Distinct advantage(s) of Private Schools

[MakoRevised]

How did Ezell have so little success one year, then go undefeated and win a state championship the next? Simple, they recruit.

 

 

To quote Lee Corso, "NOT so fast, my friend.."

 

HOW exactly can you recruit if no one is interested in the football program? I mean, looking at the 2000 year, who wants to play for a 5 - 5 team who doesn't make the playoffs?

 

I suppose it's the coaching changes they made, and the money spent improving. Because if you look at any private school they have three distinct advantages over a public school:

 

 

 

1. They are a private school-

 

Parents only want what is best for their kids. If one has a kid that lives in a sort of rough-city area (knoxville, memphis), one may want to send him/her to a private school, to live a more sheltered life.

 

2. Location, Location, Location!

 

The talent pool where the private school is located can be key. Chattanooga, Nashville, and Memphis area privates always have pretty good talent.

 

3. Dinero/Moolah/other name

 

As mentioned earlier, money is key, for obvious reasons. Hire teachers, coaches, more football equipment, more money leads to a more attractive school. Parents like these qualities.

 

The best example of this, is the Christian Academy of Knoxville. They are pretty new to football. Last season they went 0 - 9, I believe. No wins. This year, they are 3 - 6 and have a shot, as slim as it may be, to make the playoffs. IMO, they are they 3rd or 4th best team in region 2, 1A, due to the way they've been playing recently. So what happened? MONEY. They hired former Bearden coach, Bill Young. They finally built their new football field. And they are located, where? Knoxville. One of the better talent pools in the state.

 

This makes you wonder if any private school has to recruit. Therefore, instead of thinking of ways to split both private and public schools up, think of, well, as lame as it sounds, more ways to alter the Private/Public schools themselves. A more likely thing to do is concentrate on money spending and budget balancing for Private schools. I don't know exactly how you could go about doing this, but it seems like a quality solution to the problem.

 

 

 

--Kemple

[Edited by MakoRevised on 10-27-02 6:21P]

 

[VolunteerGeneral]

Here`s what I think....

 

1. They are a private school-

 

This one makes no sense to me. You are giving reasons why you think private schools have an advantage and your first reason is that they are a private school? I`ll play along though. You name a private school in 1A or 2A that is really good in football and I`ll name one that isn`t. I bet I`m still naming teams long after your list has run out. TCA is a "private school". Where is the advantage?

 

Next...

 

2. Location, Location, Location!

 

Well it`s obvious that private schools will be located in more populated areas. Especially because of the requirements to get in one...money, smarts, behavior, and the willongness to attend one. But I don`t see where you can theorize or imply that city kids are any more athletic proportionately than rural kids. Genes don`t know if they are in a city slicker or a farm boy.

When you break down Madison County`s population of 90,000, you`ll find that half of their kids are eligible for school lunch programs. That gets you down to 45,000. take away at least 10,000 (conservative estimate) more who don`t qualify for school lunches but are still not well off enough to afford a private school and your down to 35,000. Then lop off those who don`t qualify academically and those who may be behavioral risks and another large chunk of people who would never consider a private school and you are easily down to population of around 20,000 who are bona fide candidates for a private school. Now divide that by the 3 schools that compete here and you can easily see how difficult it is to get kids. Now that you`ve found the qualified student, there is no guarantee that they are athletic because money, smarts, good behavior and just an overall interest to attend a private school does not make you an athlete.

 

Next...

 

3.Dinero/Moolah/other name

 

Such a misconception about private schools and money. Most people that I know are really stretching their means to attend there. Plus the ones that I am familiar with don`t spend that much money on sports. Do you realize the problems you`d have at a private school if you start spending all their hard earned money on sports instead of academics and technology? Most of their money comes from booster clubs just like every other public school. They get out and work hard at fundraisers to support their teams. Unlike public schools that have a whole town or county that has a vested interest in the local school, privates must rely on those in the direct school family. no one who has kids that attend a public school are going to be that willing to support a private schools athletics. Yes some private schools have nice facilities which include the sports end of it. But nice computer labs, gyms, theaters, etc... are there to attract onl athletes. They are ther to compete with other private schools in the area. When you look at the breakdown of Madison County from above you can see how hard it is to compete and survive. Besides the kids they get to attend their school are normally making a decision of which private school to go to, not between public and private.

And another point having nice athletic facilities doesn`t mean that you will be good in sports. You`ve heard the expression..."you can lead a horse to water...".

[MakoRevised]

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

Here`s what I think....

 

1. They are a private school-

 

This one makes no sense to me. You are giving reasons why you think private schools have an advantage and your first reason is that they are a private school? I`ll play along though. You name a private school in 1A or 2A that is really good in football and I`ll name one that isn`t. I bet I`m still naming teams long after your list has run out. TCA is a "private school". Where is the advantage?

 

 

I explained this. I don't really care to name any schools, because that wasn't my point. I understand that plenty of Private schools are terrible at football. But being a private school DOES have those advantages that I explained earlier. Private schools may take athletes away from the publics that tend to have problems with drugs, crime, etc.

 

 

 

2. Location, Location, Location!

 

Well it`s obvious that private schools will be located in more populated areas. Especially because of the requirements to get in one...money, smarts, behavior, and the willongness to attend one. But I don`t see where you can theorize or imply that city kids are any more athletic proportionately than rural kids. Genes don`t know if they are in a city slicker or a farm boy.

When you break down Madison County`s population of 90,000, you`ll find that half of their kids are eligible for school lunch programs. That gets you down to 45,000. take away at least 10,000 (conservative estimate) more who don`t qualify for school lunches but are still not well off enough to afford a private school and your down to 35,000. Then lop off those who don`t qualify academically and those who may be behavioral risks and another large chunk of people who would never consider a private school and you are easily down to population of around 20,000 who are bona fide candidates for a private school. Now divide that by the 3 schools that compete here and you can easily see how difficult it is to get kids. Now that you`ve found the qualified student, there is no guarantee that they are athletic because money, smarts, good behavior and just an overall interest to attend a private school does not make you an athlete.

 

Granted, it is incorrect to say that more athletes are city folks than country folks. Then again, that's not what I'm saying. Talent pool in large cities means you have more athletes to choose from, obviously. That's why 5A schools are generally better than 1A schools in athletics. That's why California is leaps and bounds over Tennessee in football programs. More people. Not necessarily better, but more. Though, in which some cases, more is better. Plus, if you have a Private school located in these big-city areas, you can refer back to #1.

 

 

 

 

3.Dinero/Moolah/other name

 

Such a misconception about private schools and money. Most people that I know are really stretching their means to attend there. Plus the ones that I am familiar with don`t spend that much money on sports. Do you realize the problems you`d have at a private school if you start spending all their hard earned money on sports instead of academics and technology? Most of their money comes from booster clubs just like every other public school. They get out and work hard at fundraisers to support their teams. Unlike public schools that have a whole town or county that has a vested interest in the local school, privates must rely on those in the direct school family. no one who has kids that attend a public school are going to be that willing to support a private schools athletics. Yes some private schools have nice facilities which include the sports end of it. But nice computer labs, gyms, theaters, etc... are there to attract onl athletes. They are ther to compete with other private schools in the area. When you look at the breakdown of Madison County from above you can see how hard it is to compete and survive. Besides the kids they get to attend their school are normally making a decision of which private school to go to, not between public and private.

And another point having nice athletic facilities doesn`t mean that you will be good in sports. You`ve heard the expression..."you can lead a horse to water...".

 

 

I understand about the facilities, but it DOES help, no? From my understanding, coaches from public high schools make far LESS than those at Private schools. Like I said earlier, Bill Young came out of retirement from Bearden to go to CAK. Now, one could say Mr. Young loves the sport of football, and just wanted to be back somewhere, but I'm sure the money offered to him helped his decision to come back a little. Generally speaking, private schools usually have more money than public schools. Maryville has a system in which if you live out of blount county, you have to pay a good chunk of money in order to attend. Why would people do this? Refer back to #1. Plenty of parents want their kids to go to Maryville.

 

Again, I say with all of these advantages, who needs to recruit? My main point is that instead of just splitting them up, TSSAA should find some way to alter these schools (just in the sports area) to where these advantages aren't a factor in sports performance. I attend a public school, but really can't side on a split or not. I think more changes within the schools themselves would be a better option. Instead of fiddling with the private schools this time, why not give public schools an advantage, you know?

 

 

 

--Kemple

[Edited by MakoRevised on 10-27-02 7:54P]

 

[Chakra20]

Posted by MakoRevised:

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

Here`s what I think....

 

1. They are a private school-

 

This one makes no sense to me. You are giving reasons why you think private schools have an advantage and your first reason is that they are a private school? I`ll play along though. You name a private school in 1A or 2A that is really good in football and I`ll name one that isn`t. I bet I`m still naming teams long after your list has run out. TCA is a "private school". Where is the advantage?

 

 

I explained this. I don't really care to name any schools, because that wasn't my point. I understand that plenty of Private schools are terrible at football. But being a private school DOES have those advantages that I explained earlier. Private schools may take athletes away from the publics that tend to have problems with drugs, crime, etc.

 

Yes that is a problrm with your system that needs to be fixed not an unfair advanatge a private has.

 

 

 

2. Location, Location, Location!

 

Well it`s obvious that private schools will be located in more populated areas. Especially because of the requirements to get in one...money, smarts, behavior, and the willongness to attend one. But I don`t see where you can theorize or imply that city kids are any more athletic proportionately than rural kids. Genes don`t know if they are in a city slicker or a farm boy.

When you break down Madison County`s population of 90,000, you`ll find that half of their kids are eligible for school lunch programs. That gets you down to 45,000. take away at least 10,000 (conservative estimate) more who don`t qualify for school lunches but are still not well off enough to afford a private school and your down to 35,000. Then lop off those who don`t qualify academically and those who may be behavioral risks and another large chunk of people who would never consider a private school and you are easily down to population of around 20,000 who are bona fide candidates for a private school. Now divide that by the 3 schools that compete here and you can easily see how difficult it is to get kids. Now that you`ve found the qualified student, there is no guarantee that they are athletic because money, smarts, good behavior and just an overall interest to attend a private school does not make you an athlete.

 

Granted, it is incorrect to say that more athletes are city folks than country folks. Then again, that's not what I'm saying. Talent pool in large cities means you have more athletes to choose from, obviously. That's why 5A schools are generally better than 1A schools in athletics. That's why California is leaps and bounds over Tennessee in football programs. More people. Not necessarily better, but more. Though, in which some cases, more is better. Plus, if you have a Private school located in these big-city areas, you can refer back to #1.

 

I really dont think there great 5a schools in Nashville in fact i would put Ezell up against them in a one game sutuation.

 

 

 

 

3.Dinero/Moolah/other name

 

Such a misconception about private schools and money. Most people that I know are really stretching their means to attend there. Plus the ones that I am familiar with don`t spend that much money on sports. Do you realize the problems you`d have at a private school if you start spending all their hard earned money on sports instead of academics and technology? Most of their money comes from booster clubs just like every other public school. They get out and work hard at fundraisers to support their teams. Unlike public schools that have a whole town or county that has a vested interest in the local school, privates must rely on those in the direct school family. no one who has kids that attend a public school are going to be that willing to support a private schools athletics. Yes some private schools have nice facilities which include the sports end of it. But nice computer labs, gyms, theaters, etc... are there to attract onl athletes. They are ther to compete with other private schools in the area. When you look at the breakdown of Madison County from above you can see how hard it is to compete and survive. Besides the kids they get to attend their school are normally making a decision of which private school to go to, not between public and private.

And another point having nice athletic facilities doesn`t mean that you will be good in sports. You`ve heard the expression..."you can lead a horse to water...".

 

 

I understand about the facilities, but it DOES help, no? From my understanding, coaches from public high schools make far LESS than those at Private schools. Like I said earlier, Bill Young came out of retirement from Bearden to go to CAK. Now, one could say Mr. Young loves the sport of football, and just wanted to be back somewhere, but I'm sure the money offered to him helped his decision to come back a little. Generally speaking, private schools usually have more money than public schools. Maryville has a system in which if you live out of blount county, you have to pay a good chunk of money in order to attend. Why would people do this? Refer back to #1. Plenty of parents want their kids to go to Maryville.

 

Again, I say with all of these advantages, who needs to recruit? My main point is that instead of just splitting them up, TSSAA should find some way to alter these schools (just in the sports area) to where these advantages aren't a factor in sports performance. I attend a public school, but really can't side on a split or not. I think more changes within the schools themselves would be a better option. Instead of fiddling with the private schools this time, why not give public schools an advantage, you know?

 

Also one last thing. Public School Coaches make more than private school coaches on the average. IN their teaching salarieds from Metro Nashville schools to a private school you would take a pay cut.

 

 

 

--Kemple

[Edited by MakoRevised on 10-27-02 7:54P]

[VolunteerGeneral]

I didn`t realize that Maryville took kids from out of their zone. Even if people have to pay money to send their kids across county lines, that is the same type kids that private schools get except they probably don`t have to pass an entrance exam (not that it would matter if they do) The point is that why aren`t people complaining about Maryville? Do they not have an advantage over other public schools whose systems don`t allow them to do this? The last time I looked Maryville was undefeated and ranked #1 in 4a and their fans were bragging how their team was ranked in a top 100 nationwide poll. Again the hipocracy is just overwhelming. My school JCM will be a 4A team next year and they`ll be in competition with Maryville who can get athletic rich kids from surrounding counties. Should I start whining like so many on here?

 

Another point about money...It is only limited by local communities. Just like private schools, public schools are free to spend as much money as they want to. They are only limited by how much they demand their local school board to spend and by how much they are willing to get out and work to raise funds. I read on another thread that the Portland community raised over 40,000 dollars to spend on championship rings for the football team. Some public schools can`t stand the fact that a few private schools are outworking them in the money department.

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 10-27-02 8:23P]

 

[MakoRevised]

I explained this. I don't really care to name any schools, because that wasn't my point. I understand that plenty of Private schools are terrible at football. But being a private school DOES have those advantages that I explained earlier. Private schools may take athletes away from the publics that tend to have problems with drugs, crime, etc.

 

Yes that is a problrm with your system that needs to be fixed not an unfair advanatge a private has.

 

 

I never said it was unfair, but it does need to be fixed. Then again, if a public school worked extremely hard to correct these standards, then parents wouldn't have to shell out 1,000s of dollars to take their kids some place else.

 

 

 

Granted, it is incorrect to say that more athletes are city folks than country folks. Then again, that's not what I'm saying. Talent pool in large cities means you have more athletes to choose from, obviously. That's why 5A schools are generally better than 1A schools in athletics. That's why California is leaps and bounds over Tennessee in football programs. More people. Not necessarily better, but more. Though, in which some cases, more is better. Plus, if you have a Private school located in these big-city areas, you can refer back to #1.

 

I really dont think there great 5a schools in Nashville in fact i would put Ezell up against them in a one game sutuation.

 

 

Now, I'll be the first to say that I'm not too keen on the Nashville area. But um, region 5 in both 5A and 4A are very good. Region 5 with Gallatin and Beech, 4A with overton and Hillsboro. Fact is, more people generally mean, more athletes. The ratio stands, and the math will eventually catch up with you.

 

 

I understand about the facilities, but it DOES help, no? From my understanding, coaches from public high schools make far LESS than those at Private schools. Like I said earlier, Bill Young came out of retirement from Bearden to go to CAK. Now, one could say Mr. Young loves the sport of football, and just wanted to be back somewhere, but I'm sure the money offered to him helped his decision to come back a little. Generally speaking, private schools usually have more money than public schools. Maryville has a system in which if you live out of blount county, you have to pay a good chunk of money in order to attend. Why would people do this? Refer back to #1. Plenty of parents want their kids to go to Maryville.

 

Again, I say with all of these advantages, who needs to recruit? My main point is that instead of just splitting them up, TSSAA should find some way to alter these schools (just in the sports area) to where these advantages aren't a factor in sports performance. I attend a public school, but really can't side on a split or not. I think more changes within the schools themselves would be a better option. Instead of fiddling with the private schools this time, why not give public schools an advantage, you know?

 

Also one last thing. Public School Coaches make more than private school coaches on the average. IN their teaching salarieds from Metro Nashville schools to a private school you would take a pay cut.

 

 

Okay. I just happened to hear that the Coach from Baylor makes in the $80,000, and doesn't teach. Of course, that's in Chattanooga, but it's still happens to be a private school, and I'm sure the amount of money doesn't just apply to Div. II privates.

 

 

 

--Kemple

[MakoRevised]

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

I didn`t realize that Maryville took kids from out of their zone. Even if people have to pay money to send their kids across county lines, that is the same type kids that private schools get except they probably don`t have to pass an entrance exam (not that it would matter if they do) The point is that why aren`t people complaining about Maryville? Do they not have an advantage over other public schools whose systems don`t allow them to do this? The last time I looked Maryville was undefeated and ranked #1 in 4a and their fans were bragging how their team was ranked in a top 100 nationwide poll. Again the hipocracy is just overwhelming. My school JCM will be a 4A team next year and they`ll be in competition with Maryville who can get athletic rich kids from surrounding counties. Should I start whining like so many on here?

 

 

Maryville is the only City school in Blount County (You have Hertiage, William Blount, Alcoa. There is also a Maryville Christian School,a private, but I'm not to sure what all it has to offer), so that probably has something to do with it. My school, Greenback (which unlike Maryville, is a county school), accepts out-of-county students (many of which would otherwise go to William Blount. But again, many people dont want their kids to go there, because of the reasons I explained why parents want their kids to go to private schools), but we are also facing overcrowded-ness. The only difference in Greenback and Maryville, though, is that I don't believe we can reject students who live out-of-county. Although, I'm not sure Maryville can either. There are certain rules, however, for Greenback, like if out-of-county students miss an alloted number of days, they can't attend, or something along those lines.

 

 

Like I said, even with me going to a public school, I still feel as if I don't have much of a dog in this fight. It's true that Public schools like Maryville seem to suffer from the hypocrisy bug, but yet, they're not the small 1A/2A schools that have to have the go-arounds with the privates. I think people need to delve into this more than just deciding on splitting the two factions up.

 

 

 

--Kemple

[Edited by MakoRevised on 10-27-02 8:42P]

 

[VolunteerGeneral]

Mako....I totally agree with you. My feeling is that most of this talk has been flamed by people who simply have a resentment towrds private schools. I`m not opposed to changing the system. If there is something that works better, then let`s do it. But let`s be honest and look at all schools. Things will never be fair for all schools no matter how you slice it up (unless you want to have about 50 diffrerent state football champions...LOL) If you want to divide schools up by how much money they spend on their programs, then do it. If they want to divide schools up by how large an area they get their kids from, then do it. If they want to divide schools up by how good their teams actually perform (some sort of merit-based system) then do it. But to summarily oust private schools because a few of them are doing too good is the most idiotic stupid thing that I have ever heard of.

[imasoftballer]

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

I didn`t realize that Maryville took kids from out of their zone. Even if people have to pay money to send their kids across county lines, that is the same type kids that private schools get except they probably don`t have to pass an entrance exam (not that it would matter if they do) The point is that why aren`t people complaining about Maryville? Do they not have an advantage over other public schools whose systems don`t allow them to do this? The last time I looked Maryville was undefeated and ranked #1 in 4a and their fans were bragging how their team was ranked in a top 100 nationwide poll. Again the hipocracy is just overwhelming. My school JCM will be a 4A team next year and they`ll be in competition with Maryville who can get athletic rich kids from surrounding counties. Should I start whining like so many on here?

 

Another point about money...It is only limited by local communities. Just like private schools, public schools are free to spend as much money as they want to. They are only limited by how much they demand their local school board to spend and by how much they are willing to get out and work to raise funds. I read on another thread that the Portland community raised over 40,000 dollars to spend on championship rings for the football team. Some public schools can`t stand the fact that a few private schools are outworking them in the money department.

[Edited by VolunteerGeneral on 10-27-02 8:23P]

 

Do you really think it is the school board's place or job to fund athletics? I would hope they would be rasing money to pay under paid teachers in rural areas, to buy new books, to hire new teachers to decrease school size. I really hope that if they work extra hard that the money rasied does not go to athletics. That is what booster clubs are for!

[VolunteerGeneral]

softballer...I think it`s the board`s decision on how many coaches they are willing to pay. I think Ela said that Celina only has two fulltime paid football coaches. That in itself puts them at a diadvantage, but it does not mean that you can say other schools that have more coaches have an unfair advantage. An advantage...yes. But it isn`t an unfair advantage if school systems have the right to jire more coaches and won`t do it. And yes, it is up to the local school board to fund such projects as facilities. Whether they need new ones or have facilities that need capital improvements, that should fall under the school board. Booster clubs can and should be responsible for training equipment, uniforms, etc...

[imasoftballer]

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

softballer...I think it`s the board`s decision on how many coaches they are willing to pay. I think Ela said that Celina only has two fulltime paid football coaches. That in itself puts them at a diadvantage, but it does not mean that you can say other schools that have more coaches have an unfair advantage. An advantage...yes. But it isn`t an unfair advantage if school systems have the right to jire more coaches and won`t do it. And yes, it is up to the local school board to fund such projects as facilities. Whether they need new ones or have facilities that need capital improvements, that should fall under the school board. Booster clubs can and should be responsible for training equipment, uniforms, etc...

 

Facilities, (I assume you mean fields) does not make teams better. The good teams play well in cow pastures. I don't think (and I maybe wrong) that a school board is going to build indoor facilties for a softball team or baseball team. The team would have to fund such things. They build school facilties to be used by the whole school.(other than fields) Public schools can not just hire coaches. They hire teachers who coach. It is a shame that schools put more into their sports program than into their education program. Especially with the great pay difference between rural school's teachers and larger metro area teachers.

 

With all this said, I don't try to use money as an agrument anyway. See post under "Arguments???"