True Physical Women's Soccer

[Canesoverhere]

Sadly, not true. People, especially those in the limelight need to be accountable for their actions or their decisions not to act. In this case it fell into the extremes in both cases. For once, I am glad the media ran with it.

 

In as far as "win at all costs" well unfortunately that theory is about ten years outdated. One look at the economy and we now realize that type of mentality doesn't really work, it only gives the illusion.

 

I don't take it out on the ref on the field, they are powerless. I usually address it at a higher level. In this case, yes, an example should be made of all in play. If the officials at that game didn't see what was going on around the ball, they shouldn't be officiating.

 

It appears in the end we will disagree. You desire no accountability and I do. Ever so slowly, it appears it is starting to turn back away from the favor of the guilty.

[BigG]

My issue with the whole thing is that these "ladies" need to realize that whether they like it or not, they are a roll model for the younger players of this generation. One can't take the Charles Barkley "I'm not a roll model" stance (I suppose they actually can take that stance, but denying a reality doesn't take the reality away). There are already so few good athletes that our kids can emulate.

[SCN123]

The game should come under review. There should be appropriate consequences for the refs and coach(s) as well the player. I am glad I wasn't a parent of the girls on the opposing team. That would have been tough to sit back and accept or enjoy.

 

I wonder if that coach will have a difficult time recruiting in the future?

 

 

 

 

.

[socref1]

Sadly, not true. People, especially those in the limelight need to be accountable for their actions or their decisions not to act. In this case it fell into the extremes in both cases. For once, I am glad the media ran with it.

 

In as far as "win at all costs" well unfortunately that theory is about ten years outdated. One look at the economy and we now realize that type of mentality doesn't really work, it only gives the illusion.

 

I don't take it out on the ref on the field, they are powerless. I usually address it at a higher level. In this case, yes, an example should be made of all in play. If the officials at that game didn't see what was going on around the ball, they shouldn't be officiating.

 

It appears in the end we will disagree. You desire no accountability and I do. Ever so slowly, it appears it is starting to turn back away from the favor of the guilty.

 

 

We dont disagree on the dispicable acts. They were heinous and delt with, so why wont you let it go? Or are you on a one-person crusade to clean up all sports?. I am pointing out the hypocrisy perpetuated by the thought process you very espouse, since you are powerless as well. Referees have real power through the laws of the game. Assignors have real power by not assigning referees. Your only power is to choose not to pay your money to watch. I suppose if everyone boycotted the sport, then surely someone would take notice. Its people like you who sit back and point fingers, and lay blame when you need to look at your own misgivings. However I put it to you for high school this season - you want accountability, where is the accountability in that HS match I brought up where the player who pulled the hair got the red card. Is that enough? That was their last game, and her last HS game. And she is a very good player. Enough all ready.

[Canesoverhere]

Really?

 

So, when an official fails to uphold those laws or rules, what keeps them in line?

 

You seem to be a judge without penalties. Seems like a swimmer without water.

 

Sit tight.

[cnpitbull]

Just enjoying the debate...

[socref1]

Really?

 

So, when an official fails to uphold those laws or rules, what keeps them in line?

 

You seem to be a judge without penalties. Seems like a swimmer without water.

 

Sit tight.

 

The root cause was not the poor officiating or lack thereof. Penalties have been handed out (and some we do not know of yet I can assure you the match assignors will also weigh in). College officiating is very selective, at least in the major conferences. You need to let it go. There will always be a match where in your opinion, the officiating wasn't perfect, the coaching not perfect, the player execution not perfect. We live in an imperfect world. Soccer is a human endeavor, humans make mistakes. This will continue until the end of time. No one needs to be "made an example" of, since to do so would not deter the next person, or the next. That is like saying capital punishment will deter capital crimes, which you know it doesnt. Like I said earlier, move on, nothing to see here. Your opinion is noted, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter.

[h2odog]

"No one needs to be "made an example" of, since to do so would not deter the next person, or the next. That is like saying capital punishment will deter capital crimes, which you know it doesnt. Like I said earlier, move on, nothing to see here. Your opinion is noted, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter."

 

 

I was enjoying the debate as well until.........this ridiculous comment above. Let me put it this way, if there were no consequences, every crime would accelerate. On the field or off. You have said volumes, by putting yourself out as an above average ref and then say, just let it go. Why red card if it it would not deter the next person. You want someone with an opinion that differs from you to "just let it go". I feel, and I think many others feel, that this will not only deter this girl, this coach, this team and this ref, but will open the eyes of players, etc. in future events. Will bad sportsmanship continue, of course, but hopefully we never turn away and say, oh well, no big deal, it's just soccer. Oh well, lets not punish someone for a capital crime, it's just a life, it just doesn't matter. Oh my!!!!

[BigG]

"No one needs to be "made an example" of, since to do so would not deter the next person, or the next. That is like saying capital punishment will deter capital crimes, which you know it doesnt. Like I said earlier, move on, nothing to see here. Your opinion is noted, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter."

 

 

I was enjoying the debate as well until.........this ridiculous comment above. Let me put it this way, if there were no consequences, every crime would accelerate. On the field or off. You have said volumes, by putting yourself out as an above average ref and then say, just let it go. Why red card if it it would not deter the next person. You want someone with an opinion that differs from you to "just let it go". I feel, and I think many others feel, that this will not only deter this girl, this coach, this team and this ref, but will open the eyes of players, etc. in future events. Will bad sportsmanship continue, of course, but hopefully we never turn away and say, oh well, no big deal, it's just soccer. Oh well, lets not punish someone for a capital crime, it's just a life, it just doesn't matter. Oh my!!!!

 

While I probably would have stated it differently, I am with you on this.

 

Is the coach ultimately responsible for the behavior of the players? I believe so. Did he/she take action in disciplining the player? If I remember correctly, she was kicked off the team. Is that enough? I have known players to be charged criminally for actions that they have taken on the field towards another player. Should it be done in this case? Hard to tell on a 2 minute highlite clip, but I'm sure some lawyer would jump at the chance. Some of the stuff was pretty dirty and had nothing to do with soccer.

 

Should the refs be "punished"? I don't know if they need to be punished, but they certainly should have the game reviewed to see why they didn't see or address the multiple offenses.

 

And as far as not making an example out of this situation to deter other players from doing so, I say, if you don't think her actions justified that, then what would it take? These weren't typical "fouls".

 

I would be curious to know if this young lady had any other infractions of this magnitude in her career.

[hamlet7478]

soccerref--I am struggling with your logic. To boil it down, are you saying basically saying that we should let the process work itself out?

 

I'm with H20 dog on this one. The actions of the player from NM were exceptionally heinous. No one wants the game to go there. A very severe punishment is called for in this instance. All players and coaches must know that anything close to this activity will not be tolerated.

[CHAMPDDS]

Ready for this...there is actually a group on Facebook:

 

 

BAN ELIZABETH LAMBERT OF NEW MEXICO FROM COLLEGE SOCCER

 

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group ... 939&ref=nf

 

 

D

[socref1]

soccerref--I am struggling with your logic. To boil it down, are you saying basically saying that we should let the process work itself out?

 

I'm with H20 dog on this one. The actions of the player from NM were exceptionally heinous. No one wants the game to go there. A very severe punishment is called for in this instance. All players and coaches must know that anything close to this activity will not be tolerated.

 

 

Of course it will not be tolerated and she probably wont come back (for the spring season). It pains me to see the beautiful game tarnished this way. All have taken my reply out of context. The capital punishment analogy was misplaced, but crime does continue regardless because of human nature. Our own moral compass and knowledge of consequences keeps us right and for the most part, society as a whole. We are a society of law and order. The game is also one of law and order.

 

These heinous actions do bring down the game. I believe we all want the same thing, to have a beautiful game without these types of infractions. Players must be sent off for these actions but a send off alone will not deter this action in the future unfortunately. That is the sad reality as we are a forgetful species. If one really wants to deter this behavior, then criminal penalties must be considered. This is outside the LOTG. Pro hockey has cleaned up most of the fighting with criminal action, but it still occurs. I think what shocks people is that justice was not served by a red card, and now many are calling for some justice outside the LOTG, understandably. If the red card were given, this discussion is moot. The red card was given in the Powell West game and that is sufficient for the match. What penalties come after the match are outside the LOTG.

 

The LOTG do not ensure that such matters as violent conduct and hair pulling will never occur in the future unfortunately. Players will do bad things because they are human and referees are only human and will miss things. So it will slip through the cracks. But when it does slip, as it did here, what is the course of action that all will agree? What is the proper justice? This is not for us to say or debate on this forum. We lack full information, yet were obviously shocked by what we saw.

 

The LOTG are written so that little interference is made, and when the referee has to step in, he or she will under the full extent of Law 5. Its up to the coaches to instill fair play. Its up to the players to abide by sportsmanship. Do they? For the most part, yes. However the LOTG only provides that IF and when such unsporting actions occur, they are to be delt with swiftly and on the field by the referee. Now the referee could have prevented this situation by the bar he set. This will obviously be looked at. The crew won't be fired in all honesty. If anything, it is a teaching point, one for improvement.

 

Now there is sanctions such as 2 game bans, season, and lifetime bans (Zdane) but what good are these for players ending their careers? Violent conduct will continue unfortunately as long as people play the game. What will stop this behavior across the board in the future? Because it is sure to happen again and again, unless some additional saction or point of emphasis is brought up specifically at the scholastic level (e.g. permanent ban, criminal charges). However now the bar has been set for all to see. For now, it is up to the ref to deal with it with Law 5 or NFHS for high school to specify a new sanction (the HS law book is very thick).

 

Now if the referee does not deal with it, as in the BYU UM game, then it is up to the next level after the fact. This is not agreeable to some who want blood for blood. The school has dealt with it to the conferences satisfaction. The referee assigning body will surely have their say. This is the process. It will only work itself out if something positive comes from it. Now what about examining the context of the game that lead to this behavior?

 

I will not respond any further.