Playing "Not To Win"

[Rocking Chair]

I'm playing devil's advocate. By no means I am taking sides. Suppose my team finished second in district 5-AAA in the regular season with my only two losses being to the regular season champ by an average of 20 points and my overall record is 22-6. But in a non-dstrict game i beat the 6-AAA champ by 15. Going into the district tourney I look at my best way in advancing to the state. One and three seeds from the same district are in the same bracket in the region so I really don't want to be in the same bracket as our reg. season champ. The best way is to win the dist. tourney against the reg. season champ. Then you go down to the worst-case scenarios. If we lose in the semis, is it our best interest to win the consolation and probably be in the same bracket as our reg. season champ or finish fourth being in the opposite bracket of reg. seson champ and take our chances with a team we had beaten by 15 earlier in the year. If we win the semis we will be in the opposite bracket anyway if we play the champ. But if we win the semis and the champ gets upset, do we win the title or finish second to stay out of their bracket pending on the consolation outcome. Things that make you go /huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" />

 

That is what a lot of coaches go through. Right or wrong.

 

I know the scenario's all to well. And it's a shame that this system warrants coaches to take such measures, but I guess if your not doing it you losing out. Kind of sad to me. But when in Rome do as the Romans do is the old saying.

 

Here's a scenario that could arise and I'm sure it has somewhere. In the semi's of the dist. the #1 is upset by say #5..a team that has pulled off 2 major upsets. And then #5 meets the same team in the Regions and loses by say 20. That's a hard pill to swallow but that's the way the system is and I for one and not a fan.

 

Tuesday night LA boys and Upperman boys will be playing for the dist. championship in 7AA. They split in regular season and this game is for all the marbles. I didn't see the 1st game but the 2nd one was nothing but a knockdown dragout kind of game. And this one has the potential to be even better. How much better would it be if only the winner advanced ?? That's what I'm talking about. You better bring your A game every night or you will probably be going home. But don't worry if either team gets down b/c they are going to advance. WHOOPEEEE

 

To me that takes away from the game. In HS Football you lose go home period!!

[KeeperFan15]

I knew of a coach like that in soccer. Played to loose so that he would end up where he wanted in a tourny bracket. Did it a couple of times. Got the snot beat out of him both times with that strategy. Cost his team a shot at a state title two years in a row. Fortunately, he is not coaching anymore.

[ldcoach]

I just looked at the sample brackets and it appears to me that that the new pairings have some changes. The 1st and 2nd place district winners play at home for the first round of the regional against the 3rd and 4th from the other district. These two winners then play in the second round which would conceivably pit 1st and 2nd from the same district against each other in the second round of the regional. I had not noticed this change but it would certainly play a role in the thinking that is up for discussion. I guess the feeling that this should pretty much guarantee a 1st or 2nd from each district in the regional final. Hmmm!

[Purple & Gold Standard]

I would be more than disappointed in the coach of my son's basketball team if he instructed his team to lose or not play as hard as they can or emphasize the point that it doesn't matter if they were to win or not....

 

My son has been preached to by his coach to give 100% effort, to leave it all on the floor....Purposely losing to gain an advantage for seeding purposes goes against all he has been taught...I would hope that the coach would have more respect for the game than that...

 

I would also hope that if that were to happen the coach would be fired....Period.... /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[Rocking Chair]

I just looked at the sample brackets and it appears to me that that the new pairings have some changes. The 1st and 2nd place district winners play at home for the first round of the regional against the 3rd and 4th from the other district. These two winners then play in the second round which would conceivably pit 1st and 2nd from the same district against each other in the second round of the regional. I had not noticed this change but it would certainly play a role in the thinking that is up for discussion. I guess the feeling that this should pretty much guarantee a 1st or 2nd from each district in the regional final. Hmmm!

 

I believe they made that change a couple years ago but I could be 100% wrong.

 

I would be more than disappointed in the coach of my son's basketball team if he instructed his team to lose or not play as hard as they can or emphasize the point that it doesn't matter if they were to win or not....

 

My son has been preached to by his coach to give 100% effort, to leave it all on the floor....Purposely losing to gain an advantage for seeding purposes goes against all he has been taught...I would hope that the coach would have more respect for the game than that...

 

I would also hope that if that were to happen the coach would be fired....Period.... /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

I agree with you P and G standard but proving it would be all together a different story.

[gatorbillmsu]

I know the scenario's all to well. And it's a shame that this system warrants coaches to take such measures, but I guess if your not doing it you losing out. Kind of sad to me. But when in Rome do as the Romans do is the old saying.

 

Here's a scenario that could arise and I'm sure it has somewhere. In the semi's of the dist. the #1 is upset by say #5..a team that has pulled off 2 major upsets. And then #5 meets the same team in the Regions and loses by say 20. That's a hard pill to swallow but that's the way the system is and I for one and not a fan.

 

Tuesday night LA boys and Upperman boys will be playing for the dist. championship in 7AA. They split in regular season and this game is for all the marbles. I didn't see the 1st game but the 2nd one was nothing but a knockdown dragout kind of game. And this one has the potential to be even better. How much better would it be if only the winner advanced ?? That's what I'm talking about. You better bring your A game every night or you will probably be going home. But don't worry if either team gets down b/c they are going to advance. WHOOPEEEE

 

To me that takes away from the game. In HS Football you lose go home period!!

 

 

I grew up in a place where the tourney was "one and done" from the very beginning.

 

Our District had 3 teams that were capable of winning the State Tournament every year. This was the case from the time I was in 6th grade until about 6 years after I graduated.

 

There was a few years where 2 and even 3 of those teams were down a bit, but they are right back up near the top again.

 

I think it creates great atmosphere. It creates great games. There is a HS arena back home that seats approx 5000 people. that place was filled up MANY years for District or regional tourneys!! Good times.

 

that being said. . . . I am going to enjoy the tourney here. It is still good times!! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[LiLolme]

In the view of some parents and fans;Their coach always plays "not to win" ( At least not the way the fans and parents would like for them to.) /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[ParisRiverRat]

You are naive if you don't think this happens and nobody ever knows about it...If you know that you are going to play again. why show your whole hand? I would hate to be undefeated at this time of the year, you can lose alot from a loss, does that mean it was intentional, NO, but sometimes it does more for your kids than winning...intentionally losing by playing the JV squad or telling your kids to lose is totally different, and I would be schocked if this is happening. just my 2 cents

 

Thank goodness that sectional deal that the tssaa tried for a couple of years in the late 1990s no longer occurs, or it would be even worse...This is a problem that the T$$AA has caused by allowing teams to lose so many times in the post season. While normally the best teams do come out of each sectional, it does not allow for the Cinderella story. There is no way that a #6 seed in the district tournament is going to beat a team 2 or 3 times to keep advancing, but it could happen 1 time...there lies the problem.

 

 

Does a district championship mean more or a birth in the state tournament? I know that I remember the years of going to the state tournament, but I certainly don't remember the district championships....

[Rocking Chair]

I grew up in a place where the tourney was "one and done" from the very beginning.

 

Our District had 3 teams that were capable of winning the State Tournament every year. This was the case from the time I was in 6th grade until about 6 years after I graduated.

 

There was a few years where 2 and even 3 of those teams were down a bit, but they are right back up near the top again.

 

I think it creates great atmosphere. It creates great games. There is a HS arena back home that seats approx 5000 people. that place was filled up MANY years for District or regional tourneys!! Good times.

 

that being said. . . . I am going to enjoy the tourney here. It is still good times!! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

Yes sir gatorbill I am going to enjoy them as well. I love this time of year when all the tournaments start, especially March Madness. But I think it would be a better tournament if they played it like you said 'ONE AND DONE". That way everyone would be giving their all to win every game. I think it was last year or the year before Jackson Co. and Clarkrange girls played 5 times and the last being the State Championship game. That just makes no sense to me. The winner of the 3rd game should be the only team advancing. Just look at the movie "Hoosiers".

Now that's basketball!!!

[Mr knowitall]

Yes sir gatorbill I am going to enjoy them as well. I love this time of year when all the tournaments start, especially March Madness. But I think it would be a better tournament if they played it like you said 'ONE AND DONE". That way everyone would be giving their all to win every game. I think it was last year or the year before Jackson Co. and Clarkrange girls played 5 times and the last being the State Championship game. That just makes no sense to me. The winner of the 3rd game should be the only team advancing. Just look at the movie "Hoosiers".

Now that's basketball!!!

 

I saw this done in Softball in Chatt at the 10under NSA A tourney. They took the winners of the pool game to the upper bracket and the losers to the lower bracket. I know a team lost both pool games on purpose, pitching girls who had never even thrown before. That put them in the bracket with the weaker teams. They cruised to the finals then won the NSA National East National Title. This was a very good team that might have won it straight up....but years later it is still in my mind. I guess you could put an astrek by it /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[gatorbillmsu]

Does a district championship mean more or a birth in the state tournament? I know that I remember the years of going to the state tournament, but I certainly don't remember the district championships....

 

 

 

 

This is where it would change if it went to a one and done. District Championships would mean SO much more. You would remember them. My high school won 2 out of the three District Championships in my 3 years of HS. We lost my Sophomore year to the team across town that won that ended up winning the State Championship. Either of our two schools would have come out of that district being favored to win. But only one makes it.

 

The next two years we lost in the quarterfinals and the semi finals. Great basketball.

 

With a "one and done", the districts are the beginning of the "State Tournament".

 

I have no problem with the way things are done here, I enjoy it for what it is. But I really liked the system I grew up with.

 

 

 

Play ball.

[Rocking Chair]

You are naive if you don't think this happens and nobody ever knows about it...If you know that you are going to play again. why show your whole hand? I would hate to be undefeated at this time of the year, you can lose alot from a loss, does that mean it was intentional, NO, but sometimes it does more for your kids than winning...intentionally losing by playing the JV squad or telling your kids to lose is totally different, and I would be schocked if this is happening. just my 2 cents

 

Thank goodness that sectional deal that the tssaa tried for a couple of years in the late 1990s no longer occurs, or it would be even worse...This is a problem that the T$$AA has caused by allowing teams to lose so many times in the post season. While normally the best teams do come out of each sectional, it does not allow for the Cinderella story. There is no way that a #6 seed in the district tournament is going to beat a team 2 or 3 times to keep advancing, but it could happen 1 time...there lies the problem.

 

 

Does a district championship mean more or a birth in the state tournament? I know that I remember the years of going to the state tournament, but I certainly don't remember the district championships....

 

 

I missed this paris. This is why I don't like this system in a nutshell. It takes away the "Cinderella" story. There is nothing I love better than to see a Cinderella win it all. And this system pretty much limits that from happening. Like you said paris a #6 seed probably won't beat that #1 or #2 seed 2 or 3 times and keep advancing. Sooner or later the better team will prevail. But on a given night they may surprise somebody and that's the beauty of it.