East Section Small School Enrollment Cutoff Goofup

[jhoop12]

actually Holston is the second largest not the largest, Bluff City is the largest and their boys and girls neither one made it to Sevierville, Mary Hughes is one of the smaller schools and they were the best team all year, they beat Holston 3 times this year, Holston was just fortunate to be the best in the 4th quarter of the last game, outscoring Mary Hughes 20-8 in the quarter, if it were all about numbers Holston or Bluff City would win it every year, so do not take away from what these six boys, who played the whole game, accomplished...it is true we need 3 divisions but these Holston kids are just playing by the rules that were set by people they do not even know

[champs1]

The largest of the Small Schools won the boys Championship (Holston).

 

The largest of the Large Schools won the boys Championship (Science Hill).

 

Now tell me numbers in enrollment doesn't matter.

 

 

Obviously numbers do help. However, I don't know how you could make a decision on where to make your cut-offs. If you make your cut-off at 75 for small school, 150 for medium school, and the rest are large school, the you still have schools with 155 students playing schools with 500 students.

 

I have coached for several years. Our teams have been to the state sectional for 3 of the last four years. I have beat schools with twice as many 8th graders as we have, and I have been beaten by schools with one third of the number of 8th graders as we have.

 

I don't think it has as much to do with the numbers as who you play during your regular season. A good example of this is Blountville Middle School. They always have a good team. They are almost always one of the top two teams in their conference. More often than not, they win their conference. However, when they move to tournament ball, they struggle. They have a VERY good coach! They usually have good talent. The difference is that they are very seldom pushed to play to their capability because their conference is weak.

 

I think that for a team to do well in post season, they have to play good teams during their regular season. You are only as good as who you play.

[crawdad]

Obviously numbers do help. However, I don't know how you could make a decision on where to make your cut-offs. If you make your cut-off at 75 for small school, 150 for medium school, and the rest are large school, the you still have schools with 155 students playing schools with 500 students.

 

I have coached for several years. Our teams have been to the state sectional for 3 of the last four years. I have beat schools with twice as many 8th graders as we have, and I have been beaten by schools with one third of the number of 8th graders as we have.

 

I don't think it has as much to do with the numbers as who you play during your regular season. A good example of this is Blountville Middle School. They always have a good team. They are almost always one of the top two teams in their conference. More often than not, they win their conference. However, when they move to tournament ball, they struggle. They have a VERY good coach! They usually have good talent. The difference is that they are very seldom pushed to play to their capability because their conference is weak.

 

I think that for a team to do well in post season, they have to play good teams during their regular season. You are only as good as who you play.

 

I understand your point about developing a team according to the level of competition. My understanding is that either Sullivan Co. or TMSAA limits the number of games you can play in the regular season. If you are bound to a conference schedule, there are a very limited number of at -large games against better opponents that you could schedule to improve the level of your play. This is the primary reason Colonial Heights left the Sullivan Co. league ,even though they are a county school, and gained admission to the Little Big 7 made up of city schools. They wanted to compete at a higher level in regular season even if it meant fewer championships. They were winning the county league just about every season. Blountville probably cannot schedule but a few (2-3?) games against better opponents even if they agree with our assessment, given their restrictions.

[area1guy]

actually Holston is the second largest not the largest, Bluff City is the largest and their boys and girls neither one made it to Sevierville, Mary Hughes is one of the smaller schools and they were the best team all year, they beat Holston 3 times this year, Holston was just fortunate to be the best in the 4th quarter of the last game, outscoring Mary Hughes 20-8 in the quarter, if it were all about numbers Holston or Bluff City would win it every year, so do not take away from what these six boys, who played the whole game, accomplished...it is true we need 3 divisions but these Holston kids are just playing by the rules that were set by people they do not even know

 

 

Congratulations to the Holston boys for a game well played!

[champs1]

I understand your point about developing a team according to the level of competition. My understanding is that either Sullivan Co. or TMSAA limits the number of games you can play in the regular season. If you are bound to a conference schedule, there are a very limited number of at -large games against better opponents that you could schedule to improve the level of your play. This is the primary reason Colonial Heights left the Sullivan Co. league ,even though they are a county school, and gained admission to the Little Big 7 made up of city schools. They wanted to compete at a higher level in regular season even if it meant fewer championships. They were winning the county league just about every season. Blountville probably cannot schedule but a few (2-3?) games against better opponents even if they agree with our assessment, given their restrictions.

 

 

TMSAA is the one who sets the limit on the number of games we can play. What I would like to see happen is for all of the schools to play in the same conference that their high school plays in. At first, this would hurt teams like Blountville and Holston. However, in the long run, it would help them to develop into better teams. That is the ultimate goal for the middle school programs. We are supposed to be developing players for the high school programs. This would also cut down on the amount of travel time for everyone.

 

The Coach at Blountville is one of the best middle school coaches in the area. However, as a coach, it is hard to make a team step up to the next level when they are already beating most of the other teams in their conference by 20.

[crawdad]

TMSAA is the one who sets the limit on the number of games we can play. What I would like to see happen is for all of the schools to play in the same conference that their high school plays in. At first, this would hurt teams like Blountville and Holston. However, in the long run, it would help them to develop into better teams. That is the ultimate goal for the middle school programs. We are supposed to be developing players for the high school programs. This would also cut down on the amount of travel time for everyone.

 

The Coach at Blountville is one of the best middle school coaches in the area. However, as a coach, it is hard to make a team step up to the next level when they are already beating most of the other teams in their conference by 20.

 

 

I have to ask: if Blountville was so good, why weren' they playing in the post-season? How did they fare in the Christmas tourney? And how would you structure a middle school conference of all feeder schools for the Big 9? I mean we're talking 9x2=18 teams. Talk about a super conference! That's 34 regular season games if you play everyone home and away. Have you really thought this out?

[champs1]

I have to ask: if Blountville was so good, why weren' they playing in the post-season? How did they fare in the Christmas tourney? And how would you structure a middle school conference of all feeder schools for the Big 9? I mean we're talking 9x2=18 teams. Talk about a super conference! That's 34 regular season games if you play everyone home and away. Have you really thought this out?

 

 

I am not sure how they did in the Christmas tournament, or even which Christmas tournament they played in. They did advance to the Area 1 tournament. They lost to Unicoi and T.A. Dugger.

 

It would be tough to do, but you could set up a conference from the Big 9 middle schools. Our baseball and softball teams have a conference which has too many teams to play everyone twice. They have the conference broken down into 2 divisions, east/west. They play everyone in their division twice, and everyone in the opposite division one time.

 

I was just using Blountville as an example. The same could be said of Holston, Bluff City, or anyone else for that matter. All I am saying is that in order for a team to reach their full potential, they have to play good teams. The Middle 8 consistantly has good teams. Colonial Heights figured this out. They will suffer more losses than they would have if they had stayed in the county conference. However, I think both Colonial Heights and South will continue to get stronger because of the move Colonial Heights made.

 

Anyway, it was just an idea. I did not mean to step on any toes.

[crawdad]

I am not sure how they did in the Christmas tournament, or even which Christmas tournament they played in. They did advance to the Area 1 tournament. They lost to Unicoi and T.A. Dugger.

 

It would be tough to do, but you could set up a conference from the Big 9 middle schools. Our baseball and softball teams have a conference which has too many teams to play everyone twice. They have the conference broken down into 2 divisions, east/west. They play everyone in their division twice, and everyone in the opposite division one time.

 

I was just using Blountville as an example. The same could be said of Holston, Bluff City, or anyone else for that matter. All I am saying is that in order for a team to reach their full potential, they have to play good teams. The Middle 8 consistantly has good teams. Colonial Heights figured this out. They will suffer more losses than they would have if they had stayed in the county conference. However, I think both Colonial Heights and South will continue to get stronger because of the move Colonial Heights made.

 

Anyway, it was just an idea. I did not mean to step on any toes.

 

You did not step on any toes. I enjoy the discussion but you have me confused. If you are who you say, then you must coach a small division school. The area 1 large tourney only had 5 teams this year: North, Colonial Heights, T.A Dugger, Robinson, and Science Hill. Blountville was not involved. Holston just won the Small division and they and North both play in the same league with Blountville so obviously Blountville is not beating everybody by 20 and routinely winning conference championships. You just seem to think a lot of their coach and state you coach as well . It seems like you would know these things.

 

In principle I agree with everthing you said. If the county league teams are unhappy with their level of competition they need to get in the city league or focus hard on scheduling several non-conference games against those teams. Unicoi Co. is a great example of a team in the league that usually finishes last in middle school league play and develops and moves on after taking their lumps. When they get to high school, they don't play Science Hill, Dobyns Bennett, etc. And they win big time in their AA basketball league.

 

Colonial Heights made the move because they felt most years they could compete with Vance, Robinson,Sevier, and Science Hill. The feeling was it would help South compete against the city High Schools when the kids got there. I think that is your whole point.

 

Whether this would be good for Bluff City, Blountville, or Holston I don't know. Holston seems to enjoy winning that small division and I don't blame them. One other point would be Colonial Heights athletes have very succesful pee wee programs in football and basketball much more like these city teams. They may be more prepared for that level of play by middle school than the other county teams. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

[champs1]

You did not step on any toes. I enjoy the discussion but you have me confused. If you are who you say, then you must coach a small division school. The area 1 large tourney only had 5 teams this year: North, Colonial Heights, T.A Dugger, Robinson, and Science Hill. Blountville was not involved. Holston just won the Small division and they and North both play in the same league with Blountville so obviously Blountville is not beating everybody by 20 and routinely winning conference championships. You just seem to think a lot of their coach and state you coach as well . It seems like you would know these things.

 

In principle I agree with everthing you said. If the county league teams are unhappy with their level of competition they need to get in the city league or focus hard on scheduling several non-conference games against those teams. Unicoi Co. is a great example of a team in the league that usually finishes last in middle school league play and develops and moves on after taking their lumps. When they get to high school, they don't play Science Hill, Dobyns Bennett, etc. And they win big time in their AA basketball league.

 

Colonial Heights made the move because they felt most years they could compete with Vance, Robinson,Sevier, and Science Hill. The feeling was it would help South compete against the city High Schools when the kids got there. I think that is your whole point.

 

Whether this would be good for Bluff City, Blountville, or Holston I don't know. Holston seems to enjoy winning that small division and I don't blame them. One other point would be Colonial Heights athletes have very succesful pee wee programs in football and basketball much more like these city teams. They may be more prepared for that level of play by middle school than the other county teams. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

 

 

My mistake. I thought I was posting on the girls sites.

 

I think we agree on the fact that you are only as good as who you play.

[crawdad]

My mistake. I thought I was posting on the girls sites.

 

I think we agree on the fact that you are only as good as who you play.

 

 

LOL!!! /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> I knew something was up! You're right on now. Blountville's girls are always top shelf! They would definitely be better off in a better league!

[area1guy]

Back to the original topic.....a more reasonable cutoff for 3 divisions would be 125 or less as small, 126 to 300 as medium, and 300+ as large. If you have a limited number of large schools, then they should combine sections to have more of a consolidated super large championship.

 

Who at TMSSAA needs to hear these suggestions?

[hopalot]

TMSAA is the one who sets the limit on the number of games we can play. What I would like to see happen is for all of the schools to play in the same conference that their high school plays in. At first, this would hurt teams like Blountville and Holston. However, in the long run, it would help them to develop into better teams. That is the ultimate goal for the middle school programs. We are supposed to be developing players for the high school programs. This would also cut down on the amount of travel time for everyone.

 

The Coach at Blountville is one of the best middle school coaches in the area. However, as a coach, it is hard to make a team step up to the next level when they are already beating most of the other teams in their conference by 20.

 

 

 

As far as playing "in the same conference as their high school plays in", what about schools that have more than 1 feeder school? Enrollments would still be skewed. I understand the idea, just dont think it's as practical as it might sound.JMO