No change for Falcon football

[SeeingthingsoO]

Sorry if it seems I'm posting to much in this thread, but by the way.. I ran across a place called topix when I was looking up the history stats again. This is what is being posted about us by someone right now.

Topic - Falcon Football

Location of Poster - Johnson City, TN

 

What a joke, after losing to Elizabethton, Friday Night, and then again in the JV game Monday, the Volunteer Coaches decided, they would just not show up for the freshman game in Elizabethton Thursday. The only problem with that is no one called Elizabethton. They had the stands full of fans, hotdogs and popcorn were cooked, the officials were paid, the players had warmed up, the only thing missing was the Volunteer Falcons Freshman Team. I can understand being upset about losing, but people worked hard to prepare for the game, and have fund raisers to feed the kids after school, what they did was wrong. I hope they cancel all future games with Volunteer.

 

3 other people have posted in response to whomever this person is from Elizabethton. I didn't get to attend this game because of work related issues and honestly didn't know the Freshman would be playing that night. Was this really done by the coaching staff from Volunteer? Did they not even inform these people they wouldn't be showing up? What kind of message is that really sending out about the program now?

[SweetScience]

Sorry if it seems I'm posting to much in this thread, but by the way.. I ran across a place called topix when I was looking up the history stats again. This is what is being posted about us by someone right now.

 

3 other people have posted in response to whomever this person is from Elizabethton. I didn't get to attend this game because of work related issues and honestly didn't know the Freshman would be playing that night. Was this really done by the coaching staff from Volunteer? Did they not even inform these people they wouldn't be showing up? What kind of message is that really sending out about the program now?

whoever said maryville has over 2000 students is wrong... i live in maryville and watch them on occasion, and they do play some guys both ways... maryville has approximately 1350 students that go to that school... MARYVILLE has the luxury of having PROBABLY the best coaching staff in the state... not trying to be a smart A ,just saying..

[rogers4falcons]

Wow, I think my eyes are playing tricks on me. Some of you are saying the exact same things that have previously been said by fans in years past. Although back then, myself and many more have been downed as not supporting this team for speaking our minds.

 

I've supported this team for many years. From pee-wee to high school - I've sat through entire games from beginning to end regardless of win or lose. I've watched the Falcon stands go from a packed house, to barren concrete slabs by the end of the 3rd quarter. I desperately want to see these boys be a winning team. Heck, not for me as a fan, but for them! I could only begin to imagine how proud they would feel of themselves if they could win these games. With all that said, it's not going to make one ounce of difference how much we as fans support them! We can't do anything more in the stands to play the game out on that field for them. That is what their coaching staff is for, that's what their paid to do for our boys and school! Have they been giving them the advantages of a winning team? heck no! Berate me all you want, it's the truth.

 

Talent is at Volunteer, always has been. Week after week their is talent standing on the sidelines, playing on the field or sitting in the stands. Yes, in the stands there are boys who have talent enough to play. Yet when they started attending Volunteer they either quit before JV, during or right after. Most of the reasoning behind their decision is because they are tired of the coaching staff who know squat about what they are doing. They are sick and tired of the AD hiring his buddies or who his buddies want him to hire that know absolutely nothing about teaching kids how to play the game! Just because you played football, doesn't mean that you have the ability to teach someone else the game. They are tired of Rider who doesn't know jack about coaching a well-rounded team overall. To explain myself about knowing their is talent, take the middle school level from Church Hill alone. Several years ago Church Middle School went undefeated under the reign of Coach Palco. Undefeated! Those boys are at Volunteer today. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Devon Rogers played during that time, or right after when Coach Fain took over. Then Coach Fain for example had his boys disciplined enough to win all but one of their games last year. Those boys are now playing JV football for Volunteer. Now I realize middle school football comes nowhere close to playing the size and ranks of high school football, but what happened after they started at Volunteer? We should have seen these same boys only getting better. However, we never seen some of them play again. Most of their playing time was yanked and they are no more than sideline warmers for nothing. (I know someone will come off with a lame comeback to say I must be disgruntled parent with a kid standing on the sidelines. I can assure you that is not the case, I'm not one of those parents, never have been, never will be.) The reason I say that is because it's true. They are positioned on the sidelines and have no amount of play time until someone gets injured, or they are seniors. By that time these boys have lost strength, effort, passion and ability to perform basic fundamentals.

 

Somewhere along the way the coaching staff at Volunteer doesn't step above and beyond to make a whole team. Nothing is in place for a complete, well-rounded athletic football program. There is nothing for a nutrition balance program, combined with a rounded body building program to increase strength, endurance etc... The body building their doing right now is not going to help without everything else put behind it. When Rider moved in, he removed over half of the equipment that was purchased by football boosters from years past. I can tell you this, our competition owns their own sets of that exact equipment and they darn sure use it on a daily basis in their body building programs. There are a lot of Falcon players that lose roughly between 20-45 pounds during camp, two-a-days or when they finally start back rushing to prepare in the fall. This leaves them at a disadvantage when facing larger, stronger, tougher teams we have to play now. They do not discipline each boy the same, they do not teach the boys who are average how to be better players. They simply don't know how or they refuse to do so.

 

Some of you are saying to play kids on both sides of the ball. Ok, if that is what you would rather see, fine. Let's try that approach and wear these boys out. No offense, but are you crazy? Most of the boys cannot play a full 4 quarters as it is. Now your wanting to wear them out worse by playing them on both sides of the ball? This still goes back leaving more boys standing on the sidelines instead of playing and growing an overall effect football team. If that approach happens, why not take those sidelines warmers off the field entirely. Stop wasting their time, because I guarantee you they don't appreciate standing there all night watching their life float by them. I don't appreciate my tax money, concession money, booster money etc.. being wasted to purchase these boys with uniform, equipment, food and travel expenses. But hey, here's a novel idea.. How about we find a coaching staff who will teach these boys that everyone feels are average or can't play squat how to better? At one time they were learning and could play, why not continue? Get them off the sidelines and use them effectively, teach them how to play before Friday night or senior year!

 

Wow, I just noticed how long this post had become. I apologize if I offended anyone, or if you don't agree with what I've said. My opinion may be different than yours, but I can assure you that we want the same goal...for the Falcons to finally come out on top and win.

I agree with some of what you said in that long post.....But at the high school level you need the best players on the field at all times if you want to win. I commend Rider for trying to play the kids only on one side of the ball. Volunteer is one of the only schools around here that plays just 2 players both ways. Even DB plays around 7 players on both offense and defense. Maybe the VHS coaching staff isn’t preparing them enough. I don’t know….I do know this though, Volunteer needs to let go of the single wing and let Houston pass like he did tonight. Houston throwing the football will open up the running game. I think the single wing would work better if it wasn’t your main formation. It would be nice to see the RB have the field spread out and only have to beat a few players instead of the whole defense. Volunteer’s defense has to get better if they want to win a game. A lot of wide open receivers and missed tackles tonight. That's how I see it from the stands. I’m just a fan and I want the best for the players.

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

I agree with some of what you said in that long post.....But at the high school level you need the best players on the field at all times if you want to win. I commend Rider for trying to play the kids only on one side of the ball. Volunteer is one of the only schools around here that plays just 2 players both ways. Even DB plays around 7 players on both offense and defense. Maybe the VHS coaching staff isn’t preparing them enough. I don’t know….I do know this though, Volunteer needs to let go of the single wing and let Houston pass like he did tonight. Houston throwing the football will open up the running game. I think the single wing would work better if it wasn’t your main formation. It would be nice to see the RB have the field spread out and only have to beat a few players instead of the whole defense. Volunteer’s defense has to get better if they want to win a game. A lot of wide open receivers and missed tackles tonight. That's how I see it from the stands. I’m just a fan and I want the best for the players.

 

I agree with everything that's been said so far except for the criticism of the Single Wing. The Single Wing WORKS! Even for Volunteer. It's been consistently gaining yards for Volunteer even when it's being ran like a bunch of monkeys attempting a Chinese Fire Drill coached by a bunch of blind gorillas!

 

You have to understand that the Single Wing is more than a formation. It's an entire offensive philosophy and has a bunch of unique techniques and strategy that are specific to it. What you see at Volunteer is a horrendously sloppy, pale imitation of what the Single Wing should be--tons of fumbled snaps, godawful fakes, missed blocks galore, predictable formations, overall lack of speed, etc. That's not the offense's fault, that's the coaching staff's. IMO, installing the Single Wing and only playing his guys 1 way are the two best things he's done since taking over in 2005.

 

Harris has potential to be a good QB. Volunteer has had a long succession of talented kids with the potential to be good QBs for at least the past 15 years. However, no one in NE TN aside from Stacy Carter or the staff at Tennessee High seems to know how to actually coach a QB. When I watch Harris play and try to throw to Volunteer's receivers (who can't beat man coverage to save their lives) all I see is an a kid who's trying to do stuff he has no idea how to do. Just like all the others. They all take a step back each year after they leave middle school.

 

However, the biggest weakness to this staff isn't the QB or the lack of a consistent, productive passing game or speedy athletes, it's that godawful, embarrassing defense! Who is Volunteer's defensive coordinator!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Does he get his defensive playbook off old Tecmo Bowl games!?!?! And most importantly, who is Volunteer's DBs coach!? All I've seen from the secondary for the past several years has been disgusting. Horrible coverage calls (and coverages determine what the defensive front can actually do). DBs playing the laziest, least physical, clumsiest looking pass coverage I've ever seen. DBs who don't know how to shed a block or even take a pursuit angle! DBs in deep coverage standing flat footed as WRs streak past them for easy TDs. Your opponent should never be able to complete a fade route against Cov. 3, but I see it all the time!

 

IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THAT EVERY ONE OF VOLUNTEER'S OPPONENTS THIS YEAR HAS LINED UP IN TRIPS, CAUSING VOLUNTEER TO CHECK TO THEIR WIMPY "TAP AND WALK" MAN COVERAGE AND THROWN DEEP FOR MULTIPLE LONG GAINS!

 

Elizabethton did it. Science Hill did it all day. And Sullivan North, a doublewing team who'd just as soon cut off their right hands as throw the ball, did it! This is just embarrassing.

 

The defensive gameplan against Science Hill was simply retarded. Science Hill would line up in trips, causing Volunteer to shift to a man coverage. Science Hill, knowing that the shotgun spread option (their bread and butter) eats man defenses alive by running off defenders and then running right where they should be, romped all over them on the ground, then threw all over the clueless secondary just for a change of pace. The DBs are relatively big, fast, and athletic for high school ball, but they are coached more poorly than a pee-wee team.

 

Volunteer's defensive front against Science Hill was also lost. It was as if the concept of putting a spy on a mobile QB hadn't yet been invented, or as if the DC had not bothered to research how to keep a zone read team off balance (HINT: you stunt the QB and trick him into doing what you really want him to do--either give or keep--then you have your LBs and DBs set up to contain THAT).

 

Volunteer has the talent. They have amazing fan support for their lack of history (though Church Hill High was a dominant power in the 60s and 70s--the PTB in Hawkins Co. decided that Church Hill's championship history and tradition shouldn't even be associated with Volunteer in any way). It's a shame.

 

These kids deserve better. Volunteer might somehow get a win here or there. If they do, that'll probably save Rider's job. Afterall, the Hawkins Co. admin and boosters like to play golf with Jason Witten every now and then. It's sad and pathetic.

 

However, if Rider gets fired, I don't have any faith in them to make the right hire. They'd probably just promote the worthless DC and let him run that team further into embarrassment or hire some good ol' boy with the right family connections. It's very telling that there have been a lot of fine coaches to cut their teeth as assistants at Volunteer, leave, and have ZERO interest in ever going back there when the head job opens up every 3-5 years. Joey Christian, DB Offensive Coordinator and Volunteer alum... Mike Mayes, Tennessee High's great fiery DC and strength coach (who's trained multiple kids for D-1 ball now) was a former Volunteer DB's coach and DC under Gene Venable, etc. Both are relatively young and were mentioned as possible candidates but NEITHER OF THEM WOULD TOUCH THIS JOB WHEN IT WAS OPEN THE LAST TIME! They didn't want to deal with all the political meddling that goes on in Hawkins Co. No decent coach will, either.

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

I should add that one of the reasons I'm really angry about the lack of physical play by Volunteer's DBs is because I know that, unlike the NFL, there is no "illegal contact" rule in HS ball. As long as it's not holding and the ball's not in the air, it's ok to ride that WR like a bull at the rodeo! CBs should be jamming those WRs into the bleechers on every pass play if they're in man!

 

However, this bunch seems like they've been coached to barely lay a hand on their opponent, lest they get flagged (because we all know a 15 yard PI penalty is soooooooooo much worse than a 45 yd TD pass). Then they watch the WR run past them as they're looking into the backfield to try and get an INT so they can be the big hero. Then they watch that same WR make the catch and continue unmolested for a long TD. Then they get to hear everyone defend it by saying the kid simply wasn't fast enough to keep up...

 

Or it's a running play and they're being stalk blocked 40 yards downfield (literally--I saw this numerous times in each game!) or the FS takes a pursuit angle that requires him to run an extra 20 yards in a semi-circular path. Just awful defensive technique and execution.

 

You don't need to run 4.4 to play DB in HS Ball! You just need to be savvy and have *some* athletic ability. 4.8 is plenty of speed for this level if you know what to do with it. These kids've got the talent, but the "savvy" has never been taught. The Volunteer coaching staff seems to be of the "Just go out there and be athletes" school of thought, all while complaining about not having the athletes. I guess they flunked out of that school...

Edited September 4, 2010 by ChurchHillFootballFan

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

The most frustrating thing is that the talent is there and always has been. The support has been there for years. This school makes a fortune off their fans and their fans travel better than any local fanbase this side of Dobyns-Bennett. But the Hawkins County BOE is willing to accept losing as the status quo at Volunteer and thinks an occasional year of mediocrity is some awesome success. It's not about the wins and losses with them, but how you stroke the right egos behind the scenes. Rider's been good at that.

 

Will he survive another 0-10 or maybe a 2-8 season? I don't know. I doubt it. He is 2-21 since 2007 and that miracle win at Tennessee High (correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't his DC then Brad Stubbs, who currently works for his father at Tennessee High?). Ever since then it's a defense that can't tackle, DBs who can't cover (and an OL who can't block but Rider's always had that--this year's is surprisingly good at run blocking). It's no wonder that many of the most talented kids in the school don't want to waste time with this team after they watch the son of someone with stroke get the starting nods over them.

 

Sorry to spend so many words fuming about the sad state of Volunteer football, but I'm a proud alum and lifelong Church Hill resident. I wore the blue and orange myself once upon a time and I have family who did, too. I suffered through the incompetent Steve Starnes era (and his equally incompetent cronies/college buddy assistants) and saw firsthand how things have to be done at Volunteer if you want to be a coach. It's not pretty. Some things never change, I guess. The only thing that finally got him fired was a couple of his scumbag assistants stabbing him in the back and the QB's parents pulling some political strings to get an offense built how their kid wanted.

 

I wouldn't jump on the Volunteer AD, though. I've known Jim Whalen for many years. He's a good man who only wants the best for the team and the students. Unfortunately, being AD doesn't mean a whole lot at that school.

Edited September 4, 2010 by ChurchHillFootballFan

[crawdad]

Sorry if it seems I'm posting to much in this thread, but by the way.. I ran across a place called topix when I was looking up the history stats again. This is what is being posted about us by someone right now.

 

3 other people have posted in response to whomever this person is from Elizabethton. I didn't get to attend this game because of work related issues and honestly didn't know the Freshman would be playing that night. Was this really done by the coaching staff from Volunteer? Did they not even inform these people they wouldn't be showing up? What kind of message is that really sending out about the program now?

I was told by a member of South's coaching staff that Volunteer did not have a freshman team this year. Last season Voulunteer canceled the freshman game with South and did not want to reschedule which was unfair to the players. I agree with previous posters that you have had excellent teams at the middle school level, but apparently you are losing them in the transition to high school. Shore up that freshman program and maintain the winning attitude from middle school. I would not let any freshman play varsity ball no matter how good they are. It is too early and much more harm can come to the player than good.

[sgoinseagle4life]

The most frustrating thing is that the talent is there and always has been. The support has been there for years. This school makes a fortune off their fans and their fans travel better than any local fanbase this side of Dobyns-Bennett. But the Hawkins County BOE is willing to accept losing as the status quo at Volunteer and thinks an occasional year of mediocrity is some awesome success. It's not about the wins and losses with them, but how you stroke the right egos behind the scenes. Rider's been good at that.

 

Will he survive another 0-10 or maybe a 2-8 season? I don't know. I doubt it. He is 2-21 since 2007 and that miracle win at Tennessee High (correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't his DC then Brad Stubbs, who currently works for his father at Tennessee High?). Ever since then it's a defense that can't tackle, DBs who can't cover (and an OL who can't block but Rider's always had that--this year's is surprisingly good at run blocking). It's no wonder that many of the most talented kids in the school don't want to waste time with this team after they watch the son of someone with stroke get the starting nods over them.

 

Sorry to spend so many words fuming about the sad state of Volunteer football, but I'm a proud alum and lifelong Church Hill resident. I wore the blue and orange myself once upon a time and I have family who did, too. I suffered through the incompetent Steve Starnes era (and his equally incompetent cronies/college buddy assistants) and saw firsthand how things have to be done at Volunteer if you want to be a coach. It's not pretty. Some things never change, I guess. The only thing that finally got him fired was a couple of his scumbag assistants stabbing him in the back and the QB's parents pulling some political strings to get an offense built how their kid wanted.

 

I wouldn't jump on the Volunteer AD, though. I've known Jim Whalen for many years. He's a good man who only wants the best for the team and the students. Unfortunately, being AD doesn't mean a whole lot at that school.

 

Coach Rider's defensive coordinator for the 2005 - 2007 seasons was Jim Hastings.

Edited September 5, 2010 by sgoinseagle4life

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

Coach Rider's defensive coordinator for the 2005 - 2007 seasons was Jim Hastings.

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

So what happened to Hastings? The Falcon defense was so much better when he was there. The last 2.3 years they haven't been able to stop anybody and they've just been fundamentally unsound in about every way a defense can be.

 

Also, who is the current defensive coordinator? Does anyone even know?

[Quasar]

Not knocking the Falcons' D-coordinator but they didn't make a single front adjustment all night v SHHS, and insisted playing man coverage most of the night which played to SH's strength.

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

Just some numbers to show why I'm coming down so hard on the Volunteer Defensive Coordinator.

 

PPG under his predecessor from 2005-2007:

 

2005: 25.1 (record 2-8, but 6 opponents held to 3 TDs or less)

2006: 25.5 (record 5-6 and playoff berth-7 opponents held to 3 TDs or less)

2007: 19.1 (record 6-6 and 2nd round of playoffs-8 opponents held to 3 TDs or less including 1st rd opp. Tennessee High)

 

PPG since he took over in 2008:

 

2008: 28.4 (record 2-8 with 3 opponents held to 3 TD or less ***RANKED 7TH OF 8 IN 2-AAAA)

2009: 37.7 (record 0-10 with NO opponents held to *4* TDs or less ***DEAD LAST IN 1-AAA BY OVER 5 PPG!!!!***)

2010: 35.0 (record 0-3 with NO opponents held to *4* TDs or less ***CURRENTLY 7TH OF 8 IN 1-AAA***)

 

The Falcon defense given up AT LEAST 28 POINTS IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR LAST 16 GAMES!!!! The current DC has only held opponents under 4 TDs a grand total of *3* times, and all of those came in 2008 with a lot of returning starters off the previous year's playoff team. They have given up *at least* 40 points a game 8 times, or 35% of the time, under his tenure! The team also has a whopping winning percentage of 8.7% (2 for 23) since he took over!

 

You're not going to win in high school ball when your defense is allowing at least 4 TDs a game and letting the opponents have their way through the air and on the ground. No offense can keep pace with that.

 

In fairness, the Volunteer offense has also been pretty abysmal during this span. Mostly due to turnovers, poor offensive line play, and inconsistent passing. Plus they've not gotten that many opportunities since the other teams hold onto the ball so long with long drives.

 

Falcons offensive PPG under Rider:

 

2005: 13.1 ppg

2006: 17.5 ppg* 1st round of playoffs and closed out season at 5-1 after starting 0-5

2007: 21.5 ppg* 2nd round of playoffs, lost to Greeneville by 11 on the road in 2nd round

2008: 14.9 ppg

2009: 10.6 ppg

2010: 10.6 ppg

 

So Rider got off to a good start early on at Volunteer after Gene Veneble left him a 1-9 team from the year before. His first 3 years were very successful. But since he promoted the current DC, Volunteer has returned to being a laughingstock of NET HS football.

 

I'm not totally opposed to seeing Rider continue to coach this team, but he's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and his failure to address the horrid defense is inexusable. That D-Coordinator must be stripped of his duties if he can't be fired outright. These kids deserve a chance to compete without some idiot coach undercutting them at every turn.

Edited September 5, 2010 by ChurchHillFootballFan

[crashomatic]

I’m convinced that Volunteer has no chance to win a game this season. The coaching staff doesn’t switch things up on offense and the play calling is horrendous. The coaching staff had a year to come up with an offense to help these boys win. And all they come up with was the single wing. The Single Wing is a pee wee football offense. I really don't know why in the world any team would run this as their main formation. I do not understand how the coaches couldn't see that the single wing was a bad idea. Yeah, it worked a little against 1a schools in the scrimmages, but not having an offense with the QB under center or another offensive plan is just insane to me. I really hate it for the boys on that team. I do support the boys, but I also believe they deserve better.

 

Also, I want to know why Volunteer doesn’t play their players both ways. I watched DB play their first game this season and they had 7 players playing both ways, including their QB and star RB.