Nooga Area

[ChattanoogaCannon]

I heard there were several cards and a soft red. Wish I could have been there.

 

Can anyone say Ali vs Frazier

 

What in the world is a "soft red"? My daughter told me the same thing. I have never heard of such an animal. High school soccer is a very strange sport.

[socref1]

What in the world is a "soft red"? My daughter told me the same thing. I have never heard of such an animal. High school soccer is a very strange sport.

A soft red is a send off for the player, but the offending team doesn't have to play a man down. Also, the offending player does not necessarily have to sit the next game, or two. It is purely discretionary by the school. A soft red is given for the following: 1) 2nd caution 2) taunting 3) excessive celebration. For a second caution, the referee displays both the red and yellow card in tandem.

 

The soft red is a HS rule exclusively. HS soccer isn't strange. The rule makers are trying to make this a "scholastic" experience, apart from FIFA soccer while minimizing litigation and liability.

 

Coaches and bench personnel can be carded, and shown the YC or RC in HS and other things.

 

Here is a link to the differences between N (HS), NISOA (college), and FIFA (USSF). A lot of things for referees that do HS, college, and USSF to keep separated. It can be confusing.

 

http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=3381

[Canesoverhere]

A soft red is a send off for the player, but the offending team doesn't have to play a man down. Also, the offending player does not necessarily have to sit the next game, or two. It is purely discretionary by the school. A soft red is given for the following: 1) 2nd caution 2) taunting 3) excessive celebration. For a second caution, the referee displays both the red and yellow card in tandem.

 

The soft red is a HS rule exclusively. HS soccer isn't strange. The rule makers are trying to make this a "scholastic" experience, apart from FIFA soccer while minimizing litigation and liability.

 

Coaches and bench personnel can be carded, and shown the YC or RC in HS and other things.

 

Here is a link to the differences between N (HS), NISOA (college), and FIFA (USSF). A lot of things for referees that do HS, college, and USSF to keep separated. It can be confusing.

 

http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=3381

Would calling a player offsides who is 5 yards on side

OR

would calling a player on side when they are clearly 10 yards down the pitch on tape a part of high school officiating?

 

Perhaps now I am appreciating how confusing it is....

[ChattanoogaCannon]

A soft red is a send off for the player, but the offending team doesn't have to play a man down. Also, the offending player does not necessarily have to sit the next game, or two. It is purely discretionary by the school. A soft red is given for the following: 1) 2nd caution 2) taunting 3) excessive celebration. For a second caution, the referee displays both the red and yellow card in tandem.

 

The soft red is a HS rule exclusively. HS soccer isn't strange. The rule makers are trying to make this a "scholastic" experience, apart from FIFA soccer while minimizing litigation and liability.

 

Coaches and bench personnel can be carded, and shown the YC or RC in HS and other things.

 

Here is a link to the differences between N (HS), NISOA (college), and FIFA (USSF). A lot of things for referees that do HS, college, and USSF to keep separated. It can be confusing.

 

http://www.nfhs.org/Workarea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=3381

 

Thanks for making my case.

[socref1]

Would calling a player offsides who is 5 yards on side

OR

would calling a player on side when they are clearly 10 yards down the pitch on tape a part of high school officiating?

 

Perhaps now I am appreciating how confusing it is....

Offside is confusing to people in the stands. It is the most debated call by spectators because people off the field have their view of only the player and the ball. You need to get out of your chair to understand parallax error and how it relates to the elements of offside infraction and Law XI. This should help you.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

 

Here is another link

 

http://precedings.nature.com/documents/3835/version/1/files/npre20093835-1.pdf

 

(The conclusion - that FIFA should abolish offside is absurd)

 

Your determining the player offside or not from the spectator point of view is a flawed premise. Applying your reasoning from the stands requires that you be exactly in line to make that call and all the elements to call or not call off side are met. This 3 part rendering encapsulates the following: 1) fact 2) judgement and 3) time. Fact - is the player in an offside position. Judgement - is the player judged participating or interferring.

 

The time element is crucial in that one can not reasonably watch play, players, and positioning all at once at the moment the 3 offside infraction elements are met. As the second link shows, the instant the infraction occurs is the time element, and it can be instant from when the ball is played.

 

This is why there is a referee with specific duties the LOTG requires. The key feature of the ARs senses is not sight. It is sound. The AR discerns the ball playing to a player by hearing the sound of the ball. THe infraction is at the time the ball is played. You might find the player 10 yards down the field when the ball is there, but the moment of judgement is when the ball is played.

 

Historically, in the early years of soccer, with no offisde law, referees were off the field. As the offside law evolved over the years, it became paramount that the diagonal system of control, which uses 2 ARs and a CR is superior to any one person off the field making a call. The judgement for offside is more than merely identifying where the player is located.

 

The only way these three are accurately met comes from an official that is properly lined up with the 2LD or ball which ever is closer to the goal. Offside calls are about angles.

 

If you are not exactly lined up with 2LD or ball, you will get it wrong guarenteed. And if you are tracking the official during the game, step by step, you are missing a good game, and the point.

Edited September 15, 2010 by socref1

[CHAMPDDS]

SOCREF 1- Excellent !

 

I am tempted to copy this, print it out and hand out to the parents of BOTH teams before each game....

 

D

[Canesoverhere]

All great information. I agree this should be handed out to every player, crowd member and the linesman.

 

Unfortunately, in both situations the linesman was not in a position to make the correct call. The person who was in the position (an official attending the game as a parent) was.

[socref1]

All great information. I agree this should be handed out to every player, crowd member and the linesman.

 

Unfortunately, in both situations the linesman was not in a position to make the correct call. The person who was in the position (an official attending the game as a parent) was.

Maybe the linesman should hand the flag over to the parent if that is the quality you find in Memphis. But I still attest, the parent is acting as a parent and it would be improper for him or her ethically to comment one way or another on a supposed call out loud to impugn the ARs crediblity. Also the CR could overrule but usually I go with the ARs decision. Again, even if the AR was out of position, there are "cheats". I like football field lines as a point of reference but it takes practice to do it correctly. Usually on a breakaway if they are offside by a step, I'll let it go because its good attacking soccer.

[socref1]

SOCREF 1- Excellent !

 

I am tempted to copy this, print it out and hand out to the parents of BOTH teams before each game....

 

D

Go for it. I don't pretend to know the answers and often seek out those wiser and much more knowledgeable. Plus you will be amazed what you can find with a good Google search. My involvement on this forum as socref is to try and educate, understand and improve. I learn too. I learn that people have different points of view and as a parent of a player myself, have worn that hat on occasion. I am not full of myself to say I do not make mistakes. Some of my best learning has been from the most heinous mistakes. The difference is that I try and apply the lesson learned and come back stronger. Will I ever get it right? Probably not. But I will try to get it right, and that is all I can offer. I get yelled at, and called every name in the book. But I realize its not me personally they detest. I can assure you that I am my own worse critic because I have a high standard. Some people don't like the official as an entity. I personally am not an authority figure in my life. I see refereeing more like part lion tamer, part orchestra conductor. I do not like being the cop. But sometimes it has to be the role.

[Canesoverhere]

All good info. I think if YOU were the center of a match, this wouldn't be an issue. Despite the same color kit, your brotherhood doesn't carry the themselves the same way. There are many who can't keep up with the female forwards, let alone the males. My protests are in heart to improve the game. I have said it once, I have said it ten times and it is much more true of the girls game. This sport has improved dramatically over the past 5-10 years. Many teams are now fielding 11 players who have been playing organized club soccer since they were toddlers. The physical condition as athletes of these young ladies is amazing. They practice, condition, & diet 365 days a year.

 

This isn't true of all but more than you would want. Lineman show up to a match that can't match the players on the pitch. They try to earn $ for both JV & V matches and frankly are winded after the first half of the JV match. They try to compensate by playing the angles and eventually the off-side calls become bad. Bad is okay, it is when it changes the end result of the game that it isn't fair to the players. That's my beef. I have nothing against anyone, I have a major problem when the players are cheated.

 

Yes, I have a lot to learn too. I take in a lot of games per week. SR1, you may find this hard to believe but I am silent on the pitch. Never utter a word. A smile sometimes but nothing will change the call, or should.

[socref1]

All good info. I think if YOU were the center of a match, this wouldn't be an issue. Despite the same color kit, your brotherhood doesn't carry the themselves the same way. There are many who can't keep up with the female forwards, let alone the males. My protests are in heart to improve the game. I have said it once, I have said it ten times and it is much more true of the girls game. This sport has improved dramatically over the past 5-10 years. Many teams are now fielding 11 players who have been playing organized club soccer since they were toddlers. The physical condition as athletes of these young ladies is amazing. They practice, condition, & diet 365 days a year.

 

This isn't true of all but more than you would want. Lineman show up to a match that can't match the players on the pitch. They try to earn $ for both JV & V matches and frankly are winded after the first half of the JV match. They try to compensate by playing the angles and eventually the off-side calls become bad. Bad is okay, it is when it changes the end result of the game that it isn't fair to the players. That's my beef. I have nothing against anyone, I have a major problem when the players are cheated.

 

Yes, I have a lot to learn too. I take in a lot of games per week. SR1, you may find this hard to believe but I am silent on the pitch. Never utter a word. A smile sometimes but nothing will change the call, or should.

I am over 3x some of these players ages and over twice their weight. Do I keep up? Not like I used to. Do I understand where I need to be and be in the right position? Yes better than when I was in better shape. Sometimes the game doesn't require full on sprints. We learn as we get more proficient its not about the fitness more about the reading play. The referee fitness you desire for everyone will not be there with older adults that break down like me. I would rather have a referee than none at all. Someone once said if you want to solve a problem, start with yourself. I do not believe you are a referee. I would suggest maybe you consider getting qualified and showing people what true fitness should be. You think players are cheated because someone is out there collecting a check? It isn't fair to characterize all referees like that, and I will tell you the fittest referee in my area is a young 25 year old person that can run 3200 meters in 12 minutes. He wants that dual V and JV check because that is the only job he has. Still one should not rule out self improvement, even at my age.

[Canesoverhere]

I am over 3x some of these players ages and over twice their weight. Do I keep up? Not like I used to. Do I understand where I need to be and be in the right position? Yes better than when I was in better shape. Sometimes the game doesn't require full on sprints. We learn as we get more proficient its not about the fitness more about the reading play. The referee fitness you desire for everyone will not be there with older adults that break down like me. I would rather have a referee than none at all. Someone once said if you want to solve a problem, start with yourself. I do not believe you are a referee. I would suggest maybe you consider getting qualified and showing people what true fitness should be. You think players are cheated because someone is out there collecting a check? It isn't fair to characterize all referees like that, and I will tell you the fittest referee in my area is a young 25 year old person that can run 3200 meters in 12 minutes. He wants that dual V and JV check because that is the only job he has. Still one should not rule out self improvement, even at my age.

Ya know, if these boards don't start heating up, you and I are going to have to charge everyone for this entertainment we provide and then donate to a charity. Of course, we will need to start a new running up the score thread to argue over which charity to donate to.