been playing school ball since the 4th grade,and have now turned into fine players.Talent such as post player CAITLYN FIELDS and ARIEL NICHOL, who together play a strong game when decent coaching is apparent ,along with SAM KILLION, who has proven to be a much needed player on this team this year.Without these players stepping in as proven leaders on this team ,Claiborne would not be playing a girls season.Who knows what lies ahead for the Claiborne girls team next year, but I can almost bet that the coaching staff will be better prepared for a successful season and that these 3 talented players will be even better next year..You see..QUITTING is easy, gossiping is wasteful, sticking with something that you love to do,like playing basketball,against ALL ODDS,IS SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF. TO CAITLYN, ARIEL AND SAM ,YOU GO GIRLS!!!!!

[chill]

I'm assuming since the School Board is investigating the situation that the 2-3 people involved on here will be satisfied. Honestly, I think enough coach-bashing has taken place on this and the other thread that was closed. Your issues should now be with your County Administration that hired the coach in question......Hopefully this thread will die out, if not I'm sure Coacht will close it........Good luck Claiborne....

[mchale24]

/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" What exactly has Coach Cook done to the players that may be improper besides being hard on them? Just curious what all the mess is about.

 

 

I'm assuming since the School Board is investigating the situation that the 2-3 people involved on here will be satisfied. Honestly, I think enough coach-bashing has taken place on this and the other thread that was closed. Your issues should now be with your County Administration that hired the coach in question......Hopefully this thread will die out, if not I'm sure Coacht will close it........Good luck Claiborne....