East Section Small School Enrollment Cutoff Goofup

[area1guy]

Here are some of Blountville's Girls scores....

12/15 Blountville 46 Home Holston Valley 4

1/24 Blountville 43 Conf. Tourn. Rogersville 6

 

Seems like one of the "best" coaches should be able to manage a game better than this. I think Blountville got what they deserve. How can you beat someone that bad?

[sshsvbdad09]

As far as playing "in the same conference as their high school plays in", what about schools that have more than 1 feeder school? Enrollments would still be skewed. I understand the idea, just dont think it's as practical as it might sound.JMO

 

Agree 100%. Sullivan (150 students) and Colonial Heights (>500 6-8) both feed South. Mary Hughes, Holston Valley, and Bluff City all feed East. MH & HV are very small. Blountville & Holston feed Central and are similar in size and may be able to handle the bigger feeder schools, but the little county schools cannot. (See, for example, above Blountville-HV score.) The only way this makes sense is to split into large and small divisions. Even then you still have only one "school" feeding the largest HS in the area with 2X the number of 8th-graders as any other middle school in the area.

 

All the comments seem to be from area 1, so the other areas must not have an issue with current large-small split. A previous post encouraged these areas to support a split into 3 divisions, but see nothing here from them that does so.

[hopalot]

I am all for 3 divisions. Here is the catch to going to 3. Not enough schools are members of TMSAA. There are still many schools/school systems that are not members. Knox County is an example of where no schools are allowed to be members. Will this cause some districts to have less than 4 teams? Will it put a burden of more, longer travel?

 

By going to 3 there is less discrepancy within a class, but someone will always be the smallest school in the large division or the largest school in the small division.

[champs1]

As far as playing "in the same conference as their high school plays in", what about schools that have more than 1 feeder school? Enrollments would still be skewed. I understand the idea, just dont think it's as practical as it might sound.JMO

 

 

I agree. It would definitely be tough to work out. I think the first thing that would have to be done is to have large and small divisions, maybe even a middle division.

[champs1]

Here are some of Blountville's Girls scores....

12/15 Blountville 46 Home Holston Valley 4

1/24 Blountville 43 Conf. Tourn. Rogersville 6

 

Seems like one of the "best" coaches should be able to manage a game better than this. I think Blountville got what they deserve. How can you beat someone that bad?

 

 

Sometimes that is easier said than done. In one of our games this year, we knew that the other team was really having a tough year, so we pulled up several 7th graders in hopes of keeping the score under control. We played everybody we had, did not play a starter after the 1st quarter, and played all 7th graders most of the second half. We played several kids out of position, trying to keep the score down. By the end of the game, we had a 5 playing the point in hopes that the other team would steal the ball. We sit down in a zone the whole game, did not press, and the whole second half we told the kids to shoot nothing but three pointers, in hopes that the lower percentage shots would not fall. We also told them that they had to make several passes before taking any shots. Now keep in mind that we had post players playing the perimeter.

We still beat the other team by 51 points. The other coach shook my hand and said that he realized that we had done all we could to help him out.

The only other thing we could have done to keep the score down is to come down and play keep-away. I have seen that done before and it is more detrimental to the other team than just making it hard for your team to score and hoping that they miss the shots.

It is a tough situation to be in. I don't think it is fair to blame a coach if his/her team is that much better than the other team.

Now if you are up by that much and still pressing, or have your starters in that is a different story.

[pancon]

Here are some of Blountville's Girls scores....

12/15 Blountville 46 Home Holston Valley 4

1/24 Blountville 43 Conf. Tourn. Rogersville 6

 

Seems like one of the "best" coaches should be able to manage a game better than this. I think Blountville got what they deserve. How can you beat someone that bad?

 

 

As far as the Coach and his management...The starters were limited to less than 2 quarters, and typically the coach

does not and did not press after a 20 point lead. The roster had 14/15 girls (half 7th graders) and every girl played and nearly every girl scored. I know the coach personally and believe me, it could have been a lot worse.

....Now, how do you back off...and still compete in the Area? Tough to do!

 

...got what they deserved? If they would have got what they deserved, they would have advanced to the state sectional! Blountville works hard at building a solid program. Science Hill, Unicoi, and the likes of Blountville have coaches that go the extra mile to ensure that their programs are top shelf. Consider the team camps during the summer, consider the volunteers that help guide these girls through tough summer leagues and then you'll understand why they are successful. Blountville played better competition during the summer than they faced during the season in their conference. Now then consider Rogersville or Holston Valley either one...what did they do to prepare?

I didn't see the likes of those teams playing in Johnson City??? For the Blountville girls not making it to the State, I actually put some of the blame on the County schools that did very little to make themselves better and then in return, making the league better! Blountville should join the City League.

Furthermore, the TMSAA still placed Blountville in the LARGE school division when they should have been in the SMALL school division. Blountvilles' enrollment for the eight grade is around 140! I don't think they got what they deserved. For the boys team, I would have been very upset, because several small schools went to the Small School Area tourney...but not the Blountville boys. They played Holston within 6 points and Mary Hughes within 2!

Sorry guys...you don't get to go to an AREA tourney. TMSAA screwed up! Period.

 

Lastly, before I get off my soapbox, the county schools only field one team a piece...a boys and a girls...no 7th grade league, therefore, you better be a pretty good 7th grader, or you will sit until the easy games. Talk about a rebuilding process.

The city league has 7th and 8th grade teams. The 7th grade city teams have an entire schedule plus tourney.

ANY county school with small enrollment should be very proud to compete. Large County schools then ALWAYS go to a city venue and play in the Large School Area Tourney...This is not fair...it needs to be alternated or played at a neutral court. This year, the Middle 8 played at Sevier during the season, then in their Conference tournament, and then what the heck...the Area Tourney too...sad!!

[crawdad]

As far as the Coach and his management...The starters were limited to less than 2 quarters, and typically the coach

does not and did not press after a 20 point lead. The roster had 14/15 girls (half 7th graders) and every girl played and nearly every girl scored. I know the coach personally and believe me, it could have been a lot worse.

....Now, how do you back off...and still compete in the Area? Tough to do!

 

...got what they deserved? If they would have got what they deserved, they would have advanced to the state sectional! Blountville works hard at building a solid program. Science Hill, Unicoi, and the likes of Blountville have coaches that go the extra mile to ensure that their programs are top shelf. Consider the team camps during the summer, consider the volunteers that help guide these girls through tough summer leagues and then you'll understand why they are successful. Blountville played better competition during the summer than they faced during the season in their conference. Now then consider Rogersville or Holston Valley either one...what did they do to prepare?

I didn't see the likes of those teams playing in Johnson City??? For the Blountville girls not making it to the State, I actually put some of the blame on the County schools that did very little to make themselves better and then in return, making the league better! Blountville should join the City League.

Furthermore, the TMSAA still placed Blountville in the LARGE school division when they should have been in the SMALL school division. Blountvilles' enrollment for the eight grade is around 140! I don't think they got what they deserved. For the boys team, I would have been very upset, because several small schools went to the Small School Area tourney...but not the Blountville boys. They played Holston within 6 points and Mary Hughes within 2!

Sorry guys...you don't get to go to an AREA tourney. TMSAA screwed up! Period.

 

Lastly, before I get off my soapbox, the county schools only field one team a piece...a boys and a girls...no 7th grade league, therefore, you better be a pretty good 7th grader, or you will sit until the easy games. Talk about a rebuilding process.

The city league has 7th and 8th grade teams. The 7th grade city teams have an entire schedule plus tourney.

ANY county school with small enrollment should be very proud to compete. Large County schools then ALWAYS go to a city venue and play in the Large School Area Tourney...This is not fair...it needs to be alternated or played at a neutral court. This year, the Middle 8 played at Sevier during the season, then in their Conference tournament, and then what the heck...the Area Tourney too...sad!!

 

Quit whining! 10 years ago we didn't even have these tournaments,area and sectional. All there was to play for were season ending conference tournaments. I realize everyone wants to see their school and their kids be crowned champions, but that's not the way it works. Be glad TMSAA has 2 divisions,TSSAA only has 3 for crying out loud. If you don't like playing Holston Valley do something about it. Join the city league like Colonial Heights. But get ready for some big whuppins. Science Hill's boys would have beaten Holston or Mary Hughes, or Blountville by 50 or more if they chose to. This theory of playing up to make your team better is ONLY valid if you are competitive. If you are way out-matched,your kids confidence will be destroyed and they will not be in game situations to learn anything except humiliation and discouragement! /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

We won the boys sectional at Colonial Heights PLAYING IN THE COUNTY LEAGUE, playing Holston Valley and playing Sevier, Robinson and Science Hill out of conference. That team played the area tournament at Sevier. It is a great venue. The Chargers were 25-1, beating Science Hill and Sevier twice each and Robertsville of Oak Ridge, all larger schools. My point is : regardless of other opinions posted here, it doesn't matter who you play or where, big schools or small, at their gym or at neutral sites, IF YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH YOU CAN WIN!

[champs1]

As far as the Coach and his management...The starters were limited to less than 2 quarters, and typically the coach

does not and did not press after a 20 point lead. The roster had 14/15 girls (half 7th graders) and every girl played and nearly every girl scored. I know the coach personally and believe me, it could have been a lot worse.

....Now, how do you back off...and still compete in the Area? Tough to do!

 

...got what they deserved? If they would have got what they deserved, they would have advanced to the state sectional! Blountville works hard at building a solid program. Science Hill, Unicoi, and the likes of Blountville have coaches that go the extra mile to ensure that their programs are top shelf. Consider the team camps during the summer, consider the volunteers that help guide these girls through tough summer leagues and then you'll understand why they are successful. Blountville played better competition during the summer than they faced during the season in their conference. Now then consider Rogersville or Holston Valley either one...what did they do to prepare?

I didn't see the likes of those teams playing in Johnson City??? For the Blountville girls not making it to the State, I actually put some of the blame on the County schools that did very little to make themselves better and then in return, making the league better! Blountville should join the City League.

Furthermore, the TMSAA still placed Blountville in the LARGE school division when they should have been in the SMALL school division. Blountvilles' enrollment for the eight grade is around 140! I don't think they got what they deserved. For the boys team, I would have been very upset, because several small schools went to the Small School Area tourney...but not the Blountville boys. They played Holston within 6 points and Mary Hughes within 2!

Sorry guys...you don't get to go to an AREA tourney. TMSAA screwed up! Period.

 

Lastly, before I get off my soapbox, the county schools only field one team a piece...a boys and a girls...no 7th grade league, therefore, you better be a pretty good 7th grader, or you will sit until the easy games. Talk about a rebuilding process.

The city league has 7th and 8th grade teams. The 7th grade city teams have an entire schedule plus tourney.

ANY county school with small enrollment should be very proud to compete. Large County schools then ALWAYS go to a city venue and play in the Large School Area Tourney...This is not fair...it needs to be alternated or played at a neutral court. This year, the Middle 8 played at Sevier during the season, then in their Conference tournament, and then what the heck...the Area Tourney too...sad!!

 

 

I too know the coach at Blountville personally. You are correct. He is a GREAT coach and person.

[VicKing]

also please allow me to correct some misinformation posted eariler. TMSAA does not place any school anywhere in east Tennessee in large or small divisions. Each Area coaches/principals divide their own schools to meet their needs in their Areas. In fact the divisions are NOT equal when Area 1 is compared to the remaining three Areas. It is close but not equal. We are currently looksing at options for future play that will bring things to a more equal footing without doing away with traditional local/conference/county play that is important to many schools. AND it is NOT easy to do.

[area1guy]

Mr. King, thank you for the reply. I do beleive TMSAA should look at ways to increase parity, especially for the smaller schools. There is no solution for competing against the largest of large schools, but that is not a good reason for a more competitive situation to be installed at the lower enrollment levels.

[crawdad]

also please allow me to correct some misinformation posted eariler. TMSAA does not place any school anywhere in east Tennessee in large or small divisions. Each Area coaches/principals divide their own schools to meet their needs in their Areas. In fact the divisions are NOT equal when Area 1 is compared to the remaining three Areas. It is close but not equal. We are currently looksing at options for future play that will bring things to a more equal footing without doing away with traditional local/conference/county play that is important to many schools. AND it is NOT easy to do.

 

 

Thanks for the information. I for one am very appreciative of your efforts to give our middle school athletes a playoff format/experience. For many of them it will be the crowning achievement of their athletic careers. Our family thoroughly enjoyed our 3 trips to the sectionals. No matter what you do, someone always feels the system wasn't fair. THANK YOU to TMSAA!!!

[pancon]

also please allow me to correct some misinformation posted eariler. TMSAA does not place any school anywhere in east Tennessee in large or small divisions. Each Area coaches/principals divide their own schools to meet their needs in their Areas. In fact the divisions are NOT equal when Area 1 is compared to the remaining three Areas. It is close but not equal. We are currently looksing at options for future play that will bring things to a more equal footing without doing away with traditional local/conference/county play that is important to many schools. AND it is NOT easy to do.

 

 

My apologies, I assumed, and shouldn't have evidently that the TMSAA would be the governing body that verified enrollment and placed the teams in their respective Large/Small divisions. I will also reiterate that the structure set forth by the TMSAA is a great way to prepare these kids for the next level and give them a goal to attain. I understand how complex it is to structure tournaments to enable fairness to all.

I'm glad we have what we have.