Supreme Court

[fiftyfifty]

I have taught in the same public school for almost 31 years. Luckily there are no private schools in the area. If there were I and the school would be missing out on a lot of very good kids...and they would be missing a great opportunity to see all sides of life, both good and bad.

 

I read your two posts Coach. I was wondering about your statement that privates have the same problems that publics have. I agree, they do to some degree. If that is so, how are children in private schools missing an opportunity to see all sides of life. I have multiple children attending private schools and I can assure you that they are seeing all sides of life. They could be seeing this more than the average student in most public schools due to their massive volunteering while attaining their education. At Father Ryan, we have had some great students from Lawrence County and I have no doubt about the quality of people living there. One of the greats is a former Bishop. That would be Bishop Niedergeses, born and raised in Lawrence Co. He is one of the finest men I have ever known. Everybody remember when you classify private schools in a big lump that Catholic schools were not started as a response to public schools and do not exist today because of that. They have been in existence for hundreds of years before there was any sort of public school system, or even a country called the United States. We exist as a matter of expressing our Catholic faith, not as a protest or way out of public schools. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[fiftyfifty]

I do have a statement about administrative led prayer in public schools. Just for a minute, pretend that you live in India. And then pretend that you attend school there in a 99.9% Hindu school. Now further pretend that every day there is a Hindu prayer led by the teacher, principal, whatever. As a high school child, I wonder if you as a Christian would feel pressured to fall in, maybe hide you true feelings, etc. I think many would. (I am using Hindu only as an example with all due respect) I am all for prayer, say prayers every day myself, but I also feel compassion for anyone that is not Christian to not force them into a situation that makes them unconfortable, or even bitter toward Christians. I never read anywhere where the Lord forced his way of life on anyone, it was always a choice. Nobody is stopping any students from praying at school. We all know that you can pray anytime you feel like it, no one can control that. I have personally experienced being a minority at school and have personally witnessed some very embarrassing moments due to school personnel directing how and what praying shoiuld take place. Even as a Christian there are great differences in how things should be done. One of the most pointed remarks in the Gospels concerning prayer is when the Lord said, go to your room, shut the door, and pray, and your father will hear you. The Gospels also say when two or three are gathered in my name, there I am also. But nowhere does it say, if someone is in your midst that is not Christian, ignore their feelings cause right is might. That is not the direction of the Gospels. Oh yes, you might say any student that does not agree can go somewhere else. But is that correct? Does this address those students who are unconfortable about a prayer led by someone in authority that he or she may not agree with. Doesn't every single individual have the right to not feel pressure, or ridicule for being different? I think they do and I also think there is no method to ensure every student rights other than to follow the current law. Oh I know, many don't, they do what they think is right, sort of fighting for the Lord. There have been many periods in history where this kind of thought prevailed and it led to nothing but diaster. I find it strange that anyone would cite the founding fathers as to what they thought or how this should be handled. As a people, do we not have more and better knowledge and experience as to what the right thing to do is in this situation. There is alot to consider to this question and quick solutions or if the law changed tomorrow, what form of prayer or who would decide what the proper prayer is. You, me, I don't want that and don't think many other people would either if they really looked at this deeply. PS I recently read that a school district administrators in another state, not Tennessee, made the statement that they would ensure that no student would be harrassed, ridiculed, or picked on in any way if they chose not to participate in school prayer. We all have attended school at some point or another. I was wondering how in the world any administration could make this promise and then keep it. It would be impossible. Even if verbal abuse could be controlled, non verbal as we all know, the stares, pointing, laughing, avoiding can be extremely cruel, all because someone is something other than Christian, is this the Lords desire. I don't think so.

[PHargis]

I read your two posts Coach. I was wondering about your statement that privates have the same problems that publics have. I agree, they do to some degree. If that is so, how are children in private schools missing an opportunity to see all sides of life. I have multiple children attending private schools and I can assure you that they are seeing all sides of life. They could be seeing this more than the average student in most public schools due to their massive volunteering while attaining their education. At Father Ryan, we have had some great students from Lawrence County and I have no doubt about the quality of people living there. One of the greats is a former Bishop. That would be Bishop Niedergeses, born and raised in Lawrence Co. He is one of the finest men I have ever known. Everybody remember when you classify private schools in a big lump that Catholic schools were not started as a response to public schools and do not exist today because of that. They have been in existence for hundreds of years before there was any sort of public school system, or even a country called the United States. We exist as a matter of expressing our Catholic faith, not as a protest or way out of public schools. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Good point stu and I hope Coacht can respond, but to get back to the topic, "could be seeing this more" in the coaching field with this Coach from Lincoln or Franklin County, nobody knows and in a school in small town Tennessee its done a different way in Sports and thats more by example and peer group. And to get back to the topic, the ability to do this is under assault and this fine coach "regardless of faith" is questioning the reasonableness of him not being able in some way to set an example to the players on his team. It is not only there but many athletic teams all over the state in both Public and Private Schools do volunteer work in Boys and Girls Clubs, Veteren's homes, hospitals, nursing homes, children's homes and on and on and it is generally under the auspices of some good Coach with the help of the parents of a great group of Athletes that make it work. These coaches and student/athletes and parents don't need any other incentive to do the work except a Coach/Teacher thinks its the right thing to do no matter what his faith is or his student/athletes faith. That Coach may be of any religious pursuasion and might, objectively be in Church with many of the athletes there in a small town. So hopefully we are back on subject again and CoachT will respond if need be.

[fiftyfifty]

You've got a point, but I would argue that Jesus was perfect, and would not be influenced by the unsaved. My kids are far from perfect, and need shelter from all the garbage that the public school system pushes on them.

 

 

Dadoffour, I am sure you are a good and faithful person. But I would comment on your statement about Jesus not being influenced by the unsaved. He absolutely would have been influenced in that he would show compassion toward them. He spent alot of time with sinners of all types, so it certainly as fully human had an influence on him. Five-Sport stated something toward the unsaved as associating that with the public school system. I am almost certain that he didn't mean to imply that the public school system is full of unsaved souls. That is certainly not the case as there are a multitude of good and faithful students in public schools of all religions. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[fiftyfifty]

Good point stu and I hope Coacht can respond, but to get back to the topic, "could be seeing this more" in the coaching field with this Coach from Lincoln or Franklin County, nobody knows and in a school in small town Tennessee its done a different way in Sports and thats more by example and peer group. And to get back to the topic, the ability to do this is under assault and this fine coach "regardless of faith" is questioning the reasonableness of him not being able in some way to set an example to the players on his team. It is not only there but many athletic teams all over the state in both Public and Private Schools do volunteer work in Boys and Girls Clubs, Veteren's homes, hospitals, nursing homes, children's homes and on and on and it is generally under the auspices of some good Coach with the help of the parents of a great group of Athletes that make it work. These coaches and student/athletes and parents don't need any other incentive to do the work except a Coach/Teacher thinks its the right thing to do no matter what his faith is or his student/athletes faith. That Coach may be of any religious pursuasion and might, objectively be in Church with many of the athletes there in a small town. So hopefully we are back on subject again and CoachT will respond if need be.

 

I would question as to students not needing any other incentive other than coaches/teachers thinking it is the right thing to do. I would think that this incentive would start years before any coach or teacher ever met the children, in other words incentives to do this type of volunteering starts with parents and church. I would also question as to whether the majority of the volunteer work in schools across the state is generally under the auspices of some coach, probably more often than not, it is other people. And I would question as to whether there is any basis to believe that athletes do more volunteer work than any other students, it may be that they just gain more attention from the public as a result of their volunteer work. I am not attempting to promote anything or persuade anybody, just stating my thoughts. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[N2DEEP]

With all this talk about the Supreme Court deciding things like who may pray where and with whom, I wonder how many of us are thinking about the appointment of Supreme Court justices, who does it (president), and what type of justice will President Obama appoint when the time comes. Liberal or conservative? Which would be more likely to support freedom of prayer or do more to supress it? I wonder how many thought of this sort of thing when voting. Is a $ all we should think of when voting? It sure makes me think.

[PHargis]

I would question as to students not needing any other incentive other than coaches/teachers thinking it is the right thing to do. I would think that this incentive would start years before any coach or teacher ever met the children, in other words incentives to do this type of volunteering starts with parents and church. I would also question as to whether the majority of the volunteer work in schools across the state is generally under the auspices of some coach, probably more often than not, it is other people. And I would question as to whether there is any basis to believe that athletes do more volunteer work than any other students, it may be that they just gain more attention from the public as a result of their volunteer work. I am not attempting to promote anything or persuade anybody, just stating my thoughts. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Really getting back on topic and to what this hearing before the Supreme Court is about. Your thoughts are good but the topic is allowing this coach toeven be around when the team prays and when trhe team does anything that is outside sports, maybe. Thats what the hearing is about and the topic.

[fiftyfifty]

Really getting back on topic and to what this hearing before the Supreme Court is about. Your thoughts are good but the topic is allowing this coach toeven be around when the team prays and when trhe team does anything that is outside sports, maybe. Thats what the hearing is about and the topic.

 

You need to re-read. Its about any administrative person leading the prayer. This includes all teachers, principals, doesn't matter whether they coach or not. It certainly is not about any team doing anything outside of sports or better stated outside of representing the school. They can do anything during their personal time as a team or individual including pray together or alone, thats their choice. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[5-Sport Dad]

The same kind of nonsense that is the subject of this thread...telling a coach he can't pray with his team. When my kids were in elementary they were in a respectable public school. A majority of the faculty were Christians, and cared more about teaching the children the 3 r's, and less about political correctness, etc. A lot of parents aren't as fortunate with their kids' schools, and that's a shame.

 

This is very true...for a lot of folks!

 

Dadoffour, I am sure you are a good and faithful person. But I would comment on your statement about Jesus not being influenced by the unsaved. He absolutely would have been influenced in that he would show compassion toward them. He spent alot of time with sinners of all types, so it certainly as fully human had an influence on him. Five-Sport stated something toward the unsaved as associating that with the public school system. I am almost certain that he didn't mean to imply that the public school system is full of unsaved souls. That is certainly not the case as there are a multitude of good and faithful students in public schools of all religions. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

To the contrary, my argument would be that we need more Christians in public schools. For that is where the 'fighting' ( /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> ) is most heavy, in my opinion (corporate prayer and Bible reading not part of the curriculum). The second biggest 'battlefield,' again, in my opinion, is in the government workplace (local, state and federal). Thank God he sent Jesus to show us, in the flesh, how to act on this earth, even though most of us do a poor job of imitating it.

 

Heck, even Congress opens with corporate prayer. That always gets me, but if it ain't Christian (asked in Jesus' name) it ain't gonna help us.

 

Y'all have a GREAT week...and ponder this:

 

Billy Graham's Prayer For Our Nation:

 

'Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values. We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. We have killed our unborn and called it choice. We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. We have neglected our children and called it building self esteem. We have abused power and called it politics. We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition. We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. Search us, Oh God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.'

 

Commentator Paul Harvey aired this prayer on his radio program, 'The Rest of the Story,' and received a larger response to this program than any other he has ever aired. With the Lord's help, may this prayer sweep over our nation and wholeheartedly become our desire so that we again can be called 'One nation under God.'

 

PS - Just so I can keep the peace and 'remain on-topic,' the Supreme Court doesn't follow the Supreme Judge, so they're not likely to get much right anyway. Pretty soon every mouth will confess and every knee will bow...and none of this will matter. God is not slack or slow, as we think in this world, but if I was unsaved I'd confess, repent, accept and pray, pray, pray!

[PHargis]

Very good post.

[BBallExtreme]

If your child's coach was Muslim or Hindu would you also want that coach to have the "right" to lead your Christian child in prayer? Or would you see it as him or her trying to impose their religion on your child?

[PHargis]

If your child's coach was Muslim or Hindu would you also want that coach to have the "right" to lead your Christian child in prayer? Or would you see it as him or her trying to impose their religion on your child?

Now that was the question or the comment I was interested in hearing and the response.