Couple of questions about D2 football?

[rollredroll]

I guess you missed the posts where rollredroll and Kwoodruff referenced the post where the Maryville bashing is taking place , didn't you ??!! I could care less about financial aid , believe me I'd much rather we all play together because I'm tired of people like you and your buddies always trying to find a way to put my school down . Maryville didn't make the rules , Maryville would gladly take on any of you guys just as things are . I say let all you guys play in 6A , and then we'll get to hear all your excuses when Maryville is still winning !

 

To be clear:

 

The link I posted was not intended to highlight a Maryville bashing thread. The link was to one post in particular in that thread (click it again and see where it lands) that talked about CAK and KCHS “manning up†by playing in DI, which, to a tee, was exactly what was referenced earlier in this thread (and posted days before the linked post) about how some people have no clue about financial aid. The post/link I made neither had nothing negative to say about Maryville (in fact, it didn’t have anything at all to say about Maryville), nor did it weigh in on which team/coach was better in my eyes or anyone else’s. I was jumped as if it did, though.

 

For me, my only remaining issue is the whole double standard about national polls/ratings. We’ve been this route before – if a DII school is alone, or ranked/rated higher, in a national poll/system, then it’s open season on questioning the validity of those polls/ratings – but put the shoe on the other foot and it’s “disrespectful†to question the same rankings/ratings. The MUS/Alcoa threads from late 2009 will indisputably show this is the case, and that’s just one example. The takeaway is this – not one side in these debates, whether it’s a team side and/or Division side, has the market cornered on taking swipes. For all of the concern about facts, it’s all right there for the viewing with a simple search, and I don’t see how any unbiased person would dispute that it occurs both ways. Heck, just look at the last sentence you posted – is that not exactly representative of the “imaginary football league†issue you have taken exception to in the past?

 

Honestly, it really hasn’t taken much restraint for me not to post this year. The whole annual debate just doesn’t bother me anymore. It’s driven by bias, there are no winners and losers, and, in the big picture, it’s just not worth it. If I had one issue this year, and to call it an issue would even be a stretch – a curiosity may be the better term – it’s a lack of understanding of the “relative lack of talent†rallying cry. Honest question – is there really any regular opponent, other than Alcoa (so that also excludes the occasional Melrose that shows up in the playoffs), that actually has had more talent over the last ten years than MHS? I know this year’s QB and C are going to UNC and Clemson. The TE from a few years ago was a freshman All-American at UT and potential All-American at Alabama this year before the offseason tragedy. There was a RB a few years before that who was a starter at Auburn, and a QB who signed with South Carolina around the same time. And that’s just to name a few. I’m sure there’s a resource to track DI signees, but William Blount and Heritage have not had remotely close to the signees that MHS has had, nor has West or Lenoir City. I can think of a couple of high-profile signees from Catholic (to ND and UT) and one or two from Farragut and Bearden (both to UT), but I just don’t get the “he’s a great coach and would be greater if he had more talent†argument. Throw in the teams in the region/district from the 4A days and it’s still the same question. No unbiased person would dispute he’s a great coach, but, in my humble opinion, a “he’s a great coach, but he has been blessed with good athletes†approach would carry much more goodwill weight, especially with those in MHS’s region. It’s not a sin or indicative of anything sinister to have good athletes in the school.

 

 

[pepvol]

leave it to pepvol to take a discussion about financial aid and use it as an opportunity to defend Maryville's honor. Do you think maybe its possible that he was linking the thread to point out some of the ridiculous perceptions some of your fans have about financial aid, and not to take a shot at Maryville? Just consider the possibility, pepvol.

 

You ever consider that maybe I'm not the bad guy ? I'm not for the watering down of TN football , and I'm not for avoiding the best competition there is . I really don't understand why you have any problem with me at all , then again I don't see why any DII Fan feels like they can't respect a team like Maryville , who probably has more in common with your team than any other Public school out there . I defend my school , just like you would yours if someone was on here saying things like "There should be an asterisk beside your Championships " .

 

Maryville and Alcoa owes the DII schools nothing ... yet they still reached out to try and make a game happen .... instead of appreciating that , a lot of you guys have whined about the terms , and decided to beat Maryville in the IFL (Imaginary Football League ) instead of a real game . If anyone from Maryville or Alcoa felt the way that you guys claim a bunch of Public schools feel about the Private schools , would we have reached out to you ?

 

If some of you guys were so much better than the Public school fans when it comes to being Gentleman and Scholars , you would give Maryville respect instead of quietly cheering on the DII fans who try to belittle Maryville's accomplishments and mention asterisk marks . It isn't hard for me to give Ensworth , BA , and MBA respect that they have earned , why is that so hard for so many of you DII guys ??

[KWoodroof]

You ever consider that maybe I'm not the bad guy ? I'm not for the watering down of TN football , and I'm not for avoiding the best competition there is . I really don't understand why you have any problem with me at all , then again I don't see why any DII Fan feels like they can't respect a team like Maryville , who probably has more in common with your team than any other Public school out there . I defend my school , just like you would yours if someone was on here saying things like "There should be an asterisk beside your Championships " .

 

Maryville and Alcoa owes the DII schools nothing ... yet they still reached out to try and make a game happen .... instead of appreciating that , a lot of you guys have whined about the terms , and decided to beat Maryville in the IFL (Imaginary Football League ) instead of a real game . If anyone from Maryville or Alcoa felt the way that you guys claim a bunch of Public schools feel about the Private schools , would we have reached out to you ?

 

If some of you guys were so much better than the Public school fans when it comes to being Gentleman and Scholars , you would give Maryville respect instead of quietly cheering on the DII fans who try to belittle Maryville's accomplishments and mention asterisk marks . It isn't hard for me to give Ensworth , BA , and MBA respect that they have earned , why is that so hard for so many of you DII guys ??

Read through my posts. I am nothing if not respectful of Maryville and its success. I've offered no qualification; I've simply said it's a great program with great teams. If watching this year's championship is any indication, their teams conduct themselves with a great deal of class. In other words, they're a pretty likable team to watch, especially if your team isn't playing them. Where I've said I'd like to see Maryville play some of the D2 schools, I've made it abundantly clear that my sole interest was to see a good football game, and not thinking Maryville would get some sort of comeuppance.

 

I've not entered the other thread, because it's just toxic. It's funny how there's such sensitivity to any slight at Maryville's honor, but no qualms at suggesting that Bowers is fairly limited in terms of coaching acumen, and certainly not fit to be mentioned with Quarles or Rankin. It's worth noting that Bowers took over a top flight program, and kept it there (like Quarles, as I believe the Maryville program has historically been pretty good). Bowers also built a program that is nationally ranked (not as highly ranked as MHS, but still ranked, with only 6 full varsity seasons). I haven't seen much respect for him over there.

 

You've said in another post, "I say let all you guys play in 6A , and then we'll get to hear all your excuses when Maryville is still winning !" Rest assured, it wasn't our request to have a Div 2. MBA has played at the highest classification for as long as there've been classifications. I have no official portfolio, but I think I'm on solid ground saying MBA would love to compete in 6A.

[pepvol]

He's not trying to diminish your program; he's simply arguing that you're wrong to diminish his.

 

So a guy saying all of our Championships should have asterisks beside them is not trying to diminish our program . Amazing how some can see no wrong when it's not directed at them .

[AllRegion]

rollredroll...on the topic of financial aid, I would have to say that the reason you don't hear the people of CoachT complaining that their local public school lost out on a 36 ACT student or a top-notch chess player to a private school is simple: this is a sports message board, with a large focus on football. It's not an academic message board, it's about football. Of course the posters on here are going to bring up football related issues.

 

Is that really such a bad thing, either? Sports are fun and there's nothing wrong with that. Being a fan of high school football is an enjoyable activity, and fans of the sport are naturally going to have an opinion when their public school loses out on a football player to a private school that offers financial aid.

 

I'm not arguing one side or the other in that debate as I have no dog in the hunt. However, would you want to buy a $6 ticket to watch an exceptionally bright high school student take the ACT's one Saturday morning? I highly doubt it, and that's neither an indictment on you as a person nor on what you think is important in life. On the same token, it's not such a sad commentary on the state of the world when CoachT posters don't make a stir about their public school's 36 ACT student choosing to leave for a private school.

[shakinthefat]

You ever consider that maybe I'm not the bad guy ? I'm not for the watering down of TN football , and I'm not for avoiding the best competition there is . I really don't understand why you have any problem with me at all , then again I don't see why any DII Fan feels like they can't respect a team like Maryville.

 

The month after the last high school football games of the season tends to be a period of reflection for most fans. To other fans it tends to be a boring time and things start to get "silly". Its the silly season now. Coach t football message boards seem to be vacant of quaility posters. So now you get people who want to rile up the DII boards. "You're a bad guy...no I'm not....you disrespect our program....no I didn't....you guys cheat....no we don't". Blah Blah Blah.

There will NEVER EVER be a public/private division in the state of Tennessee. That separation is complete. You can wish, hope and throw coins in the fountain, but ain't gonna happen...PERIOD.

I would like to see private schools provide scholarship money for the best athletes in Tennessee, recruit them to their respective school and play in a private school athletic association. Just totally separate public and private. Then Maryville, Riverdale, Alcoa and who ever else could just live peacefully. No more worries about who is more dominant. Totally separate! Maybe I'm being a little silly.

[baylorbigdog1976]

I think what gets lost in this whole debate is every kid in Nashville or America for that matter lives in an area zoned for a public school. So there is a group of fans of the Rutherford county schools (7aaa) who hate the privates in Nashville for two reasons. 1) They see kids who are zoned for 7aaa but playing on a number of private school teams in Nashville and they sit and ponder what their school would be like had the kids parents decided to send him to public school vs private. Naturally, they lash out at the school who took that kid away. In reality no one has rights to the kid other than the kids parents and it is up to parents to choose where we send our kids for their education which includes athletics. 2. The Rutherford county schools (7aaa-Smyrna, Oakland, Mt. Juliet, Riverdale) have a 4-19 record against BA, Ensworth and MBA over the past 20 years. I do give them credit for continuing to play the privates and they are always good games, but the fact is they have had little success in the head to head battles over the years. This is why you never see most of the schools that I just mentioned say anything about beating the privates in Nashville...they havent. You may see them mention the kids who leave that area to attend one of the private schools in Nashville, but that is and always will be the choice of the kids parents. I looked back and do not think Alcoa or Maryville has played any of the privates in Nashville over the last 20 years. The last game was Alcoa vs Brentwood Academy in 1989, so there is no recent history to discuss. And since both Maryville and Alcoa have won many state championships in the last 10 years it is natural to wonder how they would stack up against the private schools in D2. I understand why its hard for most people to have a healthy discussion of the matchups...same goes on with any rivalry in sports. Sports have always brought out the best and worst in some people. You will never get the average UNC fan to say anything nice about DUKE so why should anyone expect anything less from any level. I agree with one of the above post who says its not worth it even though on occasion a good heated discussion is ok. Where it crosses the line is when people start to call other people idiots for their views, or take shots at Ricky Bowers for not being able to carry George Quarles jock strap. Have a little more class and you will get that back in return.

Edited January 8, 2012 by baylorbigdog1976

[shakinthefat]

I do give them credit for continuing to play the privates and they are always good games, but the fact is they have had little success in the head to head battles over the years.

I also like D1 vs D2 matchups. The TSSAA is not in favor of public vs private matchups. One of the playoff tie-breaker qualifications is overall record. So why would a D1 team jepordize their playoff chances by playing strong D2 teams? A requirement forced on public schools by the TSSAA to seperate the divisions. The TSSAA then allows every D2 school in the playoff to satisfy the private schools. You will see public vs private but it will be a strong public vs a weak private or vice versa. Ensworth vs Oakland the last few years has been good for TN HS football, but I doubt it will continue.

Edited January 8, 2012 by shakinthefat

[rollbigred1]

Interesting article in the Nashville City Paper dated January 9, 2012, may shed some light on your question.