Any Opinions?

[Guest play]

The TSSAA has tabled the topic of allowing players to

participate in independent event play during the TSSAA official season.

 

This continues to be an issue for players that participate

in select soccer, club teams, etc. and is a source of major

conflict between HS coaches and Club coaches, but mostly

for the players and the families.

 

Any opinions on this topic?

 

Thanks!

[idlwhs]

Coaches fight and the players suffer. Its difficult enough to be noticed by a Division IA team when you're in one of a handfull of states that play spring soccer. Not being able to attend spring club tournaments only adds to the problem.

[chxian]

Does anyone on this board know why the boy's play in the spring? Is it because so many schools may only have one person competent to coach the sport and by splitting the seasons that person can coach both teams and/or is it to free up field goal kickers for football teams in the fall OR is it for another reason(s)?

[trackman]

Possibly all those reason, plus so many neighboring states (VA, SC, GA, AL, MS) play in the spring. There are advantages and disadvantages.

High school athletes are not allowed to compete in independent sports in the same season - in anything other than running and golf. And it should stay that way for the benefit of the athletes. If soccer starts allowing it, then watch out for AAU basketball to begin at Christmas and Legion baseball to begin around March 1.

[Guest play]

Replies to Chxian and Trackman:

 

Trackman, I'm not sure that I would totally agree. I really

believe it could be allowed, however in a limited fashion.

 

In soccer for instance, there are some major tournaments that will never be played by TN high school players due

to their "in season" TSSAA rules. Does it hurt the player,

maybe, maybe not....I really believe it should be a decision

made between the player and the coach, however with TSSAA

limiting the # of events and/or dual training sessions.

 

My concern is that if TSSAA does not compromise, the quality of high school soccer may disappear in time. There

are a growing number of alternatives to high school soccer

in terms of league play that pose a major threat to the high

school programs.

 

After all, a serious player knows that 99% of the recruiting

is done at major "club/select" tournaments.....not high school games.

 

I believe the high school side is important to the young players as part of their "fitting in" to their social/school

environment. School spirit and competition is important.

One father that I know, despises HS soccer due to the style

of play and risk of injury from athletic, yet less skilled

players.

 

So I guess that I'm hoping for a compromise of sorts.

 

CHXIAN- high school soccer in the Spring for boys is driven

by the importance of football in TN. The fear of losing great rb's or athletic players created the Spring season at

the expense of baseball.

 

Due to facilities, the girls play in the Fall.

 

Relative to qualified coaches--most high schools struggle to find one qualified coach, let alone two. I think this will change in the next 5 to 10 years as more local kids

get through college, they'll be back to coach...you see it

beginning now.

 

 

[trackman]

play - your response was both on-target and courteous. I think we agree in general, but differ somewhat on participation outside high school. I understand your points and they're valid: visibility of players at club tournaments, etc.

My reasoning is based on the idea that I don't like seeing kids pushed and pulled. The rules on soccer outside the season have been driven by coaches, some of whom have broken simple rules over a period of time, therefore causing TSSAA to step in - at the request of parents and high school coaches.

In some ways, it might be best for the sport because there might be two leagues going on simultaneously in the spring: high school and club. Both schools and clubs have different things to offer players. So, more players would be playing, by necessity. Then the players could decide the competition in which they would like to play. But realisitically, I don't think that would happen - because of adults. Coaches.

[Hoya]

With 95% of college soccer scouting and recruiting occuring at either high quality club tournaments or high level league events (e.g. USYSA Region III Premier League or the Super Y League), it is a real disservice to our state's top soccer athletes to continue the TSSAA rule without modification. For example, girls in Tennessee who choose to participate on high school teams are denied the opportunity to ever play at the top college recruiting event for women in the country, the WAGS tournament, after the age of 14. Boys in Tennessee never have the chance to compete in the Dallas Cup or other highly significant Spring college showcase events. Why? Apparently because TSSAA believes it has the right and the need to limit players' activities during non-school time for no really good reason other than to protect high school programs from competition. Several States have already begun to change similar restrictions. Several states are now allowing outside play with club teams during the season. I also understand that Texas' analogous rule was recently set aside as a result of a lawsuit. If TSSAA doesn't become more flexible, the choice is likely to either be someone else's before too long or the best players will at least consider not playing high school ball in favor of club soccer's superior training, competition and recruiting opportunities. Concerns about the effect lifting the ban would have on basketball and baseball are interesting and of concern, but distinguishable. Colleges recruit regularly at the high school level in those sports because the level of coaching and high school play in those sports is already, generally, competant. Adequate facilities for those sports exist at nearly every school. In soccer, very few high school teams have sufficient numbers of quality soccer players to even compete with an average First or Second Division club soccer team. The skill levels are really different and, while there are numerous good reasons to promote participation by the kids in high school athletics, the development of improved soccer techniques and tactical training is not one of them in the great majority of Tennessee's high schools. Many (most?) high schools don't even have real soccer fields. Moreover, it's hard enough to even find a coach capable of organizing a high school soccer team, much less than one capable of training players at the level of even an average club coach (who, in turn, are banned from high school coaching of their club players by TSSAA-another short-sighted policy left over from other sports). I really hope TSSAA will give this issue a serious look and not just slough it off because that's the way football, baseball and basketball are handled. There is a real difference between these sports. What is the real harm in allowing dual participation in soccer, anyway?

[trackman]

Overparticipation - too many demands. Be realistic. Anybody with a modicum of experience knows what would happen.

I do agree that the students should have a choice: club or school.

The goal of high school sports is not to create college or professional athletes; however, from the media coverage that appears to be. Nor is it to elevate soccer to another level of play.

[Guest copamundial]

Coaches leave things alone! If I want to play soccer now, I can play. Club and school. Yes, I can't play club in the spring, but so what.

I don't have to play high school. I can sit out this spring and play on another team in another league. And if there are enough of us high schoolers sitting out, we can form our own team and our own league and play each other. That would be a lot of work tho. And it might take a lot of time. So maybe I'd be out of high school before any college coaches offered me big deals - so it wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

How many soccer players (male) are playing in college now on full rides? 9.9 per D One school. And how many players are there on a squad? What a stupid investment in time and energy if your goal is to get a college soccer scholarship to play soccer. My coach told us my freshman year that it would be more realistic if our parents had saved all the money they spent on camps and put it in a fund for college.

 

Who made soccer so inviolable anyway? "Raising the level" makes it sound more like a way of life.

[Hoya]

Trackman, I know overparticipation is a concern, and I certainly have seen kids pulled between scholastic soccer and club soccer by their respective coaches (big problem in middle school a few years ago). This is a huge problem for all of our kids with multiple activities-not just sports. Sometimes I feel like a logistics manager rather than a parent but the days of sandlot games are, sadly, gone.

 

I think some, limited, accommodation needs to be made to allow top level Tennessee soccer players to hit at least one of the big showcases each season. I know the primary goal of scholastic sports isn't supposed to be the creation of elite level players. If it was, very few top soccer players would play high school soccer. These kids play to be a part of the school community and, importantly, I think they play to enjoy their sport in a less stressful environment than club competition.

 

But the serious players are being required to pay too heavy a price to represent their school if they must forfeit any chance to attend events like the Dallas Cup or WAGS because of this limitation. Why not set aside a window of 10-14 days each HS season when club players could prepare for and attend one of these events with their club team? Surely the coaches could get along for that period of time. I think, having coached both club and high school, it's really important to note that club teams usually practice only 2 or 3 times each week for, generally, ninety minutes while high school practices are generally 5 days per week for 2-21/2 hours each at most schools in our area. Surely, the HS coaches could give up a little time for a two week period to give their kids a chance to experience the top level of competition in their sport.

 

Finally, Toro, you are absolutely right about the risks of pinning all of your college hopes on a purely soccer scholarship, especially at a DI school. They are pretty rare. Yet, being recruited to play the college game is a very realistic goal, especially if you are willing to look at smaller schools. Dedicated soccer players can often distinguish themselves in competition for partial and even non-athletic grants because of their dedication and excellence in their sport IF they've also taken care of their grades. Last Spring, twelve of the fifteen players on the U-18 boys SMSC Arsenal '84 were recruited to play college soccer at some level from NCAA DI to DIII to NAIA. All 12 were substantial scholarship recipients in some form-obviously not all purely athletic; however, their dedication and soccer skills paved the way, in some respect, in each case. I'd bet the exact same thing occurred on the Memphis Rangers, Nashville FC, Music City Sting and the other top level D I teams.

 

Being available for recruiting opportunities is very important in any sport. In soccer, contrary to many of the established high school sports like football and basketball, that venue is simply not on the high school field.

[chxian]

Hoya75,

 

Thanks for the details of your opinion. Though you are on the right track regarding several areas for improvement in the high school arena, your pro-club bias shows clearly and IMO taints the message.

 

Let me give you some specifics:

1. Name 1 high school player that has not received a scholarship or grant because they played high school soccer in lieu of being available for a Gold Level tournament (and by the way, there are many including Dallas, Raleigh and San Diego that occur outside of the high school season). Along those same lines, name 1 college D1 program that doesn't attend multiple Gold tournaments. Also, wasn't WAGS cancelled this year due to the sniper incident in DC? Surely those coaches had to go to one of the other tournaments to evaluate the talent.

2. You also seem to have bought into the myth that high school soccer can't be at the same level as D1 or D2 club soccer. The top high school teams have club players all throughout their rosters and could compete and win against top D1 club teams (of course this will never happen since these players can't play for 2 teams at once!) Now if you coached both club and high school you have to know your statement just isn't completely accurate.

3. At the college level, playing year round soccer isn't necessarily the ticket for a scholarship. Many top programs, UNC women for one, are full of multiple sport athletes on their team because they recruit for fit competitors as much as for soccer talent.

4. My final point ties into #1 which is the fact that high school players have about 3 months together which leaves the clubs 9 months....I ask you hoya75 who really needs to "give up" something? Let the kids enjoy both the club and high school soccer experience but please don't promote legislating that the kids have to choose one over the other any more than they are already being pressured to do. If the TSSAA changes the rule it will open up an unnecessary can of worms.

 

Finally, toro you are a wise young man. Keep your perspective in focus like you seem to have it now.

[Guest copamundial]

Thanks Chxian. You know more about the tournaments and stuff and you're right on. I don't play club anymore because when I got to high school I decided to play other sports too and there were problems with time and studies - and MONEY!

And I know I wasn't the best player on the travel team too. It was made up of players from four different counties, but mainly Williamson. I see some of them at matches in the spring and we talk and have fun.

At my school we don't pay for our uniforms, bags, etc. I gues we do pay - in a way - by school fund raisers. Our bus is clean and gets us there without VCRs, but we only get to stay overnight once a season. Our coach doesn't pick players because their mothers drive vans.

 

I really liked soccer and still do, but as I get older I see some of the things that are being talked about: travel to tournaments ($$$), etc. And if you don't think it makes a difference, look at ODP and check out the average income of the families. There aren't many kids on the roster who qualify for free or redcued lunch at school.

 

These tournaments are a moneymaker for somebody just like college camps. Tournaments make it easier for cellge coaches. Also, it's cheaper to go to one place. I decided during high school that camps were terrific if you had the money. But they're designed for college coaches. Look at the way they're set up. Games, games, games. Coaches sit, watch, and evaluate So what the kids do is spend $300 or more to have a college coach watch them play.

 

Thanks again Chxian. When I first started high school soccer, I though t my coach was crazy but now that I'm close to graduation, he seems righter than he ever was. He once told us all to keep a journal of our first year of soccer and to go back and read it befroe the start of the next season. And then to keep it and read it five years later. I'm going to do that too. And before somebody goes nuts, no we don't win state championship, but I bet I'll remember the names of the guys I play soccer with in school. I've forgotten the names of most of the travel team guys already.