Growth of TN Lacrosse

[Redtwin]

According to Laxpower, there are now 33 teams in TN, up from 21 in 2005. It is particularly encouraging to see a large amount of this growth coming from public schools and schools in the Knoxville area. Something that irks me, however, is the fact that since 2005, Division I has grown by a whopping 1 team, while Division II has grown by 11 teams. This is particularly irritating when you have schools like Father Ryan and Webb Bell Buckle, schools that have fielded lacrosse teams for over a decade now, dropping down from Division I to Division II. While the overall growth of the game in Tennessee is very encouraging, something needs to be done to limit the amount of time a team spends in Division II before moving up to Division 1. There's no reason that the growth of the primary division of our state's lacrosse league should lag so far behind other states in the Southeast in terms of its expansion. I'd be curious to hear other input on this matter.

[lax5091]

I agree that the fact that division 1 has only grown by one makes no sense. But i dont think that if your in d2 long enough you get to move up. i believe that we should make the divisions even in number of teams. The state champion has the option to move up and replace the worst team. If they choose to stay in d2 that would be their decision but if they were to win again it would be automatic movement. The worst team in d1 would move down.

[Redtwin]

I agree that the fact that division 1 has only grown by one makes no sense. But i dont think that if your in d2 long enough you get to move up. i believe that we should make the divisions even in number of teams. The state champion has the option to move up and replace the worst team. If they choose to stay in d2 that would be their decision but if they were to win again it would be automatic movement. The worst team in d1 would move down.

 

Barring something very extreme, like a program closing down, teams should never be allowed to move down from Division I to Division II. Just because you have a bad year or two, doesn't mean you should get to go down to what is really a developmental league for new teams. It's completely uncompetitive and in contrast to what high school athletics should be teaching teenagers.

 

I like the idea of the DII champion moving up, but it should be a requirement. There could also be something like any team who wins 75% of their games over a three year period has to move up, or any team that plays in the state championship game for two consecutive years has to move up.

[lax5091]

i agree that moving down is the last thing that any team would want to do. but in some cases a team will have a ton of talent and move up after that talent has left and struggle. people dont get better by gettin steam rolled in the division. Im goin to use franklin as an example they were state champions. then they moved up and with some of their great players comin back they did alright. then they left, they changed coaches 2 or 3 times. which led to a 2 win season, yes they have a new coach and we about to see what he does for the team. if they were to have another 2 win season or something. im sure they wouldn mind steppin down into a "developmental" league and let another come up that may have put to work in to be a d1 program. I'm in no way trying to bash or belittle what the rebels have accomplished but i believe that they were one of the teams that kinda rushed their program into d1.

[Redtwin]

i agree that moving down is the last thing that any team would want to do. but in some cases a team will have a ton of talent and move up after that talent has left and struggle. people dont get better by gettin steam rolled in the division. Im goin to use franklin as an example they were state champions. then they moved up and with some of their great players comin back they did alright. then they left, they changed coaches 2 or 3 times. which led to a 2 win season, yes they have a new coach and we about to see what he does for the team. if they were to have another 2 win season or something. im sure they wouldn mind steppin down into a "developmental" league and let another come up that may have put to work in to be a d1 program. I'm in no way trying to bash or belittle what the rebels have accomplished but i believe that they were one of the teams that kinda rushed their program into d1.

 

I see your point. No one likes to get steam-rolled, and teams like MBA, MUS, and McCallie get more out of a good practice than pummeling a team like Franklin last year, but Franklin was competitive with MBA in 2008 and relatively competitive with Ravenwood in 2007. Teams like Farragut, Houston, CBHS,Ravenwood, and Webb who aren't perrennial powers have beaten the three teams that consistently dominate TN lacrosse. They may not win lots of state championships, but they can be competitive, and, as Ravenwood has proven, they can win a title. I'd be willing to bet that if Ryan, Webb, JP II, and Centennial, teams who have had programs for years, as well as newer schools with lots of resources like Baylor and Ensworth moved up in to Division 1, in any given year they'd go .500 give or take a few wins in Division 1, which wouldn't be bad. They could schedule out of state or Division II teams if they want to pad the win column. I bet Franklin goes .500 this year. I just think it would make TN lacrosse more competitive in general if we had more teams in Division I. Sort of rising tide raises all boats theory.

[lax5091]

yeah i think this season is gonna be an interesting one. just to see how some teams (in both divisions) have built up from last year.

[seeingthefield]

I have been in this state for a few years and this is how I see it. Lacrosse is growing but it could grow faster if more public and independent schools realized that there are other sports out there than football. Now there are obviosuly other factors that could help the sport grow (more coaches, officials, etc...). I played 3 sports in high school (not in TN) including football. In a lot of states football and lacrosse coaches work together, but TN there is this opposition to lacrosse - I don't get it. Lacrosse is the best thing that football players can do in the spring, it is better than running around in a circle. Look at Highland PArk in Texas. HAted Lax at first now they are Top 25 in Nation and still have great Football. If Texas can do it why can't we. Anyway I digress. Redtwin I think people like you (are you coaching?) knowledgeable people about lacrosse that are not coaching need to help the TSLA (become on the board). It is a lot to be a board member and a coach. I think it is great that lacrosse is not part of the machine (TSSAA) - a worn down rusted machine at that. At times things get wierd in those TSLA meetings. Why was JP2 allowed to stay down in D2? I think that is more of a travesty than Webb-Bell Buckle moving down. If D1 doesn't grow no one will want to stay (i.e. Webb and maybe others in the future). I can see Baylor and Ensworht possibly moving up next year, which would put D1 at 12, but I agree there needs to be some terms.

For example if you win D2 or in the D2 final 2 years in a row - move up. Have to stay up 3 years before petitioning to move down. People have to remember that a .500 season in D1 is pretty good. Let's be honet McCallie, MUS, and MBA should win it every year. Will they not always (Ravenwood recently), but those 3 teams should win it. Othe D1 teams need to shoot for making the Final 4, and then let chips fall where they may, look at Farragut last year - great year. Webb (BB) and USN have had some good years. And schools like that should only expect to make a run every 4 years or so. Anyway, I could go on and on but I won't.

Sorry for the ramblings and typos

[lax5091]

you speak alot of wisdom in this. But as a player its the fun of playin in a division where its unpredictable what the finals could be. In d1 wit almost no new teams comin in and the same three teams ballin every year its more of seein who can have a lucky win or come the closest to the win. it shouldn be that way. as a player i have seen the whole spectrum as a d2 state champion to a complete loss of a season in d1. i shouldn be able to say which division is more fun. i should be able to say each is equally as fun and competitive. we shouldn worry so much about how uneven the divisions are. since its a new growing sport they will even out over time when it grows to be like it is in yexas or the north. i believe strongly that while this sport is still in its developmental stages we should put the focus on gettin the sport known and make sure the athletes enjoy it. But you fellas know what your talkin bout im just a player givin my nickels worth on what i think i know.

[seeingthefield]

Good Point - this is an interesting topic on so many levels.

Right now D2 is more wide open (i.e. parity), however I think TSLA needs to be careful. You don't want D2 to turn into D1 in the sense that D1 for the most part there are 3 teams that dominate the division (not always but most of the time). You don't want that over a long period in D2. You want parity, and you want teams to have success in D2, then they need to move up so other teams can have that same feeling. A few years ago Franklin won 2 D2 titles in a row, if they did not move up they probably would have won 3, that is not what D2 is about. I think the hard part for TSLA is that no one is quite sure what the true vision of D2 is (in the sense of years out and not just the immediate year), and for that matter what the true vision for the sport is in TN. Some of that is b/c coaches are the board, and obviously coaching their team takes precedent over being a TSLA board member. Plus each coach wants what is best for his team, and that sometimes conflicts what is best for all teams in general.

Once again just some thoughts.

[Redtwin]

I have been in this state for a few years and this is how I see it. Lacrosse is growing but it could grow faster if more public and independent schools realized that there are other sports out there than football. Now there are obviosuly other factors that could help the sport grow (more coaches, officials, etc...). I played 3 sports in high school (not in TN) including football. In a lot of states football and lacrosse coaches work together, but TN there is this opposition to lacrosse - I don't get it. Lacrosse is the best thing that football players can do in the spring, it is better than running around in a circle. Look at Highland PArk in Texas. HAted Lax at first now they are Top 25 in Nation and still have great Football. If Texas can do it why can't we. Anyway I digress. Redtwin I think people like you (are you coaching?) knowledgeable people about lacrosse that are not coaching need to help the TSLA (become on the board). It is a lot to be a board member and a coach. I think it is great that lacrosse is not part of the machine (TSSAA) - a worn down rusted machine at that. At times things get wierd in those TSLA meetings. Why was JP2 allowed to stay down in D2? I think that is more of a travesty than Webb-Bell Buckle moving down. If D1 doesn't grow no one will want to stay (i.e. Webb and maybe others in the future). I can see Baylor and Ensworht possibly moving up next year, which would put D1 at 12, but I agree there needs to be some terms.

For example if you win D2 or in the D2 final 2 years in a row - move up. Have to stay up 3 years before petitioning to move down. People have to remember that a .500 season in D1 is pretty good. Let's be honet McCallie, MUS, and MBA should win it every year. Will they not always (Ravenwood recently), but those 3 teams should win it. Othe D1 teams need to shoot for making the Final 4, and then let chips fall where they may, look at Farragut last year - great year. Webb (BB) and USN have had some good years. And schools like that should only expect to make a run every 4 years or so. Anyway, I could go on and on but I won't.

Sorry for the ramblings and typos

 

I think the most important point you touched on is the lack of quality coaches available in TN, particulary in non-metropolitan areas. There's not a lot of knowledgable, experienced lacrosse players or coaches moving to rural Tenessee. If you look at the two most successful programs in the state, MUS and McCallie, they've had really good coaches stay at their respective schools for decades. MBA has finally put the right coaching staff together all the way through the program with excellent coaches in Harvey and Cooper, but there was a period where they were severely outcoached and it set the program back a bit. Ensworth, Ravenwood, Baylor, USN,and CBHS are just a few of the other programs around the state that have good coaches in place as well.

 

I've coached in middle school and elementary school on a volunteer basis and officiated in middle school, but my career prohibits me being as involved as I would like. I'm not coaching this year, but hope to get back involved at the elementary level next year. I know of several other guys who would like to do the same, but when you've got to feed a family or pay a mortgage, volunteering unfortunately has to take a back seat to work. Part of the reason that Georgia's growth has outpaced Tennessee's by such a large margin, other than the fact that Atlanta has 5x as many people as Nashville or Memphis, is that a lot of Yankees who have played lacrosse get sent down there for work. For instance, Liam Banks, the former Syracuse All-American attackman is now living there.

[fromthetop2]

I've watched LAX in this state since the mid-90's. D2 is a great venue for teams starting out, trying to drum up interest (which begs that there is a need for a true developmental league of true newbies that caps out after three years.) Move those squads that have learned the game to D2. The winners of each D2 championship then are mandated to move to D1- and no moving down for any reason. Teams and programs in lacrosse rise and fall like they do in other sports.

 

The biggest problem in D2 is lack of coaches, lack of compensation for coaches, and facilities. The public school AD's won't put any money into the programs until they become TSSAA certified (i.e. insurance coverage). D2 is stuck in a vicious cycle of development until it becomes recognized. Privates are not faced with the same challenges. Better coaching makes for better development, better development creates success, success breeds success and a program is born. Ravenwood made LAX a priority from the first days of the school opening, bringing the coach from the middle school up to start the program. That is more the exception than the rule.

 

All of this being said, lacrosse is here to stay in Tennessee. A culture and a tradition is being born, and it is exciting to witness.