TSSAA RULES

[catsbackr]

I don't doubt that there is no rule being violated.

 

Regarding the tenor of this topic, I was simply trying to state that for a coach to allow someone other than one of their coaches to call pitches for the pitcher shows an utter lack of control or discipline on their team.

 

And as far as the catcher not knowing what pitch is coming, a lot of the top pitchers decide what they want to throw on each pitch and communicate that pitch to the catcher simply by shaking off her signals.

 

So....if the pitcher shakes off the catcher until she gets the pitch she wants, then....the catcher knows what pitch is coming, right?

 

I just find it humorous that at the high school level a pitcher's DADDY is telling her what pitch to throw!

[Old Warhorse]

I don't doubt that there is no rule being violated.

 

Regarding the tenor of this topic, I was simply trying to state that for a coach to allow someone other than one of their coaches to call pitches for the pitcher shows an utter lack of control or discipline on their team.

So....if the pitcher shakes off the catcher until she gets the pitch she wants, then....the catcher knows what pitch is coming, right?

 

I just find it humorous that at the high school level a pitcher's DADDY is telling her what pitch to throw!

 

It is the Daddy ball! How about letting kids play and enjoying their success. In my years around high school athletics, I have seen too many kids have their high school playing experienced diminished by overbearing parents whose playing days are over or never were. Umpires know where the signals come from. Let the coaches coach and kids play. If I had my wish, I would let the catcher and pitcher call their own game like the old days.

[wad]

Dad, You would call pitches for one inning. I would tell my players to STOP receiving instruction from the sidelines. If she did not. GONE off the team. HOW WOULD THAT MAKE YOU FEEL. If your that good then coach high school, If not BUTT OUT and teach your child to take instruction from her coach. What a concept.

[FridayMainEvent]

Don't know who you talked to at TSSAA, but if they did write you back, it wasn't someone with knowledge of the softball rules. There isn't anything in TSSAA rules, by-laws, supplementals, etc. which convers anything like this or which would replace FED or ASA rules. This is often debated in school and travel ball and one can occasionally find an umpire who will tell them that it is illegal or will try to prevent it during a game. A select few decide that they don't like something and will then maintain there is a rule that doesn't exist and if that doesn't work to stop the behavior that upsets them, they cite an umpire or official who supposedly once told them it was illegal.

 

In reality, there is absolutely no rule which prevents a pitcher or catcher or any other player from getting a signal of any type from someone in the bleachers, nor is there any rule which limits signal calling of any type to coaches, players or bench personnel. In addition, there are several "rules" quoted elsewhere in this thread which are not rules either.

 

The pitcher does NOT have to be on the pitching plate or even in the circle to receive a signal. She can legally take a signal whenever and wherever she wants to take a signal and she can take a signal from anyone she wants to. There are no softball rules which prohibit doing so. What the rule does say is that once the pitcher steps on the pitching plate, she must then "take a signal or simulate taking a signal." (Incidentally, the rule book doesn't say who she has to take the signal from or simulate taking the signal from while on the pitching plate.)The primary purpose for the rule is to prevent quick pitches. The catcher doesn't have to give a signal at all. The pitcher has to pause long enough while looking into the batter to avoid a quick pitch by stepping on the pitcher's plate and beginning a pitch all in one motion.

 

It might not be a great idea to have a non-coach calling pitches from the bleachers, but it simply isn't illegal. And as far as the catcher not knowing what pitch is coming, a lot of the top pitchers decide what they want to throw on each pitch and communicate that pitch to the catcher simply by shaking off her signals.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but from experience and the tenor of this post, I'm guessing that this is a bluff aimed at a particular pitcher on a rival team with the hopes that her father/pitching coach will believe all this "against the rules" and "a lot to loose [sic]" stuff and quit calling pitches. Somehow, in a few minds somewhere, there is the belief that if they can take away a weapon or advantage, the pitcher who is doing just fine will crumble without that tool. I've lost count of all the "rules" over the years that get made up, spread, and believed because some parent has their nose out of joint over a rival they can't beat and want to attribute the loses to some activity or strategy utilized by the competition that their team doesn't use, understand, or like.

 

Ultimately, there isn't anything to lose (or loose) for the team in question. They aren't violating any rule, nor is there any consequence for that behavior. Even if they get an uniformed umpire who tries to stop it, there isn't any penalty in any rule book. (BTW, that's usually a pretty good way to know if a rule exists or not - for every behavior prohibited in every rule book, there is a corresponding resulting consequence. If there isn't a specific penalty outlined for a specific behavior, there isn't a rule against it.)

 

Rule 6

Sec. 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:

 

A. Prior to the pitch the pitcher shall take a position with: (1) The pivot foot on or partially on the surface of the pitchers plate; (2) The non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitchers plate. Both feet must be on the ground within or partially within the 24 in. length of the pitchers plate. The hands must be apart.

 

B. Preliminary to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with the shoulders inline with 1st and 3rd base with the ball in the pitchers hand or glove with the hands seperated.

 

C. WHILE IN THIS POSITION, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal from the CATCHER.

D. After completing C above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not less than 1 second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. The hands can be motionless or moving.

 

Exactly what part of the pitching rules did I make up or state incorrectly?? I honestly could care less who is giving the opposing pitcher her signals when I'm playing a team. If you are her parent and wish to give signals while playing me, feel free. If your daughter is playing for me, either myself, one of my assistants, or my catcher will be calling her pitches. If that isn't agreeable find another team. Can't say it any plainer than that!

[mwtfan]

Rule 6

Sec. 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:

 

A. Prior to the pitch the pitcher shall take a position with: (1) The pivot foot on or partially on the surface of the pitchers plate; (2) The non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitchers plate. Both feet must be on the ground within or partially within the 24 in. length of the pitchers plate. The hands must be apart.

 

B. Preliminary to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with the shoulders inline with 1st and 3rd base with the ball in the pitchers hand or glove with the hands seperated.

 

C. WHILE IN THIS POSITION, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal from the CATCHER.

D. After completing C above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in front of the body for not less than 1 second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball. The hands me motionless or moving.

 

Exactly what part of the pitching rules did I make up or state incorrectly?? I honestly could care less who is giving the opposing pitcher her signals when I'm playing a team. If you are her parent and wish to give signals while playing me, feel free. If your daughter is playing for me, either myself, one of my assistants, or my catcher will be calling her pitches. If that isn't agreeable find another team. Can't say it any plainer than that!

 

What is your source here? What is this copied from?

[FridayMainEvent]

What is your source here? What is this copied from?

 

 

mwtfan, I got that off the usssa.com website because they are the only ones that have their rulebook posted online I think. I have an nfhs rulebook at home, but I don't have it with me at the moment. Pretty sure the rules are very close if not identical. NFHS may not say from the catcher, but I'm pretty sure it is implied from the catcher. Obviously the word "simulate" would allow the pitcher to get her signals from whoever. The only point I was trying to make is that they are required to at least "simulate" getting a signal. I know that what Dore stated about not being able to "quick pitch" a batter is the reason for the rule, but the rule is worded in relation to taking a signal, which is what the argument involved.

 

http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-general/2008FPRuleBook.pdf

[JC#1fan]

What is your source here? What is this copied from?

 

Evidently not copied from anything mtwfan, due to typo in last part of rule. It sounds exetremly familiar though, almost a direct quote from the "little league" rule book. I think a little more investigation needs to be done into this thread. By the way great job last night, your girls are really hitting the ball. Maybe we'll see you again this weekend at Eastman. If not hopefully in the IMAC championship game.

[FridayMainEvent]

Evidently not copied from anything mtwfan, due to typo in last part of rule. It sounds exetremly familiar though, almost a direct quote from the "little league" rule book. I think a little more investigation needs to be done into this thread. By the way great job last night, your girls are really hitting the ball. Maybe we'll see you again this weekend at Eastman. If not hopefully in the IMAC championship game.

 

 

Thanks, JC, typing never was my strong point. No, you can't copy and paste from the website, so I just re-typed the rule as it was written.. (except for the typo which I think I corrected) /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

[blueandgoldfan]

I have always called my daughters pitches through out her young career, and in travel ball. I was in contact with the TSSAA and asked them via e-mail, about a parent calling pitches in H.S. play. They e-mailed me back and stated that if I wasn't on the coaching roster that NO I could not call her pitches it had to be the players or coaching staff only. I really cant see what difference it makes other than if you know how to read batters and sometimes we even mess up, but we learn from our mistake where a kid may not remember. There is a H.S. team out there in our confrence that has alot to loose if they get reported to the TSSAA, and I really wouldn't want to see that happen. You know who you are. Just someone who cares. /popcorneater.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":popcorneater:" border="0" alt="popcorneater.gif" />

 

 

What is the point of having a coach? And, are other parents jealous of the role you take? Does the coach know that this goes on? What if he/she calls a pitch and you call for a different one? Why put a player in that situation?

 

I have a great friend who coaches HS softball and he has exhausted me with his stories of parents who are problematic. Where, exactly, is the line that can be crossed by parents?

 

This really seems incredible to me.

[#12fan]

A few posts ago, someone hit the nail on the head. The original post under this thread was from a fan (or parent) from one school whose team was beaten by a rival school. I'm famaliar with the two schools and the original poster is correct when he says that a parent from outside the fence (for the other team) calls the pitches for his daughter. I've read from my NFHS rulebook from section 6 about pitching and there is nothing that makes calling the pitch from someone other than the catcher or coaches illegal. Being famaliar with the school in question, I don't think there's much doubt that the coach dosen't have the greatest control of the team nor the respect of the parents, but that's another thread. I don't believe that it's smart for the coach or the parent to allow a parent to give the signal to the catcher and that signal then passed on to the pitcher (that's how it works in this case - someone asked earlier how the pitcher got the signal & how the catcher knew what pitch was coming) but as far as I can tell, it's not illegal.

[EHSFAITHFUL]

UC21 - Sounds like to me your feathers got a little ruffled when you got beat the other night. I'm not taking anything away from you guys. I think you have a great program and a lot of tradition over the years, but accept it, you just got beat. And as far as you saying "you really wouldn't want to see that team get in trouble, just someone who cares", that sounds a little strange seeing as you went to the trouble to supposedly email TSSAA and then you post it on a message board. Doesn't sound very caring to me. I guess we need to check with TSSAA about parents hollering from the sidelines to keep your head in and weight back while batting. I guess this could be considered coaching from the bleachers too.

 

To the guy that has the ill feeling towards the coach, what you need to realize is that it was probably a good decision that you moved your daughter to a weaker 1A conference where she got plenty of pitching time that she never would have gotten at this 2A school.

[sportiemom]

UC21 - Sounds like to me your feathers got a little ruffled when you got beat the other night. I'm not taking anything away from you guys. I think you have a great program and a lot of tradition over the years, but accept it, you just got beat. And as far as you saying "you really wouldn't want to see that team get in trouble, just someone who cares", that sounds a little strange seeing as you went to the trouble to supposedly email TSSAA and then you post it on a message board. Doesn't sound very caring to me. I guess we need to check with TSSAA about parents hollering from the sidelines to keep your head in and weight back while batting. I guess this could be considered coaching from the bleachers too.

 

To the guy that has the ill feeling towards the coach, what you need to realize is that it was probably a good decision that you moved your daughter to a weaker 1A conference where she got plenty of pitching time that she never would have gotten at this 2A school.

 

 

And that weaker 1A team beat your 2A team and the weaker 1A teams catcher calls the pitches. Also she is still playing college ball so I guess it worked for her.