School Choice=No Separate Divisions

[PHargis]

Rick, how small would you think and possibly define middle school and high school? And would you think that it good to have elementary and middle school students in the same school? Have seen that done and for a few years it works but on the back end, nothing but school maintence and building and building more schools instead of spending money for education and upgrading. Also have seen that done with the two age groups and seperating provides better teaching opportunities along with economics.

[BigShow1]

Are there not rules limiting how big classrooms can be now? I don't know what the difference is in large schools versus small schools when it comes to the classroom? A large school has more teachers and more classrooms but the classes have the same amount of students. If you think that you would not have gotten as good an education at a large school because of all the more kids you must believe that walking through larger more crowded hallways somehow affects the classroom. I doubt there is a lot of public education evidence in terms of small classrooms versus large classrooms IN CERTAIN SUBJECTS. In other words say a history class that is mostly a teacher centered taught subject. I dont' know that I would learn more from a lecture if there were 100 students in the class versus 25. Maybe for some subjects like math where you might need hands on help but not some subjects. Plus money would be saved and could be put to more teachers and resources if schools were larger and we did not have to build and operate lots of small schools. That is why I believe competition would lead to more larger schools but yet more resources at those schools.

[fiftyfifty]

stbulldog, my own limited experience (in my own upbringing and in the raising of my children) leads me to the same conclusion as you. I believe the smaller neighborhood schools provide a better educational experience for students at the secondary level. I recognize that it is difficult and perhaps impossible in some places to have neighborhood schools when housing patterns can lead to the result that those schools are racially segregated. I also know that there are theories about trying to provide students with a broader range of opportunities, recognizing that the college track is not the track for all. But I haven't seen anything in the large comprehensive school setting that makes me think that it represents, overall, an improvement in secondary education.

 

I agree, comprehensive schools are a dismal failure for the most part.

[PHargis]

Certainly you might think so as you are dealing with smaller schools and a smaller segment of the education system. Dealing with the largest segment and making it work and dealing with the cost effectiveness is another matter and one couldn't have the concept. I doubt if budgeting is even in the vocabulary with the finances gotten the way it is. Look at the costs. To say that elementary and Middle school education taught together is efficient, a lot of overhead is needed. However, the small school system is the way it is and is to be commended and fills a need for the mission It takes some flexible teachers that wear a lot of hats and some dedicated parents that will pay extra for what they want but to say that a comprehensive school is noit good only tells me your marketing is showing and you have little knowledge of what is going on. I would suggest that you go look at some of your small schools even in the intercity. Yes it is a great mission and I hope the product is good. I'm surre its hard work. I'm sure even your constituants will agree larger private schools give better education than the smaller ones. They have more resources, more materials, more equipment. All of this is why sometimes in selling your product, your overselling obviously has holes in the presentation because its what you want it to be and not actually what it may be. Just as with public schools, privates have issues also, both have some great schools and teachers and some need some work. Thats where each get their students.

If public schools have a problem with their schools, its within their control to get it fixed or change schools to another.

[rick7425]

BigShow1 and PHargis, as I said before, my opinion is based on my own limited experience. I don't profess to be an expert in what constitutes the best model for delivering educational services at the elementary or secondary level. I have observed that school systems generally seem to favor smaller elementary schools, which suggests to me that there is something considered there that goes beyond just the number of children that may be in an individual classroom.

 

In my early school years, I attended neighborhood schools. As I was transitioning from junior high to high school grades, my public school system was in a state of transition as a result of a federal court busing order. The first comprehensive school of the school system also was opening. Some neighborhood schools were shutting down. My personal observation was that when we lost the neighborhood schools, we lost something of the sense of community that accompanied the neighborhood schools. No longer did we see our teachers at the neighborhood cleaners or drug stores. No longer were we consistently in school with classmates who we had known outside of school for years. I think that loss of a sense of community contributed to the erosion of behavior standards inside the school building. I also think it contributed to a loss of parental support for the efforts of the teachers.

 

I never personally attended a comprehensive high school. My oldest daughter did. I do not view it as a positive experience. She was plenty intelligent, but she needed to be pushed -- not only at home, but also at school. I did not get the sense that she was receiving the personal interest from teachers that I recall being more common in the smaller schools that I attended, where the teachers got to know students throughout the building. I also observed the daughter of a close friend get "lost in the shuffle," so to speak, at my oldest daughter's school. Consequently, I made the decision to send my next child to high school at a private school. It wasn't because I didn't think quality educational services could be had at the public school, but rather because I worried that my next child was someone who would get "lost in the shuffle" if I put him in an environment where that was allowed. My opinion was that in a smaller school setting, where teachers really get a chance to see the same kids all day long and get a chance to really know them, it was more likely that the teachers generally would take more of a personal interest in him. I was pleased with the results.

 

By the way, my younger son is now about to graduate from the University of Tennessee with honors. A large institution indeed. But there is a dramatic difference in what makes good educational sense for a 13 or 14 year old as opposed to an 18 year old who has had a chance to mature and figure out what it takes to be successful.

 

So that's my personal experience, upon which my opinions about large comprehensive schools are based.

[fiftyfifty]

Certainly you might think so as you are dealing with smaller schools and a smaller segment of the education system. Dealing with the largest segment and making it work and dealing with the cost effectiveness is another matter and one couldn't have the concept. I doubt if budgeting is even in the vocabulary with the finances gotten the way it is. Look at the costs. To say that elementary and Middle school education taught together is efficient, a lot of overhead is needed. However, the small school system is the way it is and is to be commended and fills a need for the mission It takes some flexible teachers that wear a lot of hats and some dedicated parents that will pay extra for what they want but to say that a comprehensive school is noit good only tells me your marketing is showing and you have little knowledge of what is going on. I would suggest that you go look at some of your small schools even in the intercity. Yes it is a great mission and I hope the product is good. I'm surre its hard work. I'm sure even your constituants will agree larger private schools give better education than the smaller ones. They have more resources, more materials, more equipment. All of this is why sometimes in selling your product, your overselling obviously has holes in the presentation because its what you want it to be and not actually what it may be. Just as with public schools, privates have issues also, both have some great schools and teachers and some need some work. Thats where each get their students.

If public schools have a problem with their schools, its within their control to get it fixed or change schools to another.

 

 

Once again, you have no knowledge or could even guess as to my experience in the education system. As to your ignorant statement that larger schools offer more than smaller schools, you must be speaking of small public schools, and that may not be true. Your own statements about finances and the lack of them would also attest that bigger is not better. Your equating private and public schools is again short sighted. I am not presenting anything for any reason. I am simply expressing opinions same as you are. I do not have to sell any product, private schools speak for themselves. You have volleyball of the brain disease which effects everything you post. Any statement about knowledge that you make is comical since you have demostrated time and time again that you have an agenda, that does not necessarily transfer into knowledge. Ask yourself a question, why do so many posters question everything you post on various threads? Is it because they are all stupid and you are so superior in intelligence or is it some other way. You are always presenting yourself as knowing everybody, knowing everything, and having experience in every topic on this board. Do you really think anyone buys all that balleyhoo you post? By the way, why didn't you acknowledge that you were the Lipscomb ballplayer in the Nashville Retrospective newspaper, do you still have those glasses you wore. One last request, when are we going to be able to read your post about all the damage that the Mid Tn Tournamnet caused last season, hurry up, we are waiting. Oh yeah, I forgot, once again you stated you were no longer going to respond to my posts. I just get your goat, I guess. One last poing, no, we do not agree that larger private schools are better due to size, just not true. Take a trip to St Pius on Tucker Rd where the student to pupil ratio is approximately 7 to one and than tell me larger is better. If anyone thinks larger is better, go to one of the comprehensive high schools in Nashville and sit in the classroom with the 30 or so other students and watch the teacher spend alot of time just trying to maintain order, and then teach as well. It ain't easy.

[PHargis]

What a ridiculous post and not even close to discussing the same subject. Jump from 1-7 to comprehensive and they are not even the same cagtagory. Anything else you would like to switch subjects on or berate on a condescending manner? To bring everything back, you can put a 1-7 ratio in a shopping center and charge whatever you like. That is a sub private school. That is more a special ed school and needed. Parents feel the need for the size school that meets their needs. To say that public schools can meet the needs of everyone without customizing is just trying to shoe horn your marketing scheme with one of your posts.

Again, there are good private and public schools and there are I'm sure those that aren't. The constituants make the difference. To say that a 1-7 ratio school can give better education than an elementary school who is geared to a classroom with 21 student class size and deals with a diverse student body and up to date audio visuals and current elementary/Middle school seperations is out of touch with current teaching methods. That, my friend, is you. So go ahead with 1-7 in your situation. I will agree with you. Spend your money on school maintenance and everything else besides education, UNLESS, the need and mission requires it.

We can agree with one thing though. There is a class size that is too large. And when is the last time you were in a comprehensive high school and checked on what you posted is correct. And what makes you think you are an authority on the subject when you have difficulty finding your way between two schools. Two different worlds. Eight grades, 1-7 teacher pupil ratio??? Elementary and middle school in the same school and you are in charge?????? And how much are you charging? It may be worth it. Like anything else, conditions require anything. And where are your schools?

[fiftyfifty]

What a ridiculous post and not even close to discussing the same subject. Jump from 1-7 to comprehensive and they are not even the same cagtagory. Anything else you would like to switch subjects on or berate on a condescending manner? To bring everything back, you can put a 1-7 ratio in a shopping center and charge whatever you like. That is a sub private school. That is more a special ed school and needed. Parents feel the need for the size school that meets their needs. To say that public schools can meet the needs of everyone without customizing is just trying to shoe horn your marketing scheme with one of your posts.

Again, there are good private and public schools and there are I'm sure those that aren't. The constituants make the difference. To say that a 1-7 ratio school can give better education than an elementary school who is geared to a classroom with 21 student class size and deals with a diverse student body and up to date audio visuals and current elementary/Middle school seperations is out of touch with current teaching methods. That, my friend, is you. So go ahead with 1-7 in your situation. I will agree with you. Spend your money on school maintenance and everything else besides education, UNLESS, the need and mission requires it.

We can agree with one thing though. There is a class size that is too large. And when is the last time you were in a comprehensive high school and checked on what you posted is correct. And what makes you think you are an authority on the subject when you have difficulty finding your way between two schools. Two different worlds. Eight grades, 1-7 teacher pupil ratio??? Elementary and middle school in the same school and you are in charge?????? And how much are you charging? It may be worth it. Like anything else, conditions require anything. And where are your schools?

 

I was in a comprehensive high school recently showing a video to a particular class. It was like trying to wade through a New York city street. Part of my job is visiting schools. As to your question of what makes me think I am an authority on the subject. I never said I was an authority nor do I think that. I said you think you are an authority. As to the charging at the school that has a seven to one student-teacher ratio, it is one of the best bargains in town. St Pius on Tucker Rd, Nashville. Quality education, no argument and there are others. As to the rest of your post, the only one that can really understand it is you, kind of a scary thought. Every time you attack my posts which by the way you have stated many times that you were not going to respond to, it seems you are intimidated by another opinion. Bottom line is I get your Goat and that just bothers you alot. Try and have a nice day or better yet, go visit a comprehensive high school so you might know better about what you post. I was amused at your listing of video equipment and other electronics,etc as evidence that a school is doing its job. If that was the case, then comprehensive schools would be shining examples of education, but alas, they are not yet. PS in response to your statement that middle schools grades 1 through 8 are out of date with current teaching methods. Good, oh so good, because current teaching methods in the state of Tennessee haven't been winning too many awards lately, so I am glad that according to you, the Catholic middle school system is out of date. What is in date is success, quality education and the total forming of our students. If that is out of date, so be it. That was your most short-sighted, silly statement.

[PHargis]

Don't let your ego get in your way. Intimidated by you? It's amazing they will even let you in to the school. With that attitude it only tells me you are no basis for comparing. 1-7 ? k-8 ? I would doubt you would make many friends and influence many people or relate there ? Even a 1 on 1 would be a better bargain.

Now what is true, one makes the best out of how one operates. Realizing attacks go two ways, don't feel that the world circulates around your space. There are other spaces and if you travel to Metro showing films, its got to show.

Now, if you want to continue this, we will do it because perfection is not on these posts. And no awards are given out to anybody. I would hate to be in an atmosphere that I had to associate with people I had no respect for.

[fiftyfifty]

Don't let your ego get in your way. Intimidated by you? It's amazing they will even let you in to the school. With that attitude it only tells me you are no basis for comparing. 1-7 ? k-8 ? I would doubt you would make many friends and influence many people or relate there ? Even a 1 on 1 would be a better bargain.

Now what is true, one makes the best out of how one operates. Realizing attacks go two ways, don't feel that the world circulates around your space. There are other spaces and if you travel to Metro showing films, its got to show.

Now, if you want to continue this, we will do it because perfection is not on these posts. And no awards are given out to anybody. I would hate to be in an atmosphere that I had to associate with people I had no respect for.

 

I stated that you are intimidated by other opinions, it doesn't matter who the poster is as evidenced by your responses to other posters on various topics. Your personal comments on me are silly and once again based on someone disagreeing with you. The hugh comprehensive schools speak for themselves, nothing else to say. But there are options if one wants to utilize them. Your statement about perfection is right on. Are there any other common sense statements that you would like to add.

[PHargis]

Don't let your ego get in your way. Intimidated by you? It's amazing they will even let you in to the school. With that attitude it only tells me you are no basis for comparing. 1-7 ? k-8 ? I would doubt you would make many friends and influence many people or relate there ? Even a 1 on 1 would be a better bargain.

Now what is true, one makes the best out of how one operates. Realizing attacks go two ways, don't feel that the world circulates around your space. There are other spaces and if you travel to Metro showing films, its got to show.

Now, if you want to continue this, we will do it because perfection is not on these posts. And no awards are given out to anybody. I would hate to be in an atmosphere that I had to associate with people I had no respect for.

 

I stated that you are intimidated by other opinions, it doesn't matter who the poster is as evidenced by your responses to other posters on various topics. Your personal comments on me are silly and once again based on someone disagreeing with you. The hugh comprehensive schools speak for themselves, nothing else to say. But there are options if one wants to utilize them. Your statement about perfection is right on. Are there any other common sense statements that you would like to add.

No, the statements of the CS are what you are trying to speak for and they are just your opinions which really mean nothing. There are options, 1-7, K-8. It is agreed that preferences trump. Marketing is your task and trying to degrade will be challenged. It is true that PS have some problems. After all, they are the big kid on the block. Private schools have there own issues also and for someone on this site to disregard that during the recruiting period for privates, is disingenious. Just more marketing. And what firm are you with?

[fiftyfifty]

Don't let your ego get in your way. Intimidated by you? It's amazing they will even let you in to the school. With that attitude it only tells me you are no basis for comparing. 1-7 ? k-8 ? I would doubt you would make many friends and influence many people or relate there ? Even a 1 on 1 would be a better bargain.

Now what is true, one makes the best out of how one operates. Realizing attacks go two ways, don't feel that the world circulates around your space. There are other spaces and if you travel to Metro showing films, its got to show.

Now, if you want to continue this, we will do it because perfection is not on these posts. And no awards are given out to anybody. I would hate to be in an atmosphere that I had to associate with people I had no respect for.

 

I stated that you are intimidated by other opinions, it doesn't matter who the poster is as evidenced by your responses to other posters on various topics. Your personal comments on me are silly and once again based on someone disagreeing with you. The hugh comprehensive schools speak for themselves, nothing else to say. But there are options if one wants to utilize them. Your statement about perfection is right on. Are there any other common sense statements that you would like to add.

No, the statements of the CS are what you are trying to speak for and they are just your opinions which really mean nothing. There are options, 1-7, K-8. It is agreed that preferences trump. Marketing is your task and trying to degrade will be challenged. It is true that PS have some problems. After all, they are the big kid on the block. Private schools have there own issues also and for someone on this site to disregard that during the recruiting period for privates, is disingenious. Just more marketing. And what firm are you with?

I don't have a clue as to what you refer to as "recruiting period" and I work for no firm. It is becoming quite clear to me that you are challenged in some vital areas, so further discussion with you is a waste of time, but don't think for one minute that I will not post my opinions same as you do, just won't get as many complaints. Please post soon on the devastating effects of the Mid Tn Volleyball Tournament new venue on the volleyball thread. PS I or nobody else has to speak for Catholic schools that you call CS. They speak for themselves. Here is one last piece of terrible news, your opinion means nothing either.